New Profiles In History catalogue - talk it up...
- Thread starter PHArchivist
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I don't know that I alltogether agree with this statement.
The grips on the Luke ESB "Ranch saber" and the grips on the Darth Vader ROTJ stunt saber look different to me.
And also, the resin e-11 stunt that Lucasfilm sent to NASA recently has some t-track like material on it that is totally different from anything else that has shown up before.
Also, I don't think that we have any good pics of the profile of the grip material used in ANH, all I've ever seen is top down shots, which can't really tell you if it is the same as the ESB and ROTJ grip material that has shown up.
While, I think it is good not to take every "real" prop at face value, I do not think that we can imediately dismiss the validity of something that comes from Gary Kurtz just because it doesn't match what we expect to see.
Dan
lonepigeon
Master Member
The ESB Ranch grips and the Vader ROTJ look the same to me. Those also match the ROTJ Fett and what we can see of the ANH props from whatever views are available.
The Kurtz grips have been the same on all the props that come from his "collection". While I'm sure they're not all fake, it is VERY suspicious.
The E-11 that sold from the Kurtz collection a few years ago with the same grips for example: "Real" prop that was rebuilt from "parts from Bapty". It was a Sterling from Bapty with a scope from them (the only seen once on screen 1943 style M40 scope), a new rail built from scratch, and grips that were "found in a drawer at Bapty" (which is the official story from JJ when I talked to him). Those grips from a drawer had a narrower base but the grip ridges were the same squared off shape as the others in the auction. The same grips appear on this new ESB saber.
What are the odds?
Maybe the props aren't fake but I think they were "rebuilt" sometime after production. And what's a rebuilt prop if the grips are fake? A Graflex that Lucasfilm once owned that had some holes drilled in it?
Something's odd. We're missing part of the story here somewhere.
I didn't see the E-11 sent to NASA.
Was it an ESB or ROTJ? The resin ESB's have the same ANH grips.
Resin ROTJ's or ILM tour blasters (which are the most commonly seen these days) have squared off t-track similar to these. They were done that way for ease of casting since the originals they started from had the U-shaped channels.
The Kurtz grips have been the same on all the props that come from his "collection". While I'm sure they're not all fake, it is VERY suspicious.
The E-11 that sold from the Kurtz collection a few years ago with the same grips for example: "Real" prop that was rebuilt from "parts from Bapty". It was a Sterling from Bapty with a scope from them (the only seen once on screen 1943 style M40 scope), a new rail built from scratch, and grips that were "found in a drawer at Bapty" (which is the official story from JJ when I talked to him). Those grips from a drawer had a narrower base but the grip ridges were the same squared off shape as the others in the auction. The same grips appear on this new ESB saber.
What are the odds?
Maybe the props aren't fake but I think they were "rebuilt" sometime after production. And what's a rebuilt prop if the grips are fake? A Graflex that Lucasfilm once owned that had some holes drilled in it?
Something's odd. We're missing part of the story here somewhere.
I didn't see the E-11 sent to NASA.
Was it an ESB or ROTJ? The resin ESB's have the same ANH grips.
Resin ROTJ's or ILM tour blasters (which are the most commonly seen these days) have squared off t-track similar to these. They were done that way for ease of casting since the originals they started from had the U-shaped channels.
Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
Can't wait to see more bogus lightsabers in the Museum......oh shucks, those were removed from display.
Good god, that saber isn't even ESB ready. Not even trying anymore...
Good god, that saber isn't even ESB ready. Not even trying anymore...
The NASA e-11 was a ROTJ resin blaster with the t-track similar to these.
One more thing to note. Although all the Kurtz props seem to have similar t-track, this ESB saber's t-track seems to have slightly different profile, and it is made from a different material (this stuff is red/brown underneith, the material on the Vader ESB saber is grey).
I'm not saying that it is impossible that these props were rebuilt. But if they were, why leave off things like caluclator bubbles or a circut board. These are probably the easiest parts to come by. Why leave off a kobold flash mount, and why substitue a d-ring bracket that is different from anything seen on the lucasfilm archive props?
I mean, if someone wanted to forge a prop, it would be easy to use Gino's grips, or Saberfreak's stuff, and say "look, just what you excpected to see".
my .02
Dan
One more thing to note. Although all the Kurtz props seem to have similar t-track, this ESB saber's t-track seems to have slightly different profile, and it is made from a different material (this stuff is red/brown underneith, the material on the Vader ESB saber is grey).
I'm not saying that it is impossible that these props were rebuilt. But if they were, why leave off things like caluclator bubbles or a circut board. These are probably the easiest parts to come by. Why leave off a kobold flash mount, and why substitue a d-ring bracket that is different from anything seen on the lucasfilm archive props?
I mean, if someone wanted to forge a prop, it would be easy to use Gino's grips, or Saberfreak's stuff, and say "look, just what you excpected to see".
my .02
Dan
lonepigeon
Master Member
I don't necessarily think they are trying to forge a prop. These things seem to have some real wear.
JJ didn't seem to think it was a big deal that the E-11 they previously sold was rebuilt. I disagree.
What if these sabers were fixed up after production wrapped in the 80's?
Maybe they were promo sabers built at the time?
I don't know. I just think there is some crucial information missing here.
The t-track shapes on these sabers are the simplest shape to build from scratch if you don't have access to the correct material. Same with the d-ring part. The grips are cast (red, grey, and off-white) and have carefully rounded corners. Just seems odd and all of these examples come from the same source.
If I had ever seen squared grips like this on props in any movie photos I wouldn't be as suspicious.
You're right that we shouldn't dismiss them outright, but I also don't want to just accept them at face value either (not saying you are).
JJ didn't seem to think it was a big deal that the E-11 they previously sold was rebuilt. I disagree.
What if these sabers were fixed up after production wrapped in the 80's?
Maybe they were promo sabers built at the time?
I don't know. I just think there is some crucial information missing here.
The t-track shapes on these sabers are the simplest shape to build from scratch if you don't have access to the correct material. Same with the d-ring part. The grips are cast (red, grey, and off-white) and have carefully rounded corners. Just seems odd and all of these examples come from the same source.
If I had ever seen squared grips like this on props in any movie photos I wouldn't be as suspicious.
You're right that we shouldn't dismiss them outright, but I also don't want to just accept them at face value either (not saying you are).
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Studio Stasis
Sr Member
Yeah, I particularly like the stunt T2 sunglasses. Haha, they aren't even Persols. I'm sure they were used as stunt glasses, since the real ones were so expensive, but who cares? I'd rather just have a pair of Persol sunglasses than something that isn't even the same shape.
vaderdarth
Master Member
Not at all impressed with the lightsaber. Deathstar tiles are worth a second look however. Got a kick out of several items besides the tiles. The Jack Skellington Santa Sleigh and Reindeer (skeletal) was a treat as were the Corpse bride hero puppets. I also liked the Close encounters alien child costume as well as the Mars Attacks martian puppet. That was the coolest stuff in there in my opinion.
Dave
Dave
Anything from Raiders is pretty rare, so yeah, tres cool.
