Prometheus (Post-release)

[Nwerke]

I get that she got the machine to operate on her even though it wasn't calibrated for females. And I understand that it was there for Weyland. I just didn't see the point.

Hokay!

Also, it was so expensive it seems rather stupid not to have files on female anatomy and calibration data.:facepalm

Thoroughly agreed. Manufactured tension; if the purpose of the scene was the gross-out factor then we'd have got that either way. It worked okay for me, though. A minor annoyance compared to some of the others I thought.

Why didn't the ship deploy orbital probes? How could they not know the composition of the atmosphere until after they were actually committed to landing?!? (Are the writers so ignorant they're unaware we've already sampled the spectra of exoplanets?!)

Did the writers really expect us to swallow the ship just STUMBLING across the place they were meant to go almost immediately? Or were we meant to think the planet was peppered with installations like that one?

My favorite critique on that scene is that all life came from some magical white guy from space. No matter what your race is, deep down we all come from a white man. Literally.

Yup. Get used to it. We are the Master Race. Sci fi proves it. Wahoo.

...seriously? This is what you're gonna fixate on? Ya know, I'm a white man. If I ever wake up in the morning and find my skin looking like *that*, I'm gonna break all speed records getting to a hospital.

They were colourless, literally. Translucent, even. And their features don't exactly look Caucasian to me - they could be said to be somewhat Negroid, or Olmec, or you-name-it, but ultimately they are not actually human. That facial structure doesn't exist.

Yutani is disclosed as a women at the end of AVP Requiem, Scott may go another way though.

Yeh, even if he gives us a female Yutani it won't be the same female Yutani, hehe.

 

[Nwerke]

I don't buy for a second that she is dead.

For me it was the "squelch" sound effect that was the clue. :lol

 

[JediG60racer]

I don't get this whole "Vickers is a robot" thing. Why would anyone even think that? Because of Ridley Scott and Blade Runner? People seem to think that she's even "more advanced than David", although David was specifically designed to emulate human emotions, to make him more human and easier for humans to work with. Vickers is the opposite.. she's less human than David. If they were trying to be all sneaky with android Vickers, wouldn't it have made sense for her to be more human and not less?

The fact that Janek asks the question was probably a wink to the fans about the Blade Runner controversy.

But I think it's far more likely that Vickers is simply a human that doesn't know how to be human. She probably spent very little time with Weyland growing up. Knowing Weyland, he probably had various models of android watching over her, so that was her role model. As others have mentioned, Weyland is far more interested in his "son" David than his own flesh and blood daughter, so it seems like she would want to emulate the things he loves in the hope of receiving some of that love. It's quite clear in the film that Weyland doesn't give a damn about her or what she wants, and more importantly, he shows her none of the affection he shows David. If he loves his artificial creations so much (and he clearly does), why wouldn't he show the same level of affection for Vickers as he does for David? Especially if she were the "more advanced" version?

My take:

There is obviously a struggle/tension between Weyland and his daughter. Unless he had her when he was 60+ years old, the age difference shown between he and her doesn't make any sense. She should be significantly older.

So two possibilities:

What does make sense is that the real Vickers is just as smart as he is, and much older, and she created her own "David" only hers was better. She gave it her own personality and directives, made in her younger image, able to carry out her commands while keeping herself safe back on earth or secluded somewhere, running the company via the puppet.

The "are you a robot" question would make sense to trigger a failsafe "prove you're not a robot" response from the android. In the case of Janek's question - maybe he knew she was, and figured he had nothing to lose by approaching the sex question. As ship's captain, he probably was privy to a lot more information about what was on the ship than he let on. Would he want to risk losing his command by propositioning the boss's daughter, or his direct boss? Not likely. But if he knew this Vickers here was an android, he may be able to get away with it.

Vickers may or may not have been stronger than David. I tend to think she was, and this intimidated him. David may also have been familiar with android Vickers' agenda or had prior experience with the real Vickers using android Vickers to achieve her agenda, separate and in competition with her father's agenda. Either way, there is tension between David as the loved son and Meredith as the rejected daughter.

So in this scenario, Weyland is not interested in android Vickers because he knows it's an android, and know his daughter's directives to this machine are at odds with his goals. For whatever reason, he can't reveal that this Vickers isn't really Vickers - probably some legal thing.

Another scenario possibility: his real daughter is dead, and he pulled an A.I. - trying to recreate his daughter in android form. He tried to put her personality into it, and her attitude and emotions. But instead he created some sort of Frankenstein's monster, and realizes it's not really her - just some dark version of her that opposes him. But he can't bring himself to destroy it because he's already lost the real Meredith. He rejects her.

Whereas David is crafted completely differently, to be subservient and pleasant, and created from scratch - David can be the son he wanted.

Lots of possible themes to delve into here.

And isn't that what a good movie should do?> Engage our imagination with possibilities?


So i'll enjoy the possibility that androids are a bigger part of this picture than we know at the moment for a fact. They obviously are a big recurring theme in most of the Alien movies, along with genetically engineered life.

 

[Noeland]

HBO has a Prometheus first look showing and is on HBO on demand. In this 12 minute promo, SRS calls David a replicant. I just had to grin.

 

[Kerr Avon]

Another Lindelof re-write.

Is that the case? I got the feeling the movie went through so many rewrites that some scenes lost their meaning. I mean why would an alien race create life on earth just to wait a million years before wiping them out? Seems like a pretty stupid plan.

 

[SpyderDan]

I get that she got the machine to operate on her even though it wasn't calibrated for females. And I understand that it was there for Weyland. I just didn't see the point. It didn't really do anything for the rest of the movie.

I think it served 2 points:

1) It was the 2nd big clue that Weyland was there, and that it was intended for him. Prior to that, we just had the scene with David taking orders from him in the hypersleep chamber, but it still hadn't been fully revealed until she ran into the room after the surgery. It also told us that the whole oppulent lifeboat wasn't actually for Vickers, but for Weyland, a clue that Vickers wasn't even supposed to be there (as we find out when she confronts her "father").

2) It added tension to the scene. She was desperate to get it out, we could see it moving around, and I was starting to wonder if it was going to make it's own way out before she could get the machine to do what she wanted it to do.

As far as the machine being calibrated for a male, I think that was just the computer's standard error message for why it didn't have a C-section available. It wasn't just that it was calibrated only for male patients, but specifically setup for Weyland himself. It probably had detailed scans of him, his complete medical history, blood type, allergies, etc., and was ready to immediately work on him if needed. All of a sudden, someone asked it to do a C-section, and it didn't compute.

 

[Kerr Avon]

As far as the machine being calibrated for a male, I think that was just the computer's standard error message for why it didn't have a C-section available. It wasn't just that it was calibrated only for male patients, but specificially setup for Weyland himself. It probably had detailed scans of him, his complete medical history, blood type, allergies, etc., and was ready to immediately work on him if needed. All of a sudden, someone asked it to do a C-section, and it didn't compute.

Okay. Question. If it was calibrated for a male, and clearly the good doctor was female.. then .. just where did it happen to pull that embryo out of? I mean, I'm guessing it was in her uterus, the alien DNA having been .. ahem .. deposited there earlier by her boyfriend. I'm thinking a machine calibrated for a man is going to have to deal with the fact there is an unrecognized organ there to cut into. As a clue, sure, but it seemed to get over the fact it was operating on a woman pretty easy to make a big deal out of it being calibrated for a man.

I paid matinee pricing for this movie, in 2D, and while I'm out $7.50, I think I am really only owed back $2.50 for the sloppy writing and inconsistencies in plot and issues.

 

[Kerr Avon]

Re: Prometheus- Review

Prometheus - Everything explained and analysed *SPOILERS* : movies

I'm sorry. I don't want to be spoon fed everything, but if it's necessary for viewers to read all of this to understand what just happened in the movie then Ridley Scott is a **** poor movie maker.

And really.

Space *****?

:rolleyes

 

[Clutch]

Re: Prometheus- Review

***** built my hotrod.

 

[ONEYE]

Since seeing the movie on Friday, I've read this thread, and others regarding the movie Prometheus. None of it has changed the fact that I enjoyed it. It made me think. Reading replies has only given me more to think about. The entire time I watched Prometheus, I was immersed in it. Not once did I think of my real life, worries, aches/pains. It gave me a much needed break from reality and that's what I was looking for when I went to see it. I suspend reality, and just take it in. I'm sad that so many are unable to do that and are analyzing while watching. I was looking at so many things on the screen. Oh, that would be cool to have, love the flame thrower, wish I could get a better look at the pistols they use, etc...

 

[Noeland]

And this is a must see in 3D. I hate 3D. I really like normal old 2D flicks. But this one, must see in good digital 3D.

 

[binkleywalker]

Eh, 8 bucks for 2 hours of entertainment isn't so bad.

And the surgery device is 300 years more advanced than what we have now- who can tell what adaptive properties it may have?

I had a bigger problem with Vickers trying to out run the crashing spaceship in a straight line from the ship. Like if you cut a tree down and run out the way it's falling. Take two steps to the left or right, like the other one did, and it misses you!

But again, for 8 bucks, I can let it go.

Brian

Okay. Question. If it was calibrated for a male, and clearly the good doctor was female.. then .. just where did it happen to pull that embryo out of? I mean, I'm guessing it was in her uterus, the alien DNA having been .. ahem .. deposited there earlier by her boyfriend. I'm thinking a machine calibrated for a man is going to have to deal with the fact there is an unrecognized organ there to cut into. As a clue, sure, but it seemed to get over the fact it was operating on a woman pretty easy to make a big deal out of it being calibrated for a man.

I paid matinee pricing for this movie, in 2D, and while I'm out $7.50, I think I am really only owed back $2.50 for the sloppy writing and inconsistencies in plot and issues.

 

[thebatfan]

For a prequel, they had a lot more advanced stuff than they had in Alien. But I guess when you make a prequel 20 plus years later it's to be expected.

Another thing, the "pilot" dies in the escape module and not in the chair like he or "it" was found in Alien, what gives?

 

[SpyderDan]

Okay. Question. If it was calibrated for a male, and clearly the good doctor was female.. then .. just where did it happen to pull that embryo out of? I mean, I'm guessing it was in her uterus, the alien DNA having been .. ahem .. deposited there earlier by her boyfriend. I'm thinking a machine calibrated for a man is going to have to deal with the fact there is an unrecognized organ there to cut into. As a clue, sure, but it seemed to get over the fact it was operating on a woman pretty easy to make a big deal out of it being calibrated for a man.

My guess is that is why she was forced to switch to manual override and use a foreign object removal program. My guess is also that it would scan for foreign tissue, ie either not organic or not a match to her tissue. I can't imagine why such a program would ever try to consider whether human organs belonged there or not.

That whole scene does require a fair amount of suspension of disbelief, and I'll grant that. It isn't the difficulties with the med-pod programming and function that bother me, though. The most valid points are her miraculous recovery.

However... it is the future. Who knows what amazing breakthroughs they have made. Look how far surgeries have come since the 1930s, and I would expect at least as much again by 2093. We could speculate that they have some sort of tissue re-generation, and the staples on the skin really only serve to strengthen the bind on the wound. Who knows?

At least Shaw showed trouble running around, and doubled over and grasped the wound a few times. We saw her pumping herself up with what I assume are pain killers, on top of the anesthetic the med-pod used.

I would also figure that she ended up very damaged inside as a result. It obviously wasn't a slow and careful C-section material, and then running around immediately afterwards numb to whatever damage she was doing by not allowing for a proper recovery. Who knows why she wasn't able to have children before, but she most certainly will never be able to after that.

 

[joeranger]

"My favorite critique on that scene is that all life came from some magical white guy from space. No matter what your race is, deep down we all come from a white man. Literally."

Come on, that's a bunch of horsesh-- Lando Calrission was a black guy. He got to fly the Millenium Falcon? (dives under chair)


Edit: in case you don't get the reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0VZj-85E5o

 

[ONEYE]

For a prequel, they had a lot more advanced stuff than they had in Alien. But I guess when you make a prequel 20 plus years later it's to be expected.

Another thing, the "pilot" dies in the escape module and not in the chair like he or "it" was found in Alien, what gives?

If you are going to post, please keep up. This is not the same planet.

Also, as far as the advanced stuff goes... this was a scientific expedition vessel, and Weyland himself was on it and the driving force.

The Nostromo was a mining ship. Probably a converted vessel. The suits they were using were also probably the cheapest they could safely use.

 

[gizmo]

Re: Prometheus- Review

"***** built my hotrod"


Its a love affair, ***** and my hotrod.

 

[gizmo]

Re: Prometheus- Review

Oh and I loved the film:love

Ben

 

[Mr Webber]

I thought the Alien timeline follows the Prometheus timeline, hence the Tri- Centenary patches on the Nostromo uniforms and the Company was Wayland/Yutani by then.

Was thinking that because the first Alien we see in Prometheus is rather superb looking with an almost serene expression, did this put some people off, expecting or preferring the Giger looking elephant version, maybe Scotts trying to impart that not all Aliens are gruesome in appearance.

 

[ONEYE]

I'm not sure of the timelines. Traveling the distances and speeds that they do in the filmz has to have implications that aren't fully explored in the movies. I think when Ripley escaped at the end of Alien, she was floating around in space for 60 years or so. Prometheus traveling for 2+ years at who knows what speed. When did Nostromo head out into space? Too much math for me to figure out.