You are right, just caught a BBC report that said it was the first time in thirty years. I should validate my reporting in the future.
Fan Reaction To Jar Jar Almost Led An Actor To Suicide
- Thread starter Captain Dunsel
- Start date
You are right, just caught a BBC report that said it was the first time in thirty years. I should validate my reporting in the future.
Gawd, was that the Oscars? I saw a clip of that not too long ago. So cringeworthy, I couldn't make it all the way through.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
That's a shame, both of them did a phenomenal job with those parts! I wouldn't hesitate to approach either one at a con (especially Lena Heady
). My wife and I are considering dressing as Jamie and Cersei for a couples costume but our daughter thinks it's too perverted!
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
So, a few years back I finally achieved my dream of being a published author. I had a few young adult novels under my belt.
About a year and a half ago I entered the professional Sherlock Holmes author status.
I had written a few stories and submitted them to a publisher for a anthology collection that came out last year. I sent him four stories three of them I thought were very, very strong and well written Sherlock Holmes pastiches.
I also sent along one that I thought was the weakest of the four, it was not nearly as long as the others, and I sort of rolled it out in just a couple of days thinking it wouldn’t be much more than a goofy short story at best.
Guess which one he liked? That’s right, the one that I was least impressed with myself is the one that made it into the book. The other three that I was so proud of, had spent so much time on, he tore them to pieces.
My first reaction was that he was wrong, I knew they were good stories! But guess what, I took his advice, I made some serious edits, one of the stories was changed rather significantly, and the killer became something almost completely different from what it was originally.
So, guess what I have now? Three stories that truly are good Sherlock Holmes adventures. And guess what else, they are included in my own anthology of short stories coming out later this spring. They will be included with several other stories I have now written, that have become even better because of the criticisms I got on the other three.
The point I’m trying to make, is that as a creative person/entertainer, we can either take the criticism and become better at our craft. Or we can think we are so awesome that any bit of criticism devastates us.
About a year and a half ago I entered the professional Sherlock Holmes author status.
I had written a few stories and submitted them to a publisher for a anthology collection that came out last year. I sent him four stories three of them I thought were very, very strong and well written Sherlock Holmes pastiches.
I also sent along one that I thought was the weakest of the four, it was not nearly as long as the others, and I sort of rolled it out in just a couple of days thinking it wouldn’t be much more than a goofy short story at best.
Guess which one he liked? That’s right, the one that I was least impressed with myself is the one that made it into the book. The other three that I was so proud of, had spent so much time on, he tore them to pieces.
My first reaction was that he was wrong, I knew they were good stories! But guess what, I took his advice, I made some serious edits, one of the stories was changed rather significantly, and the killer became something almost completely different from what it was originally.
So, guess what I have now? Three stories that truly are good Sherlock Holmes adventures. And guess what else, they are included in my own anthology of short stories coming out later this spring. They will be included with several other stories I have now written, that have become even better because of the criticisms I got on the other three.
The point I’m trying to make, is that as a creative person/entertainer, we can either take the criticism and become better at our craft. Or we can think we are so awesome that any bit of criticism devastates us.
NakedMoleRat, there's still a big difference, though, between legitimate criticism -- however it's presented -- and ad hominem vitriol. The former, in the case of this thread, would be what several have already posted: recognizing Ahmed Best as a good physical and character actor who was handed a bad character by the writer-director and did the best he could with it; and segue to legit criticisms of Lucas' strengths and weaknesses as both writer and director... It can hurt, especially when you feel you've done a good job, but reflecting on it leads somewhere -- whether it's to recognize valid points, or to reject them and stick to your guns.
The latter, though, is more directly what inspired this thread: unreasoning hatred of Best for something he had not created, and ultimately had little control over. I'm pretty sure your editor didn't tell you to stop writing because you suck, or that you should just kill yourself to spare the world any more of your "work", or otherwise call into doubt not just your ability in your chosen craft, but also your deserving of any basic human consideration or decency.
Collapsing the two is exactly what's been a major point of contention amongst the larger fan community for the last few years -- people (and I number myself among them) who are mightily annoyed that our reasoned critiques of the handling of things ranging from Star Wars to Star Trek to Ghostbusters are either ignored by the creatives in charge of those properties, or lumped in with the actual haters (you know, people who object to Finn because he's black, or Rey because she's a woman, and nothing deeper). There aren't many, but they tend to be more vocal than the thinkers and reasonable people.
See, for most of your post, I thought you were heading toward the editor picking the one you were least happy with, and then readers tearing you to shreds over it and telling you you don't get Holmes, to get out of their fandom, or just flat out die in a fire. That would be in keeping with this threads subject matter. What you experienced was... not that.
The latter, though, is more directly what inspired this thread: unreasoning hatred of Best for something he had not created, and ultimately had little control over. I'm pretty sure your editor didn't tell you to stop writing because you suck, or that you should just kill yourself to spare the world any more of your "work", or otherwise call into doubt not just your ability in your chosen craft, but also your deserving of any basic human consideration or decency.
Collapsing the two is exactly what's been a major point of contention amongst the larger fan community for the last few years -- people (and I number myself among them) who are mightily annoyed that our reasoned critiques of the handling of things ranging from Star Wars to Star Trek to Ghostbusters are either ignored by the creatives in charge of those properties, or lumped in with the actual haters (you know, people who object to Finn because he's black, or Rey because she's a woman, and nothing deeper). There aren't many, but they tend to be more vocal than the thinkers and reasonable people.
See, for most of your post, I thought you were heading toward the editor picking the one you were least happy with, and then readers tearing you to shreds over it and telling you you don't get Holmes, to get out of their fandom, or just flat out die in a fire. That would be in keeping with this threads subject matter. What you experienced was... not that.
I applaud your success in publishing!
I'm with Inquisitor Peregrinus on this though in that the fundamental difference is that most of us don't have a problem with the actors who portrayed these characters and have objections to the writing. An actor can only do so much with the material given. Plus there is no excuse for dehumanizing actors just for doing their job.
I too have rallied against being lumped in with actual racists, sexist, homophobes and don't appreciate being labeled as such for having objections to creative choices when that is all I've ever been critical of in the first place. I also don't care what casting choices are made as long the decisions are for the betterment of the story and don't unnecessarily call attention to themselves in order to make some political statement. Just write a good story. If it's good no one will even question your cast.
I'm with Inquisitor Peregrinus on this though in that the fundamental difference is that most of us don't have a problem with the actors who portrayed these characters and have objections to the writing. An actor can only do so much with the material given. Plus there is no excuse for dehumanizing actors just for doing their job.
I too have rallied against being lumped in with actual racists, sexist, homophobes and don't appreciate being labeled as such for having objections to creative choices when that is all I've ever been critical of in the first place. I also don't care what casting choices are made as long the decisions are for the betterment of the story and don't unnecessarily call attention to themselves in order to make some political statement. Just write a good story. If it's good no one will even question your cast.
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
I totally understand where you’re coming from. The only caveat to that is the fact that to a writer everything he writes is precious. Every word is a jem. And to be told it’s not can be a real ego deflation.
My young reader novels are school aged spies. Those are the main characters. The first book had a villain who was a Russian scientist. An editor suggested that I change the Russian scientist to a vampire, and the kids to vampire hunting spies. Because that was what was the big hype and popular demand at the time.
I refused, and I went the self-publishing route instead. Now a few books later, I am represented by mainstream publishers.
So, it can be devastating for an author when he’s told his words are not quite right. I would even argue it can be more so. Due to the fact that jar jar was a character that was created by somebody else and portrayed by him. I am the creator of the words that are printed on that page and as such, I have a lot more personally invested in it.
I do understand where you’re coming from. And I do concede that you are correct. However, I have been told that my writing sucks. I have been told that I don’t have a clear vision. I took all that and became a stronger and better writer as a result.
Probably my biggest source of pride, and my biggest source of angst was when I submitted a script for an episode of Star Trek the next generation. My story was not bought, they did not like the script I wrote, but they did like the aliens that I created. They took those aliens and used them in a later episode that they wrote them selves. What hurt, was I got no screen credit at all for it!
My young reader novels are school aged spies. Those are the main characters. The first book had a villain who was a Russian scientist. An editor suggested that I change the Russian scientist to a vampire, and the kids to vampire hunting spies. Because that was what was the big hype and popular demand at the time.
I refused, and I went the self-publishing route instead. Now a few books later, I am represented by mainstream publishers.
So, it can be devastating for an author when he’s told his words are not quite right. I would even argue it can be more so. Due to the fact that jar jar was a character that was created by somebody else and portrayed by him. I am the creator of the words that are printed on that page and as such, I have a lot more personally invested in it.
I do understand where you’re coming from. And I do concede that you are correct. However, I have been told that my writing sucks. I have been told that I don’t have a clear vision. I took all that and became a stronger and better writer as a result.
Probably my biggest source of pride, and my biggest source of angst was when I submitted a script for an episode of Star Trek the next generation. My story was not bought, they did not like the script I wrote, but they did like the aliens that I created. They took those aliens and used them in a later episode that they wrote them selves. What hurt, was I got no screen credit at all for it!
I hear you. Writing is not easy. When I self published my novel in 2006 I thought it was pretty good. After talking it over with other writers who are stronger than I am I learned from their criticisms and my book will be that much better when I rewrite it.
Darth Lars
Master Member
I think that the thing with Jar-Jar is that it wasn't only about that character, but that the character became a symbol for most things that people disliked about Episode 1: fart humour, overly wacky aliens (several) and (things that looked like) CGI were the biggest issues. Thus, as a symbol it received more hatred than the character itself deserved.
... And it got hatred from the older generation. I think that younger generations, kids who know Jar-Jar more from the Clone Wars, don't feel the same way.
I have mentioned a few times, that cosplayers who dress up as Jar-Jar and act the character always get a really good response from the public.
... And it got hatred from the older generation. I think that younger generations, kids who know Jar-Jar more from the Clone Wars, don't feel the same way.
I have mentioned a few times, that cosplayers who dress up as Jar-Jar and act the character always get a really good response from the public.
firesprite
Master Member
My nephew, who was about 18 months old when Phantom Menace came out, ADORED Jar-Jar.
Kovnyn
Sr Member
One of the local Mandos in my area has a Jar Jar head on a stick. It gets very mixed reviews at cons.
While I agree it's deplorable to personally berate an actor who portrays a terrible character, I have to wonder about the timing of him coming out with this story. Not to say it didn't happen, but seems to coincide with Kelly Tran and Leslie Jones (?) from GB16.
While I agree it's deplorable to personally berate an actor who portrays a terrible character, I have to wonder about the timing of him coming out with this story. Not to say it didn't happen, but seems to coincide with Kelly Tran and Leslie Jones (?) from GB16.
firesprite
Master Member
Maybe hearing about what they experienced helped him realize it was time to talk about it. I'm curious as to why you think the timing of it might indicate it didn't actually happen, because.. well, there's plenty of evidence in internet archives that the behavior directed toward him actually happened...
DARTH ANIBAL
Sr Member
Isn't that kinda the point of a movement like that? To let people who may be silent victims of something know that they're not alone, and break the stigma they may feel about speaking out about it?
patrickivan
Sr Member
It is sad that the actors take the brunt of the issues surrounding bad roles. Or they can be honestly not the best, but it's not their fault for being cast in the role. Regardless, I may have despised the Character or Rose, and honestly thought her acting was pretty bad, but I'd never go out of my to dump on her. Same with Jar Jar.
I really can't stand how LOUD the people are who dump on these actors as well. And how the media paints all fans in such broad strokes.
Social media can be horrible, but I hope that there's enough good people who can overshadow the bad.
I mean, feel free to hate a person's performance. Just don't be a prick about it and dump all over them, yelling and screaming everywhere you can.
Besides, every time an actor bugs you, just be thankful they're not a self marketing "actor/ director/ producer/ musician" like frank d'aneglo who buys all his advertising, filling it with self written reviews, under the guise of being truly reviewed.
Ps- if you want to see some truly horrificly written, directed, and performed movies, watch a frank d'aneglo movie. But drink or smoke dope. A lot. Make a game of it.
I really can't stand how LOUD the people are who dump on these actors as well. And how the media paints all fans in such broad strokes.
Social media can be horrible, but I hope that there's enough good people who can overshadow the bad.
I mean, feel free to hate a person's performance. Just don't be a prick about it and dump all over them, yelling and screaming everywhere you can.
Besides, every time an actor bugs you, just be thankful they're not a self marketing "actor/ director/ producer/ musician" like frank d'aneglo who buys all his advertising, filling it with self written reviews, under the guise of being truly reviewed.
Ps- if you want to see some truly horrificly written, directed, and performed movies, watch a frank d'aneglo movie. But drink or smoke dope. A lot. Make a game of it.
firesprite
Master Member
Because the phrasing of your comment definitely seems to indicate a degree of doubt regarding his experience. Also, your follow up continues to support that read of it.
Jedi-72
Sr Member
I don't know if I completely buy this. Who was throwing rotten fruit at HIM over Jar Jar? I don't recall anyone EVER attacking him personally. People hated the character. Yes. But, and I LOATHED the character, I have no memory of anyone in any of the shared angst over the movie and the characters every assailing him or blaming him for it. I remember truck loads of vitriol aimed at Lucas. But, not once do I remember Best being singled out. I feel like "victimhood" is just another pathway to relevancy for celebrities, especially ones who aren't necessarily what the business labels as "A-list". It seems more and more like actors should changed their title from "actor" to "victim". Hell, the Oscars should add an award category..."And the nominees for best portrayal of a 'victim' are...."
Kovnyn
Sr Member
But media did exist. The internet, in 1999 was in many American households. I remember the fledgling years of the internet, even before MySpace was a thing. Chat rooms and message boards were the Facebook and Twitter of the day. I visited Star Wars message boards and chat rooms when the special editions were released, and continued to visit them as the Prequels were released. Yeah, a lot of hatred for Jar Jar, and young Anakin (mostly because they called him Annie). A lot of bad mouthing George Lucas, but names like Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd... I had forgotten all about the actors until they ended up in the tabloids years later.
But the inherent side effect of any social movement is that people use it to gain personal attention, by lying.
I remember after the True Grit remake came out, seeing a magazine cover in line at the grocery store. On the cover was Kim Darby, with a headline that read, "I'm still here!" The fact was that she had her time in the spot light and went nowhere after the lights dimmed. But because something of relevance was in the news, she popped back in from anonymity. People gender had forgotten about Ahmed Best. I know I did. So it seems like there's a possibility that he's trying to break out of his relative anonymity. This is his, "I'm still here!" moment.
I don't doubt some people probably attacked him personally. I do doubt how extreme and widespread it was. I also have to wonder what else would have happened to push him to the brink of suicide. Does he suffer from mental health problems that have no correlation to his role as Jar Jar? Did the criticism he received exacerbate his existing mental health problems?
As someone who suffers from severe depression, anxiety and PTSD, I know that left untreated, those issues cen be a catalyst for suicide given the right motivation or influence.
Twenty years ago, he may have been driven to attempt suicide due to a variety of factors. That's terrible, I've been there. I've had the feeling that nothing I do will ever be good enough. So I believe that, to some extent his story is true. From a certain point of view. I also know how people with mental health issues will blow things way out of proportion. There are multiple sides to every story, most of which are unverifiable.
Why wait until now? Just like with so many of the rape accusations of the metoo movement, waiting for the statute of limitations has expired before speaking up seems disingenuous. It's not something I understand. As I have been victimized, the last thing I would want to do is wait until my attacker can avoid any and all legal repercussions before saying something. I won't drag politics into the thread, but there are some strong similarities. At least with Jones, she's been vocal about the backlash of GB16 since the initial reviews came back negatively. Whether she's correct that GB16 failed due to racist and sexist viewers or not isn't relevant. She's been outspoken since day one. I still don't think Kelly Marie Tran has made a public comment. Rose Tyco was a terrible character. I would have much rather see Paige survive because she was the stronger character. Star Wars is always about strong characters. Rose was weak in every aspect, which is why, to me, she failed as a Star Wars character.
As far as I know, Tran, Ridley, or any other actor or actress in the ST has not been bullied to the point of suicidal thoughts or actions. This is not to say Ahmed Bests experience is irrelevant, though. If he is coming out now with his story to show support, then kudos to him. If he's doing to in order to reclaim some relevance, then it's self serving. And at this point, I still can't tell what his intentions are.
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