"BATA" HLMF / HRMF Decals 90% done (95% hasbro parts HRMF build)

The problem is there are so many release with so different paint scheme with different markings that's hard to get the exact same decal sheet they had in their Harrier box. I know that several stencils and NATO markings (heavily used on Red 4) were common to most of the Harrier release, but maybe some of the decals used on the Falcon were specific to one release... It's a hard hunt :)))

I know that one the TIE there are NATO markings from a much smaller scale plane (probably 1/72), but I havent found the correct plane yet. I know the 1/72 Airfix F4 Phantom is an ANH donor but nothing from the decal sheet I have (here again there were several releases but I think I got a very early kit).

Thanks to your thread I found that most of the decals used on the TIE were from HO trains, CAPY etc... Not sure if the Microscale are the correct ones because the numbers dont match, but this will do the trick ! Thanks

MT, keep in mind when the models you have documented were actually constructed, The MF is relatively straight forward since there is just one and we know when it was constructed. This constrains our candidates to those kits available at the time. Imurme's efforts have done a great service to the survey by actually making determinations of the decal sizes, which of course bears on what scale kit or aftermarket decal source was used. For example, the 'tracking data plates' from the Microscale railroad sheets were available in both N & HO scales (perhaps even O gauge) but a size check shows they are from the HO sheet which we have exemplars for measurement. This is getting really "into the weeds" especially since, from a practical standpoint, folks are going to have the decals made and not going to try and use original sources (not to mention decals don't age as well as plastic parts!) Still, being able to find and examine the original sources will help make any artwork more accurate.

To Imurme, again great finds. I keep going back to that sheet looking for stuff. Also, here are some notes from reviewing your updates last night. I am digesting the latest and applying it to the Tracker so I can publish updates today. I was hoping 'Craig' would divulge where he found the "S" decal but haven't heard back yet. I cannot find any real-world instance of that design (and I've tried searching through corporate logos, fuel company logos & history even the donor kit sheets - admittedly somewhat limited at this point - but to no avail.)

So notes:
#7e: The residue area apparent in some current images does not seem to match the Champion decal shape nor do the various contemporary images really look like a Champion logo. More like a square yellow block, such as those found on the railroad car data sheets.

#9e: Found on a movie screen capture, but the details of the A frame didn't match the current images - until I realized the current state of the model has the dish & mount has been rotated 180 degrees and the dish 'flipped'; so it only appears on the one side of the A frame (I initially assumed both sides, but the large 'block' detail was in the way...) I also thought it was a larger size, but it really looks the same.

#12: Would need to cite specific evidence that there are different thicknesses of the yellow-red stripes; some images appear to present two variations, but the visible detail is small and somewhat blurry. I suspect that the variation is due to the camera effects than to an actual difference. Since we believe all came from the same Microscale sheet, they should be consistent (unless there were two different scales involved.)

Other than that, I'm adjusting the counts as you have noted (and we're on the same page on the port-starbaord docking hatch red stripes being the same side to side...) so the Tracker will have much fewer holes in it. I hope to make this the last major 'realignment' of the numbering so to prevent causing other users from altering *their* numbering on their artwork projects.

Cheers, y'all!
Robert
 
Item 57, post 155, seems to me very suggestive of a diesel locomotive nose...

Attached is an example sheet from Microscale. Almost certainly not the correct one.

Mike, back in the '70's the available MS sheets would have been numbered in the lower triple digits, certainly the double digits; that is one contraint I use when searching these sheets for matches. Of course, over the years, designs may have been 're-issued' or reused on higher number (aka later) sheet releases, so it is not a problem either way. In this case, the warning stripes have been repeated on several locomotive data sheets. I also make note of the date ranges supposedly covered by the sheet, i.e. when a sheet says something like 'Southern Pacific locomotives, 1970-1993', we know that *specific* sheet would not have been the sheet used, however, because of the 1970's coverage, there may be included retread designs from an earlier sheet, which certainly helps track the original source down.

Funny how the rabbit hole can turn! Thanks for contributing, keep at it since the more eyes, the better (and faster) the results!

Regards, Robert
 
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Robert,

Yeah I know, Ive been building studio scale stuff for a decade now, what I was trying to tell you, it's that's not only about what kit was used and if it was available at that time, but what was exactly the release they used. Let's take an example : the 1/32 Revell F4J, this kit was released several time with different decal sheets (I'm not talking about the kit parts, it has different / additional kit parts at the time of the making of ANH). Maybe this kit was released in 1975 with a decal sheet and maybe another release of that same kit was re released in 1976 with another decal sheet.
You can't just look at the kit list, see "1/24 airfix harrier" and look for decal sheet on the net for "1/24 airfix harrier decals", you need to know precisely when the MF was built (probably 1975 or finished early 1976, I dont know) then try to find the 1/24 Harrier that was released at this time, not later, but it can be also from a kit released sooner... Not sure if I am clear with that.
We know for sure that several kits have been released again and again with the same decal sheet but that's not the case of every kit.






MT, keep in mind when the models you have documented were actually constructed, The MF is relatively straight forward since there is just one and we know when it was constructed. This constrains our candidates to those kits available at the time. Imurme's efforts have done a great service to the survey by actually making determinations of the decal sizes, which of course bears on what scale kit or aftermarket decal source was used. For example, the 'tracking data plates' from the Microscale railroad sheets were available in both N & HO scales (perhaps even O gauge) but a size check shows they are from the HO sheet which we have exemplars for measurement. This is getting really "into the weeds" especially since, from a practical standpoint, folks are going to have the decals made and not going to try and use original sources (not to mention decals don't age as well as plastic parts!) Still, being able to find and examine the original sources will help make any artwork more accurate.

To Imurme, again great finds. I keep going back to that sheet looking for stuff. Also, here are some notes from reviewing your updates last night. I am digesting the latest and applying it to the Tracker so I can publish updates today. I was hoping 'Craig' would divulge where he found the "S" decal but haven't heard back yet. I cannot find any real-world instance of that design (and I've tried searching through corporate logos, fuel company logos & history even the donor kit sheets - admittedly somewhat limited at this point - but to no avail.)

So notes:
#7e: The residue area apparent in some current images does not seem to match the Champion decal shape nor do the various contemporary images really look like a Champion logo. More like a square yellow block, such as those found on the railroad car data sheets.

#9e: Found on a movie screen capture, but the details of the A frame didn't match the current images - until I realized the current state of the model has the dish & mount has been rotated 180 degrees and the dish 'flipped'; so it only appears on the one side of the A frame (I initially assumed both sides, but the large 'block' detail was in the way...) I also thought it was a larger size, but it really looks the same.

#12: Would need to cite specific evidence that there are different thicknesses of the yellow-red stripes; some images appear to present two variations, but the visible detail is small and somewhat blurry. I suspect that the variation is due to the camera effects than to an actual difference. Since we believe all came from the same Microscale sheet, they should be consistent (unless there were two different scales involved.)

Other than that, I'm adjusting the counts as you have noted (and we're on the same page on the port-starbaord docking hatch red stripes being the same side to side...) so the Tracker will have much fewer holes in it. I hope to make this the last major 'realignment' of the numbering so to prevent causing other users from altering *their* numbering on their artwork projects.

Cheers, y'all!
Robert
 
#7e: The residue area apparent in some current images does not seem to match the Champion decal shape nor do the various contemporary images really look like a Champion logo. More like a square yellow block, such as those found on the railroad car data sheets.

[I have to agree that the #7e will have to be considered an unknown for now, the glue residue does look square rather than rectangular like the Champion logo (I had thought maybe it was not stuck down properly originally and that was why it might have fallen off early)...But I do seem to see red in there and in some shots black, so just not sure? 'S' logo maybe? I will show some pics here for others to look at and maybe someone will see something we are not??]

7e-2.jpg7e-1.jpg7e-3.jpg

rbeach84; said:
#9e: Found on a movie screen capture, but the details of the A frame didn't match the current images - until I realized the current state of the model has the dish & mount has been rotated 180 degrees and the dish 'flipped'; so it only appears on the one side of the A frame (I initially assumed both sides, but the large 'block' detail was in the way...) I also thought it was a larger size, but it really looks the same.

[I tried to find images of #9e, best I could do was a screen capture and a couple from my archive...nobody takes pictures of the other side of the dish, I guess?]

screencap_crop.jpgVEH_IA_850_crop.jpgRight-Side-13_crop.jpg

rbeach84; said:
#12: Would need to cite specific evidence that there are different thicknesses of the yellow-red stripes; some images appear to present two variations, but the visible detail is small and somewhat blurry. I suspect that the variation is due to the camera effects than to an actual difference. Since we believe all came from the same Microscale sheet, they should be consistent (unless there were two different scales involved.)

[No, I am positive that there are two thickness of #12...the best evidence is that sheet they come from (Microscale HO #87-15 Burlington Hood Diesels, Red, White, Gray Diesels) has both thick and thin versions on it...and I see it when I lay my designs against the different areas when measuring...so, ya, I'm sure]

$_57a.JPG12sheet_crop.jpg8715.jpg

imurme

8715.jpg


$_57a.JPG


12sheet_crop.jpg


screencap_crop.jpg


Right-Side-13_crop.jpg


VEH_IA_850_crop.jpg


7e-3.jpg


7e-2.jpg


7e-1.jpg
 
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[I have to agree that the #7e will have to be considered an unknown for now, the glue residue does look square rather than rectangular like the Champion logo (I had thought maybe it was not stuck down properly originally and that was why it might have fallen off early)...But I do seem to see red in there and in some shots black, so just not sure? 'S' logo maybe? I will show some pics here for others to look at and maybe someone will see something we are not??]

View attachment 454588View attachment 454589View attachment 454587
[ The middle one above is the one that best shows the square decal...]



[I tried to find images of #9e, best I could do was a screen capture and a couple from my archive...nobody takes pictures of the other side of the dish, I guess?]

View attachment 454581View attachment 454583View attachment 454582

[The first one shows the square & triangle at the top right corner of the A-frame. It is also, I believe, the only time I've seen that side of the mount; usually it is only the side.]


[No, I am positive that there are two thickness of #12...the best evidence is that sheet they come from (Microscale HO #87-15 Burlington Hood Diesels, Red, White, Gray Diesels) has both thick and thin versions on it...and I see it when I lay my designs against the different areas when measuring...so, ya, I'm sure]

View attachment 454578View attachment 454579View attachment 454577

imurme

[Okay, I believe it! (Talk about not looking at things closely enough! That's what I get for going from memory.) But, with so many missing, how to nail down the specifics?]

R/ Robert
 
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All, this is one for mastication, the 'mystery stripe fragment' that appears on the dish base. I have ID'ed that two of the remaining bits are from the AMT 1/25 Peterbilt 325 COE tractor truck kit (known parts donor kit) as outlined below. The prorate tax sticker board section is an exact match, while the section from the red license plate is also (but this design appears on multiple kit sheets.) The prorate board also appears multiple places but not with the required yellow border & exact color pattern as evident from the exemplar sheet. Obviously, the blue sections came from another source but that and any other missing bits are still to be determined (if ever!) Another case of stacking a bunch of decals from various sources to make something 'new' - just like the greeblies!

R/ Robert
 

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Bumpety-bump! Still working on the ID's and some retro-data related to the missing-in-action decal applications. Anyone have further access to images of the MF prior to it's 'Road Show'? Please pitch in to the effort (and don't forget to get your copy of the Tracker & images archive!) Cheers! Robert
 
Bump! Still need help resolving decal sources, getting better images of some & more images of the MF showing some of the older, now missing or fragmented decals. Such may not exist, but never know! Cheers - Robert
 
Speaking of the other thread, Imurme made a post RE: some of those 'outstanding' decals HERE. He has since reported that item #141 (fragment) was assessed as being approximately 2mm high x 3mm wide - for all who are looking for a match some where!

Also, prior discussion HERE of Tracker item #88 (the tattered stripe at the top of the Dish mount base ring) in post above presented a pretty clear screen capture that shows the aft-most red (from the truck license plate) with a white block next then the start of the blue (? - might also be black) stripe. Assuming the bottom layer was the blue stripe, overlaid with cuttings from the AMT Peterbilt 352 COE tractor trailer kit sheet (below), the white portion may likely be from the '347' white license plate design above the (confirmed) red portion. This would provide for at least three 'cut' decals from that particular sheet that are positioned in such a way that two parallel cuts across the group of 'plates' could provide several candidates for item #88's entire composition. Barring any further images showing this detail any better, the stripe's composition may have to be 'imagined' until better reference can be found. In short, best educated guess until better in known:
 

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Minor Update: It appears that item #116 from the 20150324 Tracker is actually another instance of #140 (two count RR data plate group) so I have renumbered it as #140b, and #140 is now #140a. Using image "965_SWI_8474.jpg" from the Indie 2013 OneDrive archive (HERE) in conjunction with the MPC kit box top image, it is apparent that the remaining fragment is part of a 2-data plate grouping. Updates will be applied to the next version of the Tracker (expect to upload it to the HRSM website this weekend.) Cheers!
Robert
 

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Bumpety! Retired or Imurme, got any updates on the progress of your artwork projects?

BTW, so slow-simmering thoughts on a few of the remaining mystery decals:

1. In last post, the cited fragment is NOT outlined with a box in the second image, it is to the left of those. Obviously, there were TWO of the data plates, in case not clear from prior post.

2. The decal at the inner top end of the starboard docking tunnel is looking more and more likely to be another instance of the "S" decal found on the port after-quarter top hull (item #30 in Tracker.) This is based solely on the colors & their distribution in the two grainy images available to us to date.

3. In the last post, second image, the lower box outlines a red design (missing item #127 on Tracker) that is looking more and more like a trimmed section of a red & white tractor trailer license plate, such as found on the AMT Peterbuilt Pacemaker COE T502 kit sheet (see attached) When suitably blurred, it shows clearly (ha!) the correct proportions and color distribution...

Regards, Robert
 

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Thanks for the updates Robert...

1. In last post, the cited fragment is NOT outlined with a box in the second image, it is to the left of those. Obviously, there were TWO of the data plates, in case not clear from prior post.

Nice catch, I will update my graphics as well...

2. The decal at the inner top end of the starboard docking tunnel is looking more and more likely to be another instance of the "S" decal found on the port after-quarter top hull (item #30 in Tracker.) This is based solely on the colors & their distribution in the two grainy images available to us to date.

I'm also still unsure about this one (item #30), I had thought it might be a TEXACO star but the colors are not right, so it may well be the 'S' logo, we will probably never find out for sure as I don't think we will find any better images from before it was lost...

3. In the last post, second image, the lower box outlines a red design (missing item #127 on Tracker) that is looking more and more like a trimmed section of a red & white tractor trailer license plate, such as found on the AMT Peterbuilt Pacemaker COE T502 kit sheet (see attached) When suitably blurred, it shows clearly (ha!) the correct proportions and color distribution...

I am also convinced that the missing decal on the front mandible (#127) is the trimmed license plate, it measures correctly as well...good job!

imurme
 
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it's been awhile,….

Finally got my computer back to a usable state. Had to buy an older version of CS3 off e bay as my copy was is an upgrade. NOT liking the Adobe cloud versions.


Had to start from scratch on the art work. At this point i've completed the top decals and all the side decals. Started on the bottom decals a few days ago.


Oh and by the way, there are a crap load of hash marks. You know all the little black rectangles all over the Falcon.. Took as long to do the main ones on the top as all the rest combined. The bottom has WAY more. Can't wait.


I have modified and simplified SOME of the decals due to micro printing.


I'll try and post some photos soon on a new thread of the Hasbro RMLF that I'm using as the test bed for size and position tests on the decals.


I'm using the 95% Hasbro build version I did awhile back for this. It's been repainted to be a closer match to the 5ft studio version.


Ok here are some down and dirty shots.


Remember this is a decal test bed comp Hasbro RMLF. Altho it is a combination of both 5ft and 32 studio versions, mostly 32.


There are some decals that do not belong were they are positioned, along with some size issues.These have been corrected on the revised art.


Also I can not tell if these are in focus as I'm having vision issues.


thanks for looking!
Best regards,


IMG_2638.JPGIMG_2639.JPGIMG_2640.JPGIMG_2641.JPGIMG_2642.JPGIMG_2643.JPG

IMG_2638.JPG


IMG_2639.JPG


IMG_2640.JPG


IMG_2641.JPG


IMG_2642.JPG


IMG_2643.JPG
 
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