Origins of the AA/SDS Armor

[vaderdarth]

Just because it's not earthshattering info to me doesn't mean I am not curious as to what the outcome is. I say knock yourselves out. I just want to make sure the process is above board.

My opinion is that if the SDS stuff strays from original pieces may just indicate that he had to resculpt or replace any missing pieces.

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't interesting.

Peace

 

[Clutch]

Going back to old posts, this is what GF has done:

Scratchbuilt:
belt
hand plates
shoulder strap
knee box piece

Modified:
removed ROTJ lip from chest plate and made regular lip
removed belly details from ab plate and made seperate pieces
made proper detail underneath the plates if sandtrooper version

 

[vaderdarth]

So by and large, the GF Abdominal armor is original........that is what I thought. At least that is what GF told me long ago.

 

[RKW]

Some initial observations......pics follow

Canistor comparison


Breastplate comparison


Breatplate button comparison


Forearm comparison


Knee comparison Not a bad likeness for a custom sculpt,


Now based on details such as the thighs, shins and ab plate alone this already tells me that the SDS armour is a ROTJ derivative. I also know its not from an original ROTJ because the short stumpy stem that runs up from the ab buttons is unique to the TE/GF molds. Both ANH and ROTJ had a long narrow stem. So that means that the SDS armour can only have come from the TE/GF armour which you could argue is the same. They originally differed only by the amount of clean up work done. Over the years TE has altered his armour to be more accurate.

What is also clear is that SDS has done its best to disguise their new armour after people initially called them out on recasting the GF/TE as evidence by the distinct differences between the old and new SDS armour. They have clearly had to make some custom sculpts. Why would you need to make changes at all if you have the original moulds?

 

[vaderdarth]

I disagree, your AB plate button comparison is a painting issue between what you call Old SDS and New SDS. I can see the raised portion of the button starts in exactly the same place on both pieces. I can understand how the pic might fool you though.

If he were missing certain bucks, he might custom sculpt some pieces to replace them. That's not so hard to understand.........especially considering he told a couple members he did that quite a while ago.

Dave

 

[troopermaster]

How anyone can say the SDS in not made from GF armour is laughable.

As usuall,with the evidence there on a plate,you still can't see it.....

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Just with a bit of tweaking here and there,you think it's not the same.SDS is ROTJ converted all day long and if you know anything about armour you would see that.You people are so gulable.....it's sad.

 

[RKW]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Jan 4 2006, 09:00 PM
I disagree,  your AB plate button comparison is a painting issue between what you call Old SDS and New SDS.  I can see the raised portion of the button starts in exactly the same place on both pieces.  I can understand how the pic might fool you though. 

If he were missing certain bucks,  he might custom sculpt some pieces to replace them.  That's not so hard to understand.........especially considering he told a couple members he did that quite a while ago. 

Dave

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It's not a painting issue as the correct position for the top button is to the left (as you look at it from the front). The original SDS version clearly goes to the right. Also the original SDS was wider.

 

[vaderdarth]

Originally posted by RKW+Jan 4 2006, 05:09 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RKW @ Jan 4 2006, 05:09 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-vaderdarth

@Jan 4 2006, 09:00 PM
I disagree,  your AB plate button comparison is a painting issue between what you call Old SDS and New SDS.  I can see the raised portion of the button starts in exactly the same place on both pieces.   I can understand how the pic might fool you though. 

If he were missing certain bucks,  he might custom sculpt some pieces to replace them.  That's not so hard to understand.........especially considering he told a couple members he did that quite a while ago. 

Dave

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It's not a painting issue as the correct position for the top button is to the left (as you look at it from the front). The original SDS version clearly goes to the right. Also the original SDS was wider.

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I respectfully disagree. Show me both parts without paint and I'll prove you wrong.

Peace,

Dave

 

[vaderdarth]

Originally posted by ANH trooper@Jan 4 2006, 05:07 PM
How anyone can say the SDS in not made from GF armour is laughable.

As usuall,with the evidence there on a plate,you still can't see it.....

:lol  :lol  :lol  :lol  :lol  :lol

Just with a bit of tweaking here and there,you think it's not the same.SDS is ROTJ converted all day long and if you know anything about armour you would see that.You people are so gulable.....it's sad.

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ANH Trooper, you're not baiting folks are ya???

Let's not forget that ALL armor from ROTJ and ESB came from the ANH suits.....which of course came from Andrew Ainsworth. Oh well, we can just keep ignoring this fact I suppose.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Originally posted by ANH trooper@Jan 4 2006, 09:07 PM
How anyone can say the SDS in not made from GF armour is laughable.

As usuall,with the evidence there on a plate,you still can't see it.....

:lol  :lol  :lol  :lol  :lol  :lol

Just with a bit of tweaking here and there,you think it's not the same.SDS is ROTJ converted all day long and if you know anything about armour you would see that.You people are so gulable.....it's sad.

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ANH Trooper, I dont think anyone here is saying that SDS could not derive (at least in part) from RotJ armour.

However I think most people will look at the pics above and say it doesn't come from GF since by all accounts the majority of the parts look significantly different. The Ab plate may look similar but the calves, shins, forearms, back, bridges etc. are clearly NOT the same.

Like I said before, the next stage is to compare it to Gino/TE but its NOT GF.

Cheers

Jez

 

[troopermaster]

But almost all the parts ARE the same as GF's...open your eyes and see for yourself.

AA has tweaked the moulds to make his suit look 'slightly different' that's all.

Why is it that the ab plate is ROTJ (just like all the rest of the suit) with an ANH plate suck on?

Why hasn't AA made four seperate shin sections and just have two same shins just like GF's?

:rolleyes

 

[vaderdarth]

ANH Trooper, with all due respect there are alot of areas of significance that simply do not match up with a GF suit. I think it's safe to rule out a GF suit at this point. Many of the items are not even remotely close. GH has posted pics of both, I can see clearly that they aren't even close in most respects. Most notable are the differences in the undersides of the "similar" pieces. Sorry but they just don't match up.

 

[troopermaster]

Well I knew you would say that.

All the main parts of the SDS armour match GF's.OK,they are not 100% same,but the overall shapes are but with a bit of modifying.

We know he has made new belt moulds,and we can see that they are bigger,same with the shoulder straps and belt boxes.

How you can say it is different is mind boggling.They are the same and you know it.I don't expect you or the other usuall crew to agree,as you never do.

 

[Jumpin Jax]

I just showed TE the pics and he is miffed. The evidence of the right thigh box knee is not of GF's.. It is a 100% copy of TE's knee made back when he was doing ROTJ suits. The facts are leading to the conclusion that AA/SDS may have copied an early unrestored TE suit and then made some minor changes. But the fact is clear as day: these are not left over 'skins' from ANH and has basically copied someone else. Once TE responds back to me with a photo of the knee plate I will post here.

ALso to put to rest the notion that GF was allowed to copy a screen used suit TE owned. DID NOT HAPPEN. GF was sent pulls from molds and his entire suit and helmet are 2nd gen castings off of TE's molds. (this comes from TE himself, not my words here, but his)

JJ

 

[OldKen]

:eek

looks like this meeting is on its way to being ajourned...

very interesting indeed.

and has no one ever considered the fact that the suit could be from multiple sources???

IE... some original, some from different propreplica sources, maybe so it couldnt be nailed down to one place???

i dont know why but i really would like to know the truth.

please share the pics asap JJ. :thumbsup

Originally posted by Jumpin Jax@Jan 4 2006, 06:29 PM
I just showed TE the pics and he is miffed. The evidence of the right thigh box knee is not of GF's.. It is a 100% copy of TE's knee made back when he was doing ROTJ suits. The facts are leading to the conclusion that AA/SDS may have copied an early unrestored TE suit and then made some minor changes. But the fact is clear as day: these are not left over 'skins' from ANH and has basically copied someone else. Once TE responds back to me with a photo of the knee plate I will post here.

JJ

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[RKW]

I own one of the original unaltered TE suits and I can tell you now that those shoulder bells look nothing like mine.

 

[Ghost Host]

I really don't care if you like it or not, ANH Trooper. Although I find your tone insulting, as I now happen to believe it is unlikely that the SDS suit is derived from the GF. In person it was just clear as day. Before I took the pics I was thinking it was likely recast, even my friends could tell you this is what I was thinking... but now I would be surprised to find that true. I respect you as an artist but your attitude stinks. So why would you insult me for believing this? Not cool "buddy". :rolleyes

Originally posted by ANH trooper+Jan 4 2006, 02:10 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ANH trooper @ Jan 4 2006, 02:10 PM)</div>

How you can say it is different is mind boggling.They are the same and you know it.I don't expect you or the other usuall crew to agree,as you never do.

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[/b]

No I understand. I think we're on the same page with this. It's just a hassle to pull it back out right now, as it's buried under a bunch of other things... just reorganized the space. There must be others who can contribute measurements etc?

<!--QuoteBegin-jeezycreezy@ Jan 4 2006, 12:02 PM

Edit: By crappy I meant poopy.  As in too bad, but understandable.  Someone PMed suggesting I was saying GH's help was crappy.  Quite the contrary.  He has been an enormous boon and I appreciate his contribution to this thread above all others.  I just wanted to clarify that in case any one else made the same mistake. 

 

[OldKen]

Originally posted by RKW@Jan 4 2006, 06:43 PM
I own one of the original unaltered TE suits and I can tell you now that those shoulder bells look nothing like mine.

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i could believe that AA had the moulds or at least original casts of the shoulder bells... even a few other pieces... TE didnt say they were his shoulder bells...

hmm... :unsure

 

[exoray]

I think everyone will agree that the SDS armour has NOT been cast off a GF set. I agree that more investigation can be done into other armour makers but its clearly not a GF recast.

I will only agree to this on certain parts, the AB section in my mind as well as others begs to a tweaked GF piece in a poor attempt to coverup a recast... I am VERY curious to see an earlier SDS AB plate as from what I can see it has be modified, probably because of previous post on this forum...

How can anyone look at the SDS AB plate and not see it's at least 95% identical to the GF one, with only easy to alter areas being the difference?

The verdict is still out though on several of the other parts, most interesting as there are a few variations of the TE suit, that seems to be being overlooked by some who want to quickly close the book, because the SDS suit is not a dead ringer for the GF...

And I will state this as a near fact as any, this is NOT from any ANH original molds.

IMO the SDS suit is composed of

1. A recast of an existing suit, be it original (ROTJ) or a fan made reproduction
2. Custom scuplts of some parts
3. Reworked recast parts

It's my belief that is order to confuse and attempt to draw away from an obvious recast issue a little of this and a little of that was done to make it look a little different...

 

[OldKen]

from all ive heard, i believe this as well flynn,

im wondering exactly what TE has to say about the knee plates etc...

whos to say there arent a couple GF pieces, a couple of early TE pieces, a couple original, and a couple fabricated...

ive thought that this line of thinking is the most pratical.

i dont see how anyone EVER believed that the entire thing was cast from original... let alone ANH moulds...

i just dont get it.

and i know there are alot of AA suporters, but come on guys youve got to see that theres no way in hades that this thing came from a complete set of original moulds. esp ANH ones.

Originally posted by exoray@Jan 4 2006, 06:49 PM

I think everyone will agree that the SDS armour has NOT been cast off a GF set. I agree that more investigation can be done into other armour makers but its clearly not a GF recast.

I will only agree to this on certain parts, the AB section in my mind as well as others begs to a tweaked GF piece in a poor attempt to coverup a recast... I am VERY curious to see an earlier SDS AB plate as from what I can see it has be modified, probably because of previous post on this forum...

How can anyone look at the SDS AB plate and not see it's at least 95% identical to the GF one, with only easy to alter areas being the difference?

The verdict is still out though on several of the other parts, most interesting as there are a few variations of the TE suit, that seems to be being overlooked by some who want to quickly close the book, because the SDS suit is not a dead ringer for the GF...

And I will state this as a near fact as any, this is NOT from any ANH original molds.

IMO the SDS suit is composed of

1. A recast of an existing suit, be it original (ROTJ) or a fan made reproduction
2. Custom scuplts of some parts
3. Reworked recast parts

It's my belief that is order to confuse and attempt to draw away from an obvious recast issue a little of this and a little of that was done to make it look a little different...

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