STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
GiovanniDekkers
Active Member
I believe Yoda has the ability to sense all living Jedi, just like Obi-Wan can feel Alderaan dying when it explodes, it could be a force-power Yoda mastered on Dagobah or during the other 900 years of his life, just like ProfessorX can with cerebus in the X-men.Sensing Force-sensetivity from a long distance could be a matter of focus, If it isn't felt anymore, it could be matter of somkind of force-block by the remaining Jedi or the sensitivity isn't that strongly surfaced yet.
With Kanan I get the feeling that he's force-sensitive, but without being strong enough to be felt as a Jedi, he teaches the young boy what he knows, who might become strong enough with it, he might die at the end of Rebels , or he survives the Galactic Civil War.
With Kanan I get the feeling that he's force-sensitive, but without being strong enough to be felt as a Jedi, he teaches the young boy what he knows, who might become strong enough with it, he might die at the end of Rebels , or he survives the Galactic Civil War.
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Wolfsburg
Master Member
Well, yeah that's why I don't like it. There's still time for him to be killed before ANH but I always imagined the Jedi had been wiped out long before then. ANH certainly gave that impression. Kanan brandishing his lightsaber in the trailer makes it clear he's not trying too hard to hide.
I'm going to throw a guess in here but I think that is the first time Kanan uses his lightsaber since the purge. I'm guessing that when the show begins he also begins to "come out" from hiding because of some major event telling him it's been long enough. Makes sense. I honestly don't think he's been going around using it everywhere. That's why it's hidden in multiple parts.
Ben
Ben
seelsa73
Sr Member
It would stand to reason that, if Yoda chose Dagobah for his exile because the mass of life that is there would make his presence undetectable, it would also prevent him for detecting others. So while he may have thought there were no Jedi left in the galaxy, he really can't be sure of that.
Or as others have said just pick up a blaster and carry on that way.
Who knows? maybe after order 66 some of the survivors got so shook up they decided that being a Jedi wasn't "the way" and went at it in some other fashion,for all we know this may affect part seven as to how things turn out.
And let's not forget that Darth Vader, who is supposed to be even more powerful than Yoda, can't detect the force within Leia when she's standing right in front of him, nor detect Obi-Wan or Luke on Tattooine despite being in orbit around the planet. Cripes, even in close proximity with the Falcon it takes Vader a while to realize that Obi-Wan was onboard it.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
I've thought about jedi/sith and their ability to sense others strong in the force. Here is what I have come up with...
The ability to detect another is based on an emotional connection. I believe this connection has to go both ways.
Vader established an emotional connection with Luke when both were aware of their bond. Vader did not have that with Leia.
Yoda was a teacher of Anakin's, that along with his moments of skirting along the dark side (mother dying and the killing of the sand people for instance) sent strong ripples to Yoda. But also remember that Yoda was in deep meditation at the time and he did not know what the event was, nor was this sense a GPS signal. He only knew that Anakin was in great emotional pain. I believe that these strong bonds of this type were severed when Anakin/Vader joined the dark side.
Vader's special bond with Luke was so strong, it led Vader to realize he was on the shuttle to Endor. But it was only that bond, because even the Emperor could not detect Luke's presence.
Vader and Obi had a strong master/apprentice bond. However, the hatred Anakin had for Obi most likely altered his reason to why he still maintained a connection. Think of it as going through a bad break up. You may hate that person and you don't want think about that person anymore, but your hatred (or other emotional distress) keeps you focused on that person.
Palpatine was able to sense Anakin was in trouble only after he was in great pain, but the Emperor already knew where he was located.
or
If at the time, a jedi within proximity and using the force. This is how I believe Vader sensed the rebel pilot in the trench was strong in the Force. At the time he was in communication with Ben. It's like he sensed the ripples in the force.
We also know that strong disturbances in the force whether Jedi or not can be sensed. The destruction on Alderaan was sensed but remember, it was not like such tremors told a story. Ben did not know who these cries came from or why. I believe this was also what Yoda sensed during order 66. He probably sensed the the strong number of jedi in distress.
Remember other details as well.
Yoda did not know when Jedi like Mace and others dies at the hands of Palpatine in his office. The only way Yoda and other Jedi know where other Jedi are, if by contacting them via communication system, not the Force. No one knew Anakin broke orders and left Naboo.
Like I said in the previous post, it would just be terrible for the story for Jedi or even just Yoda to have the ability to automatically locate a force user across the galaxy. No one would be able to sneak around, or surprise someone.
The ability to detect another is based on an emotional connection. I believe this connection has to go both ways.
Vader established an emotional connection with Luke when both were aware of their bond. Vader did not have that with Leia.
Yoda was a teacher of Anakin's, that along with his moments of skirting along the dark side (mother dying and the killing of the sand people for instance) sent strong ripples to Yoda. But also remember that Yoda was in deep meditation at the time and he did not know what the event was, nor was this sense a GPS signal. He only knew that Anakin was in great emotional pain. I believe that these strong bonds of this type were severed when Anakin/Vader joined the dark side.
Vader's special bond with Luke was so strong, it led Vader to realize he was on the shuttle to Endor. But it was only that bond, because even the Emperor could not detect Luke's presence.
Vader and Obi had a strong master/apprentice bond. However, the hatred Anakin had for Obi most likely altered his reason to why he still maintained a connection. Think of it as going through a bad break up. You may hate that person and you don't want think about that person anymore, but your hatred (or other emotional distress) keeps you focused on that person.
Palpatine was able to sense Anakin was in trouble only after he was in great pain, but the Emperor already knew where he was located.
or
If at the time, a jedi within proximity and using the force. This is how I believe Vader sensed the rebel pilot in the trench was strong in the Force. At the time he was in communication with Ben. It's like he sensed the ripples in the force.
We also know that strong disturbances in the force whether Jedi or not can be sensed. The destruction on Alderaan was sensed but remember, it was not like such tremors told a story. Ben did not know who these cries came from or why. I believe this was also what Yoda sensed during order 66. He probably sensed the the strong number of jedi in distress.
Remember other details as well.
Yoda did not know when Jedi like Mace and others dies at the hands of Palpatine in his office. The only way Yoda and other Jedi know where other Jedi are, if by contacting them via communication system, not the Force. No one knew Anakin broke orders and left Naboo.
Like I said in the previous post, it would just be terrible for the story for Jedi or even just Yoda to have the ability to automatically locate a force user across the galaxy. No one would be able to sneak around, or surprise someone.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
This is the reason I felt Ahsoka could survive. Although strong enough for full Jedi Knight status, she left the order and decided that the Jedi way was not her way.
We have to ponder what it is to be a real Jedi. Is it simply a title, or must you keep up you abilities to really be a Jedi. I could see a a person who does not actively pursue the Jedi way through training and meditation may lose a lot of his abilities. And to that end, might he revert to a weaker force user status like Luke in A New Hope/ The Empire Strikes Back, struggling to move small objects, ability to be a good pilot, maybe deflect a few blaster bolt.
I also agree that an ex-jedi might in order to fight evil, but not draw attention to his abilities would utilize a blaster or other weapon and if he did use some sort of Jedi abilities, he would do it covertly. Like when Clark Kent uses his heat vision while no one is looking. This is more in line where I was going with the Jedi Zorro comment, I was not seriously saying a masked Jedi wielding a lightsaber and riding a varactyl is out there carving a "J" into everything. Just that such a jedi could use his abilities in secret to help people.
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Riceball
Master Member
Don't worry, that's how I interpreted your Zorro comment, I didn't think that you meant that the Jedi was running in black Jedi robes, with a mask and carving Js into everything. You know though, it would take one hell of a Jedi to carve a J into people's clothes with a lightsaber without leaving a mark on the person's skin. I'd imagine that you that a lightsaber would cut through fabric like a hot knife through butter and you wouldn't get a very good feel for how deep you're cutting making it very, very easy to cut too deep and slicing J shaped piece off of someone's arse.
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Wolfsburg
Master Member
Well you can make up whatever reason you want but the fact is the movies point blank say otherwise. Frankly I fail to see why people refuse to accept that.
Well after his little accident, Vader is considered damaged goods, not the all powerful Jedi he was destined to be. Regardless, just because he is strong in the Force doesn't mean he had the means to control it. Yoda has had 900 years to meditate, learn and hone his craft.
Riceball
Master Member
So you're saying that Yoda had some sort of role of all the Jedi at the time of Ep. III and either memorized it or took it with him to Dagobah and with his secret holo-receiver would watch INN &/or read the Imperial Times for reports of slain Jedi and check them off his list; "well there goes Jedi number 1,389, that's the last of them, I'm all alone now". You do realize that people can and do lie and/or exaggerate at times to make a point and that sometimes certain things aren't always meant to be taken literally. A good example of this was Custer's 7th Cavalry and the Battle of the Little Big Horn, the general narrative of most history books and documentaries is that the 7th was wiped out at the Little Big Horn but it really wasn't wiped out, not to the last man at least, at least 2 companies/troops of the 7th actually survived because one wasn't involved in the part of the battle where Custer was killed. Similarly, the military considers a unit that has sustained over 50% to be combat ineffective and is often considered to be wiped out even individual members or elements of the unit are still alive. The situation could easily be the same here, Yoda imagines the Jedi to be effectively wiped out even if he might think that there might be a few remaining Jedi still in hiding. Telling Luke he's their last hope is certainly a lot better than saying you're our last hope not counting the small handful of remaining Jedi who are still in hiding here and there in the galaxy.
When was that ever established in any of the movies? Sure, he's sustained a lot of injuries and is "more machine now than man", but no where in any of the movies does it specifically say that he's weaker because of it. You can't give a story credit for something it didn't bother to cover.
Lot of good that did him and the Jedi order in the end.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Here's my response to this and your other comments. It goes a little something like this....
seelsa73
Sr Member
Idk what to tell you except, make an inference every once in a while. Or do you need everything spelled out for you down to every minute detail?
Riceball
Master Member
Maybe the hunt for the remaining Jedi wasn't going quite as quickly and smoothly as the Emperor wanted/expected and thus he had Vader sort of demoted as punishment; not a literal demotion but a promotion or transfer to serve under/with Tarkin and the Death Star project which on paper might seem to not be bad but was in reality a de facto demotion. The other possibility was that Vader was put on the Death Star to serve as the Emperor's eyes and ears as it was being built and when it first started operation, to make sure things go smoothly and to keep an eye on Tarkin and that he doesn't start to get overly ambitious.
A third, and actually quite likely given what we were told and can infer, Vader was on the Death Star as part of the hunt for the Rebels, with the hunt for the Jedi done Vader is now in charge of hunting down the Rebels and during the course of that it brings him to the Death Star or is using the Death Star as his base of operations. However, Tarkin is still (obviously) in command of the Death Star and maybe the entire sector and as would be the norm Vader would be, in a way, subordinate to Tarkin much like the captain of a ship or the chief pilot of a plane is in command even if someone of superior rank (outside of their direct chain of command) is aboard. So in this case, both Tarkin and Vader report directly to the Emperor but the Death Star is under Tarkin's command so that means Vader defers to Tarkin's authority for as long as he's aboard it.
Wolfsburg
Master Member
Sure, why not? I'm saying that's what the movie tells us and there's absolutely no reason to think otherwise. Why some have this bizarre refusal to accept it is beyond me. There's absolutely nothing to indicate Yoda is lying or even exaggerating. Why you guys are desperate to find gray in such a black and white comment is very odd to me.
I'm basing the Vader comments off the ROTS novelization which, iirc, essentially says post-immolation Vader is damaged goods "and will do for now", as far as the Emperor is concerned. I'll have to check it to verify but that's what I'm basing it off of unless I am mistaken.
True, but that has no bearing here.
Well that makes no sense. Nothing I've said is made up unless my memory is faulty.
What needs to be inferred? Why should I? There's nothing to infer. Why do I need to look for detail when there is no need to? It's not an ambiguous statement at all. I could say you apparently can't accept something the movies plainly spell out.
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Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Novelizations are not good references. For example, in the Return of the Jedi novelization, Obi Wan tells Luke that Owen Lars was his brother.
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