Okay, here's the newest drawings. All of dcarty's measurements, and otherwise a bit more accurate this time.
It's looks to be leaning a bit more on the Flat Barrel side for me. What does everyone else think?
Barrels here are Centered.
-Carson
Okay, here's the newest drawings. All of dcarty's measurements, and otherwise a bit more accurate this time.
It's looks to be leaning a bit more on the Flat Barrel side for me. What does everyone else think?
Barrels here are Centered.
-Carson
Last edited by deadbolt; Jun 15, 2011 at 12:40 AM.
Good point.Anyone here happen to know what two different variations of C96's were used? (Upper and Lower)
If any other members here happen to have a real Mauser C96, could some of you possibly measure your Mauser in comparison to dcarty's measurements and let us know how different they are? That would be great!
Maybe then we could tell if there is any major measurement differences between the variations of similar Mausers.
-Carson
kpax said:
The Hero Mauser, or at least the lower body and mechanism, was a standard C96 that showed WW1 proof marks and the "NS" new safety stamp on the hammer dating it to 1915. Mine is #137361 which dates it to 1913 but is very, very close cosmetically.
I'm also of the opinion that the Hero might have been painted at some point to blend the "heat sink" on the front of the magazine with the rest of the gun. I think that's how the disc on the left side came to be-- when the greeblie fell off and left the raw metal underneath exposed. If you notice how silver the front of the magazine plate looks it kind of resembles paint chipped off:
Last edited by dcarty; Jun 15, 2011 at 1:15 AM.
that's a much better shot than th3 one I have. Do you have other high res shots like this. Anybody?
Can almost see the bottom. I'll photoshop it to see if I can see any better.
Great info about the mauser dates etc. I can't see the proof marks or know enough to tell.
It's hard to see but you can just make out the hint of the "NS" on the hammer in the pre-production pics (where it doesn't have the "heat sink" on the front of the magazine).
Some parts were definitely changed out between the Naked Hunter version and the Star Wars pistol. The safety is solid on the Star Wars gun and it is bored through on the NH Mauser. Can't say if they swapped out more than that!
Increased contrast looking flatter?
dcarty said:
The Hero Mauser, or at least the lower body and mechanism, was a standard C96 that showed WW1 proof marks and the "NS" new safety stamp on the hammer dating it to 1915. Mine is #137361 which dates it to 1913 but is very, very close cosmetically.
I'm also of the opinion that the Hero might have been painted at some point to blend the "heat sink" on the front of the magazine with the rest of the gun. I think that's how the disc on the left side came to be-- when the greeblie fell off and left the raw metal underneath exposed. If you notice how silver the front of the magazine plate looks it kind of resembles paint chipped off:
Looking flatter by the day!
And Thanks dcarty, for yet again another great photo!
I also would LOVE to see some more higher res photos that I am unaware of.
-Carson
You guys are incredible!
What an interesting discussion
I STILL believe the bull barrel to have a flat side.
Markus
take a look at the barrel Dia. comparison. the new pic from Dcarty and the HERO. Hero is side on -smaller- that the 3/4 angle showing almost a full bottom view. Fatter? I think so. How about you?
I'm fairly certain this is the best photo possible of the underside of the barrel.
Unfortunately, it's dark, but they all are.
I think that thin highlight about mid barrel is a highlight off the edge where the curved and flat surface meet.
I agree with dcarty that the main body was probably painted to try to blend in the greeblies. It seems pretty clear that the there's just a bare metal circle (it even rides up on the underside of that upper lip).
Great shot lonepigeon!lonepigeon said:
I'm fairly certain this is the best photo possible of the underside of the barrel.
Unfortunately, it's dark, but they all are.
I think that thin highlight about mid barrel is a highlight off the edge where the curved and flat surface meet.
I agree with dcarty that the main body was probably painted to try to blend in the greeblies. It seems pretty clear that the there's just a bare metal circle (it even rides up on the underside of that upper lip).
But as you said, still too dark. Even increasing the contrast etc, did not help much SEE BELOW.
I lined the two shots up again as my earlier post and reversed the image of course.
In yet another view more Q's arise. The barrel does not look as wide as in the previous shot.
Even though the FH and top barrel line up and look straight the back end of the barrel seems to get wider in the pic. Prob. due to the FH being off kilter a bit, makes it hard to line up. Differing angles, bad exposure, reflections etc.
Also note the "thin highlight" lone pigeon refers to. Right above that you see a darker shadow line at an opposite angle as the bottom of the barrel suggesting a "tapered bull barrel" situation OR a flat area that tapers off to round toward the muzzle, maybe to let the barrel extensions join nicely. But remember the CU of the grassy knoll shot from Naked Runner where the highlight looks to go straight and then turns 90 degrees right before the end where the lock tab is.
Nice pic though. Can even see some tool marks in the recess under the barrel!
My head hurts.
As for the Disk area and painting. No doubt they "dressed" the gun a bit.
Some shots (although my versions are no where near as nice as some of you guys) look blued ie: gun, scope, mount, FH (may be phosphate) with the "add on's" painted Black ie: Grill, front sight
Maybe touch ups account for some color but the disk is curous. in some shots it looks like missing paint, in others it seems to have an edge and depth,
SEE BELOW. ( wish I had a better view of this)
Also happens to be exactly where the mount is in Sitting Target (below)
Same mount too! But not same receiver as that seems to be the Schnellfeuer version BUT the mount is in the same place. Maybe they tried it there first, couldn't holster it? Maybe it was there first on a found receiver and moved it?
Anyway, interesting that the DISK happens to be exactly where the mount is on that other Mauser. Maybe there was a Limited run of these?
Let me know what you all think about the "missing paint" disk vs the releif in the frame.
Also the area where the Disk rides up on the ridge of the frame "could" also be explains by a milled recess. If cut into that ridge, it would do the same thing and appear the same.
Why place the Circle right there- overlapping the ridge just a little?
Did the glue just rip off the bluing? Possibly.
If it is remnants of missing paint, the area would be blued underneath it and look more like the surrounding area (i think) . Removing bluing from a circled area would be a pain.
Also, WHY leave it like that? If they took off a part, why not repaint the entire gun or touch up that area?
Boring side of the gun, maybe they thought it gave some detail.
The Sitting Target Mauser is not the same as the Naked Runner Mauser--it is the later 1930's version with an external magazine instead of being clip fed:
What the Sitting Target Mauser gives us is the scope and mount for the Hero Star Wars blaster that ends up mounted on the aluminum bar.
I'm of a mind that the hero blaster is the complete Naked Runner Mauser. The holes are there for the front and rear mounting points (I think) and the edge or lip that you see around the "disc" next to the heat sink could just as easily be caused by paint as it could by machining. Why machine that space? There's nothing there--anymore. From what I recall it was determined that they had glued an Imperial greeblie (one of the discs the officer's wear on their hats and belts) in that spot. At least one casting was made of the blaster at this point to make copies, generally for the Imperials, which also exhibit the t-track and antenna tips on top of the barrel. The greeblie fell off leaving the disc shape in the paint and exposing the metal underneath. The hole in the middle would be consistent with the mounting point of the scope in Naked Runner imo.
Last edited by dcarty; Jun 15, 2011 at 12:06 PM. Reason: spelling, clarity
Thank you lonepigeon for the Fantastic photo!
I also agree with the blaster being painted, but it's hard to say if the disk is recessed any or not. It looks to me that the barrel was left blued for some reason and they painted the Mauser and possibly the scope mount sometime after those two left and right side Pre-Pro shots.
When it comes to the Grill, I have a hunch that it may be anodized aluminum. It just has that look, you know?
kpax, I never knew the scope mount was noticed anywhere else? Is this a new discovery? Because that SURE looks to be the frontal portion of the same or same type of mount on the DL-44! I must of missed something..
If only we could get our hands on one of those mounts...
-Carson
True. But I wasn't suggesting the Sitting target gun was the same as the SW, just the scope mount and possibly the scope.
It was the position I was pointing out.
Again, IF something fell off or was removed, why leave it like that?
I'm not sure about the grill being Aluminum or Anodized. The left side Disk cut away is so rough and dinged up... but painted/colored.
I think Lichtbringer had some proof that the part was not/may not be the plastic motor fins from an airplane model, due to the size difference. I think he may have had examples of the actual parts and they just wont fit the Mag housing.
So what is it? Complex shape to be machined special for this prop. All the other parts are "found" objects. The odd rings, tapered top etc.
Most likely found but what? If it is the plastic model parts, it could have been bent or stretched to fit I suppose.
A problem to address after the Flat barrel Q I am sure
kpax said:
That's the big question and unfortunately we're not really likely to ever have an answer. Maybe they left it like that for the very idea you suggest--they liked the way it looked. The bare patch breaks up the finish on that side of the weapon without having to do any additional work. Maybe they didn't care. You only really see that side of the blaster once in the entire movie when the heroes are getting out of the smuggling compartments and you can see some light glint off that space.
I'll agree that in some pictures that area certainly looks like it was milled but I haven't seen anything concrete enough yet to say one way or the other. Which is certainly frustrating because I'd like to know just as much as you guys!
If the disc area is the $60,000 question then the heat sink is the $100,000 question--lol.kpax said:
We've been trying to nail that one down for more than a decade. The copy in the cut sheet for the EE Edition of the blaster by Master Replicas says that it is a plumbing part (a pipe reducer IIRC) but I don't know how much I believe that. The running theory otherwise has been that it is part of a model airplane cylinder. If that is the case it would have to be something from Williams Brothers Models as I don't know of any other company that has produced large scale model engines like they have.
Williams Brothers have been around since the 1960s and I'm pretty sure they were making these kinds of kits in the 1970s.
I explored the Williams route to death many years ago. I've never seen a single set of cylinder halves in the correct scale show up on ebay in all these years.
I have spoken to the current owner of Williams who bought the company about five or six years ago (if I remember correctly) who told me that if such cylinders did exist then the molds were either lost or melted down to be re-used. They no longer exist in the Williams inventory.
dcarty said:
If the disc area is the $60,000 question then the heat sink is the $100,000 question--lol.
We've been trying to nail that one down for more than a decade. The copy in the cut sheet for the EE Edition of the blaster by Master Replicas says that it is a plumbing part (a pipe reducer IIRC) but I don't know how much I believe that. The running theory otherwise has been that it is part of a model airplane cylinder. If that is the case it would have to be something from Williams Brothers Models as I don't know of any other company that has produced large scale model engines like they have.
Williams Brothers have been around since the 1960s and I'm pretty sure they were making these kinds of kits in the 1970s.
If there is anyone on this forum who would be on top of that lead, Kurt it would be you
Has anyone ever had any contact with the prop house or any prop guys from ANH?
Only problem is that if it was a found piece, they may not know what it was anyway. I have built props for low budget sci fi films and just "found" cool looking items and shapes and stuck them on. I once built an electron microscope from a night of dumpster diving. Junk, glue and paint.
Last edited by kpax; Jun 15, 2011 at 1:44 PM. Reason: mis spelling
Except there's still only one hole, not two so it can't be from the mount.dcarty said:
You think they switched it back from the clean Mauser in the earlier photos?
It could easily be a thick paint edge. The paint may have built up around the disc. The Imperial disc is one possibility. There are several disc shaped metal greeblies used in ANH that could also be possible. The Imp disc is considered a little more likely because the Merr Sonn blasters have them in that spot.Why machine that space? There's nothing there--anymore. From what I recall it was determined that they had glued an Imperial greeblie (one of the discs the officer's wear on their hats and belts) in that spot..
At least one casting was made of the blaster at this point to make copies, generally for the Imperials, which also exhibit the t-track and antenna tips on top of the barrel. The greeblie fell off leaving the disc shape in the paint and exposing the metal underneath. The hole in the middle would be consistent with the mounting point of the scope in Naked Runner imo.
This timeline is a little off. The Mauser cast was the original Naked Runner mauser, but without any side greeblies. The Merr Sonn blasters have two discs on the side from the Naked Runner scope mount. They're rough cut and the cut lines are in different directions on the two known Merr Sonn blasters so I think it's likely the original tall mounting points were cast and then cut off. An Imperial disc (real aluminum, not resin) is glued over the frontmost mount point.
in some shots the hole doesn't look like a hole either.
It most likely isn't. It's probably paint too. The greeblie had a center hole.kpax said:
While I think the pics of the Hero suggest a flat bottom, the castings from that upper make it almost certain.
Underside of a Merr Sonn...
No doubt that's flat. It also appears to taper which I hadn't really considered until this thread.
An ESB stunt blaster...
Flat, but also obviously cleaned up/filed so the flat spot is much wider than the original. I believe these ESB stunt blasters were cast from the ANH Hero after production (ANH parts stripped off). They have the same upper as the Merr Sonn castings, but the lower is different.
The pulley greeblie is the right size and position for the disk.
The thread dia. on the Naked runner gun is much bigger than the little hole in the disk if it is a hole.
Also...
Note the barrel end cut off profile in these shots.
anyone has better images?
Anyone have a better image of this left shot
Last edited by kpax; Jun 15, 2011 at 3:24 PM.
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