Re-inventing Lukes ANH Lightsaber- And Vaders too??!?!

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nick daring wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
It's retarded to spin around the clock a thousand times...
Every 8.57 minutes you place a grip.
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But it's not retarded to count out 8.57 minutes?

Here are the minute numbers rounded to the nearest minute...
12:00, 9, 18, 26, 35, 43, 52 using my retarded 103 minute thing.

Hey, it was based on the "hours" of a clock, so cut me a little slack. :^)
 
You know, a lot of people are saying 7 grips is "fact" now and the simple truth is we have no conclusive photo or other evidence prooving this. It's still all theory - mind you very good theory - but nonetheless, theory only. Let's not go throwing around the word "fact" too loosely since for years before now it was supposedly "fact" that there were 6 grips and the D-ring mounted on the edge with 2 rivets through the bottom, and all of that has been blown out of the water.

The best photo we have of the saber at Lukes foot clearly shows 5 identifiable grips and possibly 6 if you look real hard. But it doesn't show all 7. I've yet to see a photo showing all 7. In FACT, all it shows is that we can clearly see 5 grips spaced in a 7 grip configuration. Can anyone argue with this? YES, it would make sense that, going from the layout in the photo, there would be 7. But that is still a logical ASSUMPTION and not proven fact by anyone yet.

I want to believe that there are 7, because 6 in this config would look stupid as a display. But until evidence proves otherwise, all we REALLY have proven is that there was a saber that has at least 5 visible grips in a 7 grip configuration in a still photo.

We still have the burden of proof.
 
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itbedave wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
You know, a lot of people are saying 7 grips is "fact" now and the simple truth is we have no conclusive photo or other evidence prooving this.
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You can clearly see that the saber in the picture with it at Luke's feet has 7 grips. So far, you're the only guy who has seen the higher resolution picture who seems to say otherwise.

It's a fact, that the saber in the picture where it's at Luke's feet has 7 grips. Even if you igore the fact that you can see parts of all 7 grips, the whole spacing issue would make for HUGE gaps if the side not facing the camera only had 2 additional grips.

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It's still all theory - mind you very good theory - but nonetheless, theory only. Let's not go throwing around the word "fact" too loosely since for years before now it was supposedly "fact" that there were 6 grips and the D-ring mounted on the edge with 2 rivets through the bottom, and all of that has been blown out of the water.
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None of it based on true photographic evidence. The 6 grips were assumed since it was known that the ESB saber had 6. The D-ring mount was also assumed since it was a "found" part and the most readily available.
 
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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Heres an estimate of clock positions for the 7 grip..
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Here's a closer estimate...
12:00
1:43
3:26
5:09
6:52
8:35
10:18

These are slightly rounded off. I figure those that are trying to be truely accurate wont use a clock anyway.

BTW Nick, not that it matters, but considering there's 60 seconds in a minute your non-retarded way and my retarded way are shockingly similar.
 
One reason I believe the 'good' photo has seven grips, even though we can't see all of them, is the top grip appears to point straight up. It also seems as though the saber is resting on the bottom front grip and, although not visible, presumably the bottom rear grip. All of this is as a 7 grip saber should be, unless his foot or the focus lense is preventing the saber from moving (rolling).
 
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SFPROPS wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
You can clearly see that the saber in the picture with it at Luke's feet has 7 grips. So far, you're the only guy who has seen the higher resolution picture who seems to say otherwise.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

First of all, lets settle down and have a constructive dialogue here. If you've been following this thread all along, you know I'm not the "only guy" who says otherwise. Someone posted on this same page that they don't see it.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>It's a fact, that the saber in the picture where it's at Luke's feet has 7 grips. Even if you igore the fact that you can see parts of all 7 grips, the whole spacing issue would make for HUGE gaps if the side not facing the camera only had 2 additional grips.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

Ok then - show me all 7 grips. NOT where they should be, I want to see physical evidence of all 7 grips. Here's that photo again:

sevengrips.jpg


And you've proved the other part of my point - by logic, what we don't see should have 2 additional grips (since we can clearly see 5 in a 7 grip spacing layout) but that's STILL ASSUMPTION. How do we know for FACT that there wasn't a huge space or a grip left off? We can't prove any of those things either way right now. By what we see, we'd think it's highly unlikely, but impossible? No. We've seen stranger things.

I'm really not trying to take one side or the other - I'm just trying to point out that while we've been logical about it, we've not necessarily been scientific. I don't think our evidence thus far would hold up as "proof" of the existence of 7 grips in a court of law - that's all I'm saying.
 
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tlrgsxr wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
One reason I believe the 'good' photo has seven grips, even though we can't see all of them, is the top grip appears to point straight up. It also seems as though the saber is resting on the bottom front grip and, although not visible, presumably the bottom rear grip. All of this is as a 7 grip saber should be, unless his foot or the focus lense is preventing the saber from moving (rolling).
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Good logic here - but still leaves the proof of whether or not it's being supported by an unseen grip or his foot. Certainly could be the latter.

And it's good to know that, again, I'm not the only person who doesn't see all of them in that photo.
icon_wink.gif
 
One more thing since I'm racking up the posts tonight...

I tried to measure the gap between the 2 closest grips to see if I could figure out if the spacing looked like 6 or 7- per someone else's excellent idea. All I found was how crooked those grips are on there. Look at the pic, they're bad. Considering how bad they're applied, I wouldn't be too surprised to find that this was 6 poorly applied grips, no matter how much it looks like it should be 7.
 
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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
The picture in the Chronicles shows the other 2 grips.
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THANK YOU!
icon_wink.gif
 
You want to see 7 grips in one photo? Not going to happen. Show me six on either of the Vader ANH sabers- can't do that either.
Do it this way- we can't see two of the grips in that photo. First the bottom grip not seen is casting a shadow and supporting the saber. If you want to see the other grip not shown in that photo see Chronicles.

Edit- you guys beat me to it
icon_wink.gif
 
Someone post the Chronicles photo then for Pete's sake and be done with it if that's the nail. That's all I'm asking for. I just want to see it.

And as far as proving the Vader grips, what's the point? The point here is that for years, many of the same people swore by 6 grips, and photos would suggest they are wrong - at least in the configuration of them. They were definitely wrong about the D-ring. You are telling me you (as a group) can't possibly be wrong this time?

Again, all I'm saying is that if this is going to be "definitive" - then define it with the evidence and I'll go with whatever that is.
 
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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
BTW whats the verdict on the D-ring???-1" or 1 1/16"

also the metal that wraps around the ring, how wide is that???
Someone said it was 3/4" but the one that comes with the frame hanging kit is 5/8"...

If it is 3/4", is there a manufacturer that makes them that siz?.
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Industry Standard on the D-ring clips is .625".

But the clips I have in stock now are .750" and have the same semicircular edge as the two hole version we have all been using.

I also just ordered 500 of these which are .750", they will be here in the next day or two.

Dee-ring.jpg


The plan is to grind down the end of the clip opposite the D-ring to match the contour of the inner lip of the graflex bottom.

BTW people keep asking if the D-ring is 1" or 1.0625"...but thats kind of wrong, we are concerned with the ID, as that is how D-rings are measured. This ring is more than likely .750" made with 1.25" gauge wir Due to the slight bulging out of the ring profile, it's outside diameter would be slightly more than 1".

My .750" rings here have an OD just a hair under 1.0625.
 
The Chronicles pic does not show the missing 2 grips (to me). It only shows 1 for a total of 6 "visible" in 2 pics.

In the Chronicles pic the top grip is the middle of the 5 in the foot picture and is just to the left of the bubble strip.

The 2nd from the top in the Chronicles pic is the 2nd of the 5 visible in the foot pic and is the one pointing straight up.

The 3rd from the top in the Chronicles pic is the last visible grip in the foot pic and it's position is about 11 oclock using the hinge as a reference at 12 oclock.

These thing would be mcuh easier if I had a picture host. Do any of you see what I do?

EDIT: I should clarify this post as there are 2 Chronicles pics and one is upsidedown. This text is in reference to the Chronicle's pic in DS's first post, not the EDC pic a couple of posts down in which it is upsidedown relative to the other pic.
 
My EDC d-ring, which I got just a couple of weeks ago measures 1.0130 on my digital caliper. My somewhat pointy Walmart measures 1.0800, Blastech .9925.
 
itbedave,

looking at the pic below your saying because we cannot see the grip directly opposite the clamp that it may not be there:

sevengrips.jpg


Now here is the Chronicles pic, which has already been posted here several times you can clearly see the gip directly opposite the clamp:

<img src=http://mywebpages.comcast.net/lonepigeon/btm_anh_saber1.jpg>


Both are the same saber, same grip placement*, same headshell rotation etc... etc...

*You can figure out the grip placement by their orientation in relation to key points on the flash
 
Another coinsideration (if my numbed brain is following all this correctly)...

The "Bag-ass gap theory" (suggesting a grip fell off or slid out of position) states that the "BA Gap" lines up with the control box, right?

Well, if there is a fallen or slid grip resulting in a Big Ass Gap, then per the "Toe pic", its NOT in line with the control box...
 
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>The "Bag-ass gap theory" (suggesting a grip fell off or slid out of position) states that the "BA Gap" lines up with the control box, right?</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

Actually the Big Ass gap (Ilove that name!) or missing grip is positioned between the control box and the glass eye (This position is only relevant to the film because the control box is on the opposite side.)
 
I don't think those are the same sabers for 2 reasons.

1. We cannot see if the clamp is half open or not in the Chronicles pic, so we cannot say for sure it is the same.

2. On the "toe picture", if you look at the end just under the D-Ring, you cannot see a grip there at all. Not even a shadow of a grip. Granted the lighting is towards the head of the saber, but is the far side grips were on the edge of the bottom like the grips in the foreground, we should still be able to see the edge of the grip, even it is small... but there is none.

If the grips were evenly spaced all along the end like they are in the foreground, if you apply that same space to that edge below the d-ring, you should see a grip, but you don't. If you could see a grip there.. then there would be 7 grips. But you don't see it. Even when you compare the 2 pictures, the grips are not spaced accuratly in either picture, if they are both indeed the same saber. Look how widge the gap is on the Chronicles pic. That is a very large gap, most likely the same distance as evenly spaced 6 grips. Refer to the below picture

gripspace.jpg


edited

I have overlayed where the grips match up almost exactly on the chronicles saber, in comparison to my 6 grip ESB saber (I have no ANH saber yet). They are quite similar, and even on my ESB saber, I can see 4 grips in 1 shot. I purposely angled my saber to be as close a match to the layout of the chronicles saber as I could, using the leftmost hole in the clamp as a guide for where the grip should line up with the clamp. As you can see, they are nearly identicle.

Which for me, is evidence towards 6 grips on the chronicles saber, not 7, and proof that the 2 sabers pictured above are not the same picture, and that in fact 6 grips have always been used, then just got moved and shifted around as the prop was used in the movie.
 
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