Troy Downen
Active Member
LOL! But yes, you're exactly right. The geometry of the problem has been conveniently ignored in the OT. I have a few ideas but need to experiment a bit. More this weekend, I hope.
Hasbro Hero Series 1:18 Scale X-Wing with Heavy Mods
- Thread starter Troy Downen
- Start date
LOL! But yes, you're exactly right. The geometry of the problem has been conveniently ignored in the OT. I have a few ideas but need to experiment a bit. More this weekend, I hope.
Troy Downen
Active Member
This is another alignment check for the wings, with brass tubes representing the length of the wing cannons once they are built. Yes, this will be Red 6, which is Jek Porkins’ ride.
Yes, I know; this doesn’t look like much progress for a full-day’s work, but it’s a totally re-built strongback (wooden block inside the starfighter) with an astromech slot and super-careful alignment to ensure (I hope) that everything is parallel. I believe that it is at this point.
As I mentioned, I also cut an astromech slot into the strongback, including small divots for those newer astromechs (like R5-D8 shown in the first panel below) that have wheels on the bottom of their feet.
As I test fit some astromechs that I had handy, I noticed that the R2 unit sat a bit lower within the slot. Maybe a bit hard to see here, but look at where the shoulders are relative to the top of the x-wing fuselage. I thought all astromechs from Hasbro had legs of the same length, but it turns out that some legs are actually significantly longer (or shorter) than others. I wonder why Hasbro doesn’t have just one leg mold from which all are made? Oh well…
OH NO! My feet don’t fit. Please don’t chop them off – I’ll be Jawa fodder!
Actually, R5, my plan is to make a hatch directly in front of the astromech slot and have a styrene panel that I can pull off to get the droids in and out. I’ll work on that later.
So here’s a close-up of how R5-D8 fits within the astromech slot. What do you think; does he sit too high within the slot?
Yes, I know; this doesn’t look like much progress for a full-day’s work, but it’s a totally re-built strongback (wooden block inside the starfighter) with an astromech slot and super-careful alignment to ensure (I hope) that everything is parallel. I believe that it is at this point.
As I mentioned, I also cut an astromech slot into the strongback, including small divots for those newer astromechs (like R5-D8 shown in the first panel below) that have wheels on the bottom of their feet.
As I test fit some astromechs that I had handy, I noticed that the R2 unit sat a bit lower within the slot. Maybe a bit hard to see here, but look at where the shoulders are relative to the top of the x-wing fuselage. I thought all astromechs from Hasbro had legs of the same length, but it turns out that some legs are actually significantly longer (or shorter) than others. I wonder why Hasbro doesn’t have just one leg mold from which all are made? Oh well…
OH NO! My feet don’t fit. Please don’t chop them off – I’ll be Jawa fodder!
Actually, R5, my plan is to make a hatch directly in front of the astromech slot and have a styrene panel that I can pull off to get the droids in and out. I’ll work on that later.
So here’s a close-up of how R5-D8 fits within the astromech slot. What do you think; does he sit too high within the slot?
Troy Downen
Active Member
Super-quick update: wing cores are cut.
The wings will consist of a 1/4" plywood core sandwiched between 0.04" styrene sheets. That's a 16" rule in the photo. Each core is 8" from root to tip. Add another 2" of engine to the root (10" total semi-span) plus another 3-4" for the fuselage and wing mounts. The total wing span will be 23-24" when complete. The fuselage is 29-30" nose to tail. These new Hasbro toys are monsters!! Too cool...
The wings will consist of a 1/4" plywood core sandwiched between 0.04" styrene sheets. That's a 16" rule in the photo. Each core is 8" from root to tip. Add another 2" of engine to the root (10" total semi-span) plus another 3-4" for the fuselage and wing mounts. The total wing span will be 23-24" when complete. The fuselage is 29-30" nose to tail. These new Hasbro toys are monsters!! Too cool...
RogueTrooper
Well-Known Member
Great work so far!.......I don't think I'll start tearing mine apart until I see how your's turns out, so far it's looking very good
...I don't think I'll start tearing mine apart until I see how your's turns out, so far it's looking very good
Laspector
Master Member
I would like to address Troy's problem of paint not sticking once again. I am working on my second one and, this go 'round, I too am noticing that the paint is not sticking as well to this one. Now, I am not only following the exact same procedure as my first one--I am using the same exact paint. I'm not talking the just the same kind of paint--I am talking the same exact cans of paint!! Light coats, long curing times--the whole bit. Yet this time I am noticing that the blue painters tape I am using (same roll I used before) is pulling up a little of the paint. I'm not sure why....other than the one fact that the temperature in my area has lowered a bit. Maybe that does indeed have something to do with it.
However, there is a good side to it (so far anyway), the tiny bits of paint that are being pulled away actually look pretty good! It's actually giving it a better weathering look than I could have accomplished on my own. At this point I don't know if this is a good thing or not as I still have a LOT to tape off and paint. I hope I can get through with it without it pulling off too much paint.
However, there is a good side to it (so far anyway), the tiny bits of paint that are being pulled away actually look pretty good! It's actually giving it a better weathering look than I could have accomplished on my own. At this point I don't know if this is a good thing or not as I still have a LOT to tape off and paint. I hope I can get through with it without it pulling off too much paint.
Troy Downen
Active Member
I like that positive attitude! You're right - it can look pretty cool on a Star Wars model!
What type of paint are you using? Lacquer? Enamel? Acrylic? And are you using any type of plastic adhesion promoter? Are you prepping the surface using any type of cleaner or roughing it up with sandpaper first?
Regardless, you're right - it's darned peculiar that it adhered well last time but not so much this time. One thought other than environmental changes (e.g. weather): there could be mould (mold) release agent remaining on the plastic, and the amount of that release agent could vary from toy to toy (or even from part-to-part on the same toy).
On my paint test sample, I prepped the surface by lightly sanding with 400 grit, wiping down with acetone, then spraying with plastic adhesion promoter (a lacquer) and then used a lacquer primer. Lacquers have the hottest (i.e. most aggressive) solvents so they're likely to adhere the best among lacquers / enamels / acrylics.
This is a darned peculiar experience, isn't it? I've never tried to model with PE plastics.
Hey - please be sure to post pix of your painted toys!
RogueTrooper
Well-Known Member
HDPE (PE) plastics are used in the toy and food industries because they offer bacterial resistance. We used to vac form HDPE for KFC and 1/3 of the worlds toys are made from it.
A good sand, prime and finish with acrylic lacquer may be the way, but I suspect over time it will flake and fail.
A challenge this is indeed
A good sand, prime and finish with acrylic lacquer may be the way, but I suspect over time it will flake and fail.
A challenge this is indeed
Gunpowder
Sr Member
I found this.
http://www.shop4glue.com/universal-...-polyethylene-polypropylene-silicone-81-p.asp
I may give it a go.
http://www.shop4glue.com/universal-...-polyethylene-polypropylene-silicone-81-p.asp
I may give it a go.
Gunpowder
Sr Member
OK on the glue front i found this stuff
http://www.amazon.co.uk/All-Plastic...412421955&sr=8-4&keywords=loctite+all+plastic
I have just tried it and it works quite well. I dont think it would take alot of stress but its good for most things needed. Not sure if its available in the US or other countries though.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/All-Plastic...412421955&sr=8-4&keywords=loctite+all+plastic
I have just tried it and it works quite well. I dont think it would take alot of stress but its good for most things needed. Not sure if its available in the US or other countries though.
This sounds risky, but apparently HDPE can be flamed to improve adhesion. It could be worth trying on a bit of scrap material.
"During flaming, the surface to be decorated is exposed to a suitable oxidising flame for 0,2-3,0 seconds. This treatment brings about a change to the polymer surface that makes it wettable and permits a strong adhesive bond between the moulding surface and the coating." http://www.ihs.com/news/2007/how-to-ensure-best-results-when-labelling-freshly-blow-moulded-bottles.htm
I also found a glue called 'Mr Sticky's PolyBonder Polyethylene HDPE adhesive', but it's expensive.
If we can't work out how to paint this stuff we won't be able to convert the new Hasbro Falcon
"During flaming, the surface to be decorated is exposed to a suitable oxidising flame for 0,2-3,0 seconds. This treatment brings about a change to the polymer surface that makes it wettable and permits a strong adhesive bond between the moulding surface and the coating." http://www.ihs.com/news/2007/how-to-ensure-best-results-when-labelling-freshly-blow-moulded-bottles.htm
I also found a glue called 'Mr Sticky's PolyBonder Polyethylene HDPE adhesive', but it's expensive.
If we can't work out how to paint this stuff we won't be able to convert the new Hasbro Falcon
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RogueTrooper
Well-Known Member
That could be the answer. Just tried cleaning a test piece with AC thinner and then sprayed primer and the paint adheres perfectly.
This is so cool! I saw one of these at Target and informed my wife that I needed one for Christmas from Santa for this exact purpose. Then I thought "I'll look in the modeling forum and see if anyone is doing it" and here you are. Bummer about the plastic, I'll be watching closely to see how discouraging this project will be, but it looks great so far! Regardless, who can turn down a 30" X-Wing for $40??
Then I thought "I'll look in the modeling forum and see if anyone is doing it" and here you are. Bummer about the plastic, I'll be watching closely to see how discouraging this project will be, but it looks great so far! Regardless, who can turn down a 30" X-Wing for $40??
Troy Downen
Active Member
Red 6 Gives You Wiiiiiiiiings!
(Bad pun from an old Red Bull TV commercial)
I’ve been test-fitting wings this weekend and you can see how happy that has made Jek! I keep telling him to settle down – it’s just a glider at this point, dude! Obligatory can of soda placed in shot for scale reference…
Here are the wings laid up earlier in the weekend to glue the brass bar spars to the plywood cores. I use magnets on a steel sheet to secure everything while the glue sets.
I’ve been using Gorilla Glue for the wood-brass bar joint and it seems to work well enough. Gorilla Glue seems to essentially be expanding foam mixed with an epoxy cement, and areas where the glue has seeped out of the joint as it expands can be easily scraped away with a razor.
Here is the overall structural arrangement of the wings: plywood core with brass bar spars fore and aft. Styrene strips frame the wing circumference and then I will sheet the wings with 0.04” styrene sheet top and bottom. That will give me a good working surface to add detail and then paint, etc.
In the first picture you can see that I’m still working on putting the styrene skins on the wings, but I wanted to do a quick fit-check to see how things were looking. I clipped some brass rods onto the wing tips as representative cannons; I kept bumping them around as I took photos so they’re not likely straight in any of the photos, but they do give some perspective regarding the overall look of the beast once it’s complete. That engine is just sitting on top of the wing in roughly the right position; again for some perspective of the overall final product as it is envisioned.
As I checked alignment with the wings installed I became a bit worried that the angle of the deployed S-foils might be off: is the “X” too large, in other words? I measured from my drawings 17 degrees from the horizontal for each of the upper and lower wings (a total of 34 degrees separating top and bottom). Here you can see a front-view photo compared to my drawing and to a screen grab from ANH. I guess it’s not too far off…
Another comparison from the side…
Overall it seems to be coming together okay. Does saying that “jinx” it now?
(Bad pun from an old Red Bull TV commercial)
I’ve been test-fitting wings this weekend and you can see how happy that has made Jek! I keep telling him to settle down – it’s just a glider at this point, dude! Obligatory can of soda placed in shot for scale reference…
Here are the wings laid up earlier in the weekend to glue the brass bar spars to the plywood cores. I use magnets on a steel sheet to secure everything while the glue sets.
I’ve been using Gorilla Glue for the wood-brass bar joint and it seems to work well enough. Gorilla Glue seems to essentially be expanding foam mixed with an epoxy cement, and areas where the glue has seeped out of the joint as it expands can be easily scraped away with a razor.
Here is the overall structural arrangement of the wings: plywood core with brass bar spars fore and aft. Styrene strips frame the wing circumference and then I will sheet the wings with 0.04” styrene sheet top and bottom. That will give me a good working surface to add detail and then paint, etc.
In the first picture you can see that I’m still working on putting the styrene skins on the wings, but I wanted to do a quick fit-check to see how things were looking. I clipped some brass rods onto the wing tips as representative cannons; I kept bumping them around as I took photos so they’re not likely straight in any of the photos, but they do give some perspective regarding the overall look of the beast once it’s complete. That engine is just sitting on top of the wing in roughly the right position; again for some perspective of the overall final product as it is envisioned.
As I checked alignment with the wings installed I became a bit worried that the angle of the deployed S-foils might be off: is the “X” too large, in other words? I measured from my drawings 17 degrees from the horizontal for each of the upper and lower wings (a total of 34 degrees separating top and bottom). Here you can see a front-view photo compared to my drawing and to a screen grab from ANH. I guess it’s not too far off…
Another comparison from the side…
Overall it seems to be coming together okay. Does saying that “jinx” it now?
PHArchivist
Master Member
Excellent, excellent, excellent...! Outstanding mods; outstanding thread detail.
theprofessor
Well-Known Member
This is what Hasbro should have given us in the first place with this thing. Truly awe inspiring work there.
