Rexermus

Active Member
Hey all,

Just a quick question: I've always looked at Obi-Wan's inner tunic & pants in TPM as being the same, if not a very similar, shade of cream as his outer tunic, tabards & obi while his AOTC inner tunic & pants were a very obvious off-white that contrasted with the cream tunic/tabards/obi. But after spending some time browsing Psab keel's awesome Thread Lair shop it seems that the difference in colour between both articles of clothing is so negligible that Psab sells the same gauze & brushed cotton for TPM & AOTC. Are they really that similar and my eyes have been playing tricks on me for 20+ years??
 
Just to give some context here are some reference images. Note that the color difference between the production stills and following it is the very same costume from Phantom Menace during the Power of Costume Exhibit: which is exactly how it appeared when I saw it in person back in 2016.


45bac43220e28f2d9feb801515ca79f4.png
TPMSkirt.jpg
STAR-WARS-NYC-exhibition-063-1.jpg




Then we have the AOTC version: Production stills and then a close up of the materials on a swatch card while on the same exhibit (albeit in a different city.)

AOTCCLoseup.jpg
AOTCObi-Wan1.jpg
AOTCRobOb.jpg
Behind-the-Scenes-Star-Wars-Costume-Exhibit.jpg


Studio lights wash out a LOT of color from these costumes. In terms of the color difference in person I used to carry a white crinkled cotton for the Episode 2 Inner tunic, but the reality is that it's more of a cream color based on these fabric swatches shown above, and when compared to the Episode 1 Inner Tunic it also appears to be an Ivory or Cream color. There isn't a whole lot of demand for Episode 2 Obi-Wan and if you go with a darker brown robe with the shoulder tucks you could easily use the same fabrics from Episode 1 to Episode 2. The Outer Tunic color for Episode 2 may have been a few points darker color as well, which makes the Inner Tunic appear almost white in certain photographs/ in the movie.

For color comparison I try my best to source materials that match what I see in exhibition photos. The difference between what a costume looks like on film vs. the reality can be stark. The Phantom Menace Obi-Wan stills compared to the exhibit photos and you could almost mistake them for two different costumes if you aren't looking carefully.

This is a more extreme example: Check out Padme's picnic dress from AOTC:

Production Still:

Padme 1.jpg


Reality:

Padme.JPG

padme1.JPG
 
Okay so it wasn't my eyes playing tricks...it was the lighting. CURSE YOU LIGHT! YOU LET ME SEE BUT THEN DECIEVE ME!


And realistically the colour of the crinkle cotton for the outer tunic/tabards/obi is fairly consistent through out all 3 Prequel movies? Maybe a light uniform "weathering" on the AOTC set perhaps?
 
The Outer Tunic color was pretty uniform throughout the trilogy though it was custom dyed for the production. This image shows a swatch before the dye process. This was from a Prop Store Auction a few years ago. Note the swatch is white in the bottom right corner.

490428_0 (1).jpg
 
I see. But for the "weathering" I meant for a cosplay/costume replica, would that throw off the colouring? Would a very light uniform grey "weathering" make the fabric you sell on Thread Lair look more like the Outer Tunic/Tabards/Obi do on screen and the production stills?
 
I've seen costumes on display at FIDM and still really don't know the "real" colours, which to me means the colour things look in natural outdoor light.

Indoor light is notoriously deceiving.

My personal experience (as you can see in my avatar) is the Dr Jones tweed suit. The suits (or suit) which have been on display look a pale tan, while in indoor shots in the film the suit colour varies from a deep brown to pale steel grey to taupe, but never the colour of the suits which have been on display.

Given this, the closest I feel I can get to the actual colour is how it looks in the film's shots done in outdoor natural light, for example the beach shots and the on-top-of-the-tank shots. In those, the tweed looks more tan than in any of the indoor shots, but darker than the on-display suits.
 
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I see. But for the "weathering" I meant for a cosplay/costume replica, would that throw off the colouring? Would a very light uniform grey "weathering" make the fabric you sell on Thread Lair look more like the Outer Tunic/Tabards/Obi do on screen and the production stills?

For the fabric I sell that's used for the Outer Tunic, it can easily be dyed given that it's a cotton/ linen blend if you want a different shade. You could also enhance the edges with a very mild wash of watered down acrylic paint for weathering. One thing to keep in mind is that the sheer/ loose weave of the real fabric (and my own) is that when you layer it on top of itself the color becomes more prominent. To illustrate this, here is a close up of the Episode 3 Tunic set where the upper torso is actually unlined and you can see the color of the tunic below it.

This was likely done to keep Ewan cooler with one less layer of material, especially given that the cloth tabards are double layered. Notice the "dickie" is brown, but the body of the tunic is cream colored, similar to the Outer Tunic. If the layer below was all brown, you would see that color "bleed" through the loose weave of the Outer layer. The first image shows the swatches from Episode 2, but notice how the brown of the cloak/ robe fabric "bleeds" through the sheer crinkled fabric of the Outer Tunic. The remaining photos show the Episode 3 Tunic layers.

Behind-the-Scenes-Star-Wars-Costume-Exhibit.jpg
InnerTunic Collar.jpg
ObiWan Inner Tunic Collar.jpg
ROTSCollarInnerT.jpg


One other interesting thing to note is that for Episode 3, I'm guessing they likely used black bias tape to reinforce the loose weave of the tabards and sash on the interior. Note that the edges of the tabards look just a tad darker, which means they are either airbrushed with subtle weathering to make the seams "pop" with a touch of color, but the more likely explanation is that when constructing them, they used bias tape. Note in the last photo that even under direct light, the edge of the tabard appears a touch darker, which leads me to believe that there is a darker layer sandwiched between the layers of guaze type fabric.

Bias tape is used to cover raw/ unfinished edges to either keep material from fraying (which this loose weave stuff will do without any finishing like serging or zig zag stitching) or to give a nice professional looking finish/ decorative finish to the edge of material. The other advantage of the bias tape is that it would help this loose weave to retain it's shape, yet retain some of it's stretch. Open weave fabrics, especially ones like the stuff they used for Obi-Wan's tunics, has a tendency to stretch. It drape beautifully given the looseness, but it can stretch out of shape which is a problem with all of the layers and their very structured cut. Bias tape on the interior would help prevent this, but also keep the fabric from unraveling, so it would serve a dual purpose.

I know those were long explanantions, but I hope that might help answer your questions.


Dr. Jones SR:


Color is notorious for shifting in different lighting conditions. I find that selecting fabrics that ride the line between two shades, say grayish brown for example, are the sweet spot you should aim for in many cases. Hans ESB jacket is the perfect example of this. It appears bluish, but in reality it's a charcoal gray with hints of steel blue. Though as you pointed out, ultimately you have to go with the color scheme that suits your eyes/ preferences and people often go with the way the materials appear on film. I've done the same on many occassions when I had little other reference, or like in your case, the references vary so drastically, you just have to select which looks best to your eye, balanced with whatever material you can source that looks close enough.

Something else I try to consider is how the material photographs under flash photography. As much as I like certain shades in person, if I'm taking pictures of my costumes with a flash, I could drastically alter the color by adding that burst of light. Sometimes I'll reject certain fabrics because they always read a shade I don't want. While I make the costumes to look how I want, I have to consider the photography because so much of the work needs to be shot for either illustration purposes, or for display, so that will often determine why I'll choose one material over another.
 
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Hmmm. So the construction of the TPM/AOTC outer tunic/tabards/obi is different from the ROTS set? In that the tunic isn’t lined and the tabards are folded over and biased taped to the back? Unless I’m completely misunderstanding
 
When I've got more time I'll make another post showing the differences in the Ep. 2 costume and then a third post on the Ep. 3 Costume, but for starters here are the difference between Obi-Wan's costumes throughout the Prequels.

The Phantom Menace:

Notable characteristics

Inner Tunic: Looser neck opening which lets the collar drape lower- exposing Ewan's chest ever so slightly. This was evident on Liam's Tunic as well. This is especially noticeable during the duel at the end of the film. Photos: A, B, G

Outer Tunic: Unlined Skirt. Photo: C Horizontal cut waist sash. Notice the crinkle grain is running across, not diagonal (bias cut) like it does in the later films. Photos: D, E

Robe: No shoulder tucks. Under arm seam (which is not visible in most photos but I saw with my own eyes when I saw the costume in person.) I was standing about 3 feet from it. I really wish that we were allowed to photograph that exhibit but they were very strict with a no photography rule. Photo: E Collar of the robe has visible stitching on the top vs. changes made in later films. Photos: A, C, E

Belt: Weathered. Photos: E,F

Photo A:

obi17.jpg


Photo B:

45bac43220e28f2d9feb801515ca79f4.png


Photo C:

TPMAction.jpg


Photo D:

Screen+Shot+2022-08-14+at+9.45.10+PM.png


Photo E:

STAR-WARS-NYC-exhibition-063-1.jpg


Photo F:


TPMBelt.jpg


Photo G:

OpenTPM Collar.jpg
 
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Just a reminder that the 2 pouches in the EP1 visual dictionary are two small pouches. Obi/Qui had two large pouches with covertec belt clips.

Yes, indeed! I should crop that photo as I was using it to show the details of the belt itself. I'll amend that now.
 
Psab keel janglesworthy holy this is a treasure trove of info for PT Obi-Wan costuming. Is the weathering on the TPM belt noticeably different from the AOTC belt? In Jangles' progression image I can't really make out any major differences, though the ROTS belt does seem a richer reddish-brown. Of course with the revelations that Psab brought up earlier I'm not sure I trust publicity stills for accurate colouring anymore
 
There are differences in the belts between films, both in weathering and color. When I've got some time this coming week I'll post more reference/ info. I've got interviews with Trisha Biggar archived in my folders which sheds more light on these designs and I can add those too.
 
There are differences in the belts between films, both in weathering and color. When I've got some time this coming week I'll post more reference/ info. I've got interviews with Trisha Biggar archived in my folders which sheds more light on these designs and I can add those too.
Please do :love:
 

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