Need some advice (X-Wing studio model paint related)

[JMChladek]

I started a discussion like this in Julien's Red 4 model thread, but it is kind of evolving in a little different direction, so I thought I would bring it here so as to not bring that one too off topic.

Anyway, looking at my Captain Cardboard X-Wing, I am tempted to begin work on it after I finish a couple other projects first. Plus, before painting it, I want to practice my techninques on something else naturally to get the feel for the look and the paint. I am going to do something of an "old school, new school" build of the original MPC and FineMolds 1/48 scale kits side by side to accomplish that. The MPC kit will be done as Red Leader. I haven't quite decided for the FM kit, although it has decals to do it up as Red 5

Like many of you, while doing Reds 2, 3 or 5 in studio scale are tempting, I am perhaps wanting to do something unique with my CC kit, yet keeping it as close to a studio model as I can in terms of paint work. Red 2 I did with a 1/72 FM kit, so again I don't want to redo that scheme. I also did a diorama about 10 years ago with an accurized MPC snap X-Wing as Red 5, so while I know I can do one more accurately today, again I don't feel like going backwards.

So that leaves two main possibilities, Red 4 and Red 6. A really good Red 4 model has been done. I really like it, but I don't necessarily want to take away from its uniqueness by copying it. But I love the added yellow colorings on it. As for option 2, if I understand the previous discussions correctly, two Red 6 models were built for ANH and apparently both were pyro models. The most pictures I've seen have been for the gray canopied one. It looks nice, but kind of clean. The picture of the work in progress one with the brick red canopy I find the more appealing of the two Red 6 models, but I've only ever seen one picture of it as a work in progress.

There is a third option of course, and that is the Red 12 (Blue 12) ship with the broken number stripes. As such, a thought occurred to me. The only image I've seen of Red 12 is the bottom picture and there seems to only be one picture out there of the Red 6 red canopied model. So, what if I were to combine the two images and do a Red 12? So the bottom would match the Red 12 studio model and the top would have the trim paint found on the red canopy Red 6 model (but it would have the twelve broken number stripes on all four wings). I haven't seen any details in either picture that would contradict the other one. So I could do it.

I realize since it is my model, I can of course do anything I want. But I just want some feedback to help with my decision making. Of course, if there are any pictures out there of a more finished Red 6 with a red canopy, those would be nice to see. But I am not making a request for those since I don't want to run the risk of breaking any trust agreements some of you guys might have if such pictures are still in private ownership.

 

[MonsieurTox]

Hey JM,

I too think that some of the pyro birds are more interesting than the usual hero models in several ways. (more detailled paintjob, different color scheme and the fact that even if most of them are unknown from most people, they're true X-wings built by ILM.

Both red 6 and red 12 are two very nice models with unique features (red canopy for red 6 and the wing markings for red 12).

I wont be able to help you about getting new ref material for any of those 2 models, but - I don't want to break your idea - red 12 has a yellow canopy and a black with rusty dome R2 unit, it wouldnt work with a red 6 top paint scheme. Of course if you don't really care about accuracy, that would be a cool paintjob !

 

[Nwerke]

Red 12 also has the big dark marking (looks like a burn) on the lower forwards fuselage carried around to the top of the fuselage. I say just go with Red 12 - that would be great to see.

 

[JMChladek]

It could work, although my Red 12 references are a bit limited. I like the idea of the yellow canopy on Red 12 though.

Plus, if I do Red 6, I'll likely have to add some mass to the pilot unless I go with a studio model biker helmet pilot instead of one that looks like Bill Hootkins.

 

[Devin]

Since the subject is color, I have a question: is there a list of the known (or supposed) colors that ILM used on the original models? I know it's mostly the old Floquil lacquers, but are specific colors known? Say, for example, are all X and Y wing base coats Floquil XXXX color, are all of the reds used XXXX color, etc.?

Thanks!

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

I've wanted to do a red 12 for a while but keep waiting, hoping that some new references will come to light. :cry Cue the sad violin music...

Dan
ddstokes@aol.com

 

[PHArchivist]

Since the subject is color, I have a question: is there a list of the known (or supposed) colors that ILM used on the original models? I know it's mostly the old Floquil lacquers, but are specific colors known? Say, for example, are all X and Y wing base coats Floquil XXXX color, are all of the reds used XXXX color, etc.?

Thanks!

Common lore is that the red was Caboose Red.

 

[Colin Droidmilk]

Having ordered a Red 5 V3 from Mike, and then changing my mind about doing Red 5, I'm kind of stuck as to how to paint mine too (the engine details don't match any of the others). One option is to just imagine ILM painted one more and do that. That is - to use a fine art term - imitate the hand of Joe Johnston or Steve Gawley or whoever, and make a perfect copy of the ILM style, rather than any particular model. Ok, so then it's not a prop replica.... have to ask myself if I care too much about that. Do I?...hmmm.... dunno.... Red 8, anyone?

 

[JMChladek]

Okay, is there a picture out there that has been posted publicly of Red 12 showcasing the top of it? I am thinking it might be one of the X-Wings sitting on the table next to the ILM guys during a group shot since it appears to have a yellow canopy like Red 4 in front of it. But I can't tell for sure.

I understand the dilema Colin as I am at the same point. The other X-Wing candidates for that would be Reds 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11. I may end up doing something similar myself.

 

[Qrest Fourstar]

I still don't understand why the folks that have secret photos jst dont get together and make a paint guide for all us mortals that would like to build as accurate x-wings as we possibly can.

 

[MonsieurTox]

Okay, is there a picture out there that has been posted publicly of Red 12 showcasing the top of it? I am thinking it might be one of the X-Wings sitting on the table next to the ILM guys during a group shot since it appears to have a yellow canopy like Red 4 in front of it. But I can't tell for sure.

Hey JM, you're right, here you go :

 

[PHArchivist]

The red stripes match the Budweiser can in the backgroud - just more weathered!

 

[MonsieurTox]

The red stripes match the Budweiser can in the backgroud - just more weathered!

Good eye Rob ! :lol

 

[JMChladek]

OMG, you're right! :lol
Okay. Looks like Red 12 will be my prime candidate then. I had a feeling that was probably it behind Red 4. Of course, Red 6 red canopy is still tempting (maybe stripe it different, say as Red 11 to keep it different from the gray canopied Porkins Red 6 model).

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[MonsieurTox]

Yeah, the other particularity of Red 12 is that it's, AFAIK, the only one with a large olive drab strip between the nose cap and the mid forward fuse. This strip wraps antirely the fuselage (top, both side and bottom, but bottom as also one of the panel in gray).

 

[JMChladek]

I checked it with the other Blue 12 photo, and indeed it is the same. That OD stripe is interesting. It is hard to tell if it is really Olive Drab or if it is just a very heavily weathered yellow. I'll have to try some color tests before I decide for sure if I want to do that one specifically or not.

Considering I don't recall anyone else doing a Red 12, I think it might be an RPF first.

 

[MonsieurTox]

I can assure you that the panels are painted OD or olive green !

I would have love to be the first to do this one, but I will have a great pleasure to follow your build ! :thumbsup

 

[JMChladek]

I can assure you that the panels are painted OD or olive green !

I would have love to be the first to do this one, but I will have a great pleasure to follow your build ! :thumbsup

Well, it has moved closer to the front burner. Now that I have finished with the TIE Bizarro (see general modeling thread), I have moved a pair of X-Wing model kits to my workbench. It is something of an "old school, new school" build with an accurized MPC kit (already partially built) and a FineMolds kit. I'll be using those to develop my painting techniques and color selections. BTW, I have decided that the FM X-Wing will be using your Red 4 paint job Julien. Main reason is it has a yellow canopy and so does Red 12.

Then I'll begin work on the CC X-Wing as Red 12.

 

[TheRealMcFly]

I too would love to know exactly which Floquil paints were used. You could start by assembling a list of all colors available in 1975, eliminating new flavors. Easier said then done. We do know they had a practical attitude. In color matching another project, I discovered primer was dead match for a panel. Not surprising, since after all they wanted the panel to look primered.
At the end of the day its up to you how you want your project to look. On screen color differs greatly from real world lighting.

Clearly we are all inspired by the look of one paint job or another. This is the RPF afterall; we always strive for the perfect replica down to every last scratch. But consider, in this case, its not the way to go.

The most authentic way to build an X Wing would be to put yourself in the position the original builders were. You have a blank kit ready to go, and to detail as you please. The only requirement being it has to look used. You're the builder now. It is no longer necessary to copy another artist's work.

The quality of your work will be what makes this model stand out. Don't sweat the reference. Pull inspiration from what you like on that table, and incorporate those details for your very own creation. It will still look like its ready for the Death Star approach.

Cue the music.:thumbsup

 

[JMChladek]

As far as using original colors, that is a pretty tall order. Unless we learned to do something a certain specific way, no two modelers are ever going to do something exactly 100% alike. There will always be a little bit of individuality thrown in. Plus, while I have no doubt Floquil colorings were used at the time, there is still the possibility that if a small batch of a different color was needed in the 11th hour, a modeler would likely go running to either the local hobby shop or his own personal stash to raid it for a different color (hence I believe that is where the OD green came from, likely a Pactra color since they were the kings of hobby paint in 1976/77).

As such, in my case while I use the Floquil RR colors as a start, I'll still likely be going to other colors and techniques I know to duplicate certain appearances in the photos as at best, I've only got those and maybe some observations of similar models to get an idea of what looks right to the eye. I figure if I can get within the ballpark, I'll be doing well enough. Of course, that is all anyone can really ask.

In my own case, I don't really strive to "copy" another work. But, I do like to arm myself with as much reference as I can and if a primary source isn't available, I sometimes look at the secondary sources (such as the other RPF member X-Wings) to see how others accomplished the same goal. It is all part of the game. At least Red 12 has some more reference then red canopy Red 6 does. Maybe after this project is wrapped up, I might tackle Red 6 (I've got a couple Estes Maxi-Brute X-Wings that could be built up as studio based replicas) as I will likely have more of a feel for how to approach an X-Wing in terms of paint and weathering by then to tackle a paint job with less reference.