STAR WARS Hero X Wing Scratchbuild from Maxi Brute

Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

No apologies neccessary atom and thanks for the interest! Please, feel free to post photos of your build in here as well. I can count on one hand how many X scratchbuilds I've seen in the past decade. I would be especially thrilled to see a Red 2. Have you made the engines?
 
Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

Here is the elephant part once more with the bolts aligned.
elephantparts.jpg


You can see the raised portions are not centered on the mid-line. This will effect the length of the halves that get glued on top.

EDIT:
Forgot to gripe about the quality of the plastic on the later releases of the elephant. The darker tan is the newer plastic, which is about as soft as wax. I had to trim off melted plastic bubbles when the halves were glued down. Atom looks like he sourced a totally different version, white plastic?
 
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Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

And now the moment you've all been waiting for... presenting the Maxi Brute fuselage. Here is a comparison with a V3 and the studio Red 3.
fuselagecomparison.jpg


Look at this nosecone and tell me you don't feel that wave of familiarity wash over you.
noseconemb.jpg


What exactly is vinyl tape and where can I find some? In the past I have used adhesive vinyl from sign shops, but the thickness and adhesive quality vary. Any recommendations?
EMP2.jpg
 
Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

I know its been posted some where in the forum but do you have the compete list of models and parts use on the x-wing ? :confused
 
Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

Great job !

Yeah the fuselage and nose cone look really close ;)

I bought my vinyl tape from Ebay, this original purpose is to use with a vinyl plotter (so that's the same you used ?), I probably had great chance, but the thickness was about perfect and it sticks very well, even after heavy washes of white&spirit and paint !
 
Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

Thank you for the confirmation... that's the stuff. And to think I had an entire roll of white. Where is that thing?

Kit list to come soon... still trying to ID a few things in the cockpit.

EDIT: I'd really like to offer something back to the forum and it could be a new ILM 2 part cockpit. Perhaps you can help.
ILMcockpitID.jpg
 
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Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

incrediPAUL said:
No apologies neccessary atom and thanks for the interest! Please, feel free to post photos of your build in here as well. I can count on one hand how many X scratchbuilds I've seen in the past decade. I would be especially thrilled to see a Red 2. Have you made the engines?
Click to expand...

I’m sorry, incrediPAUL,
I wanna reply to your question, but I can’t.
Because, Monday through Friday I'm always out of town for my business.
Now I am using PC of my office, so I don’t have any pics of my RED2.
I will reply to you on Saturday .
Thanks! :lol
 
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Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

The fuselage comparison shot posted above appears to explain the slight but definite feeling of shortness the V3 has always given me -which the V2 didn't.

I say feeling of shortness because the overall length is probably good. What's going on is that the cockpit rear seems to be considerably further forward than on the ILM Red 3 (about 6mm on my screen image). Which means the distance from the canopy rear to the nose is too short. Compounding the trouble is the fact that the canopy front is not shunted forward by the same degree as the rear - which leads the canopy top pane to be slightly squashed up, shortened.

This is why I've been obsessed with dragging the nose forward - just to get a better distance between canopy rear and nose tip. Meanwhile, the canopy front edge is thicker than the ILM Red 3 too (by a couple of mm on my screen) - giving the V3 a wider-looking canopy than ILM, which can only 'fatten' and 'shorten' the fuselage, since the canopy front determines the width of the forward fuse top plane.

BUT IT'S STILL A STUNNING KIT. Obviously. Forgive me, Moe and Mike and V3 fans everywhere - I'm just an over-sensitive general-shape perfection freak interested in gauging exactly where the V3 brings us to in the quest for the ultimate X replica. Anyway, back to the Maxibrute - which is coarser than the V3, naturally, but does appear to be a bit more on-target re this issue of canopy length, width and positioning...
 
Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

I hope incrediPaul does not mind us discussing the x wing in his tread but it seems like a really cool thing to discuss this again...so i apologize in advance if it's inappropriate. I am always happy to look at the differences in the x wings, and to be honest, I have forgotten some of this stuff after moving on to other projects. Anyway i think this is a cool study in what must be the differences between the different models (ie red 3 to red 4 etc).

The V3 fuselage is based off of what i beleive became Red 4 or Red 6 (or both), the interesting thing is that the V3 canopy is actually about 1.5 mm narrower than the this canopy, and that the forward part of the canopy is about 1mm further back from the nose than the actual. Both of these measurements are IMO nearly invisible.

I do agree with Colin that it is different than Red 3, and all the others, to what degree i am not sure.

I do think all of this is interesting because I know in my minds eye I likely gravitate to certain features from each of the models and i wonder if i have at this point mishmashed them all together..


thanks and again sorry for the hijack, I am just happy to see this pop up again
mike
 
Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

incrediPAUL said:
It was rumored the fuselage had been vac-formed over an original. However, when held it is immediately apparent that this is not the case. I wish it was too, but further research reveals it was built up from scratch. The master pattern for the Maxi Brute back plate, droid strip and a segment of the fuselage can be found at the SWCA:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=59028

Seemingly no direct lineage to the originals besides the claim on the box... or is there? Have a look at pages 10 and 11 of the 1977 Estes Christmas Catalog:
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estesxmas77/77estxmas.pdf

Obviously the writer has taken a few liberties but this does establish some lineage. Estes staff did go there and handled the models. There is even a tiny photo of a "Wayne" measuring a Y Wing and a Charlie Webb credited for taking over 500 photos. Now there is a portfolio I'd like to see.

The Maxi kit comes with a wing blueprint that measures out to the size of a Hero wing. The cannon depicted is dead on to all of my studio reference as well. My hypothesis is that the kit was made from a set of measurements taken during the visit.
Click to expand...


That is awesome information! I've not realized there was so much history on the Maxi currently available.

But I'm also in the same camp that wants to believe it was taken from the original.

So...

While the links you posted (the images of the over-scaled parts and the catalog article) form a good argument that it was made from measurements and photos (not vacuum-formed over), these links alone don't prove it...! ;)

Again, I want to believe...

What is missing is any photographs of full fuselage bucks that were custom built by Estes themselves.

The nose cone adaptor buck is there. The R2 srip and butt plate bucks are there (we don't need to see custom bucks to know they were not taken from original ILM parts).

But frankly, these are all parts that are add-ons to the main fuselage.

Again, I'm not contesting any theories, and not trying to force-feed my own. But is there more information (you mention "further research") that more solidly establishes the "built from scratch based on just measurements and photos" theory?

Or does it still remain possible that the main fueslage was taken off an original?

Can we still hold on to our dream? :)
 
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Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

No worries gentlemen. Please, post away, that is why I posted the comparison. PHArchivist, me too... was thrilled to find that catalog article. It almost feels like this is where all the rumors started. Keep in mind some of those master patterns are for the smaller Estes release of the X wing... the Maxi has inaccuracies that you can barely see in the photo, which lead me to believe it is not from an original. They have used stepped transitions to create the lines of the cockpit. The line below in front of the canopy window is actually a step up from the rest of the fuselage. Here it is in profile:
mbprofile.jpg


I am reminded of the Tenacious D HBO series when Captain Ed says "Its like when you believe in the easter bunny or the sasquatch. Let the dream die..." But hey, IMO Sasquatch is real. Even if its not truly from an original, I say the dream of the PERFECT fuselage is still alive.

Also, we can tell from reference material that the top of the ILM hero fuselage does not have any of the nose detail attached. The nose cones were solid resin and attached later... this could result in varying length of the completed fuselage from model to model. Furthermore the nose cone would be cut in two, to allow access to the moutning point resulting in a 'cap' and panel line. Another spot where we see variation that would effect overall length.:wacko

IMO the comparison is a testament to how well Mike and Moe did with their master pattern. The V3 is very very close! Considering the Maxi Brute X is nothing more than a thin simplified form, the choice seems obvious if you're building a replica. But I'm like Colin and obsess over the tiniest of details. So much so that I will be separating the MB fusleage top and bottom. My plan was to do it like the originals, vac formed bottom and all. One step at a time, though. First things first, using the nose to create a master pattern. Any tips on cutting this thing up besides go slow and use light pressure?
 
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Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

incrediPAUL said:
Also, we can tell from reference material that the top of the ILM hero fuselage does not have any of the nose detail attached. The nose cones were solid resin and attached later...

---

I will be separating the MB fusleage top and bottom. My plan was to do it like the originals, vac formed bottom and all. One step at a time, though. First things first, using the nose to create a master pattern. Any tips on cutting this thing up besides go slow and use light pressure?
Click to expand...

One more quick comment/question on the MB lineage, then I'll let it go (because I don't want to side-track your thread of this awesome build!)...

Does the fact that the MB and the original hero fuselages share in that there is no element of the nose affixed to the fuse lend to the theory that maybe the MB was formed over the original ILM fuselage buck?

But of course, when you play out the process of doing so, Estes would have to have taken the original buck (or reprodueced it) back to their facility, OR made their model rockets at the ILM shop, OR something equally logistically unfeasible.

Makes more sense the took data (specs and pics) and did it all themselves.

I too have the MB, and likewise planned to split it top and bottom.

But I have a space station to finish first! :D
 

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Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

mslz22 said:
The V3 fuselage is based off of what i beleive became Red 4 or Red 6 (or both), the interesting thing is that the V3 canopy is actually about 1.5 mm narrower than the this canopy, and that the forward part of the canopy is about 1mm further back from the nose than the actual. Both of these measurements are IMO nearly invisible.
Click to expand...

Missed this part the first time around. I have some of Tox's wonderful build saved in my reference folder and I believe I know what you mean when you say mind's eye. The photo of his on his desk in front of the monitior just screams ILM Red 4. I confess I wore out my first copy of the technical journal, and this is probably the reason I think of Red 1 when i think of the X.

We know the original ILM fuselage was cast in an epoxy resin and combined with a vac formed bottom. Considering the cuts in the nose and the filler on the seam... all add up to a lot of subtle variation. You already accomplished offering different wings and cans per X... I don't think there could be a perfect base X. Also, maybe this extra width could be due to the split of a substituted pyro fuselage? Furthermore, the Red 5 hero reference makes me think there is a slight deformity towards the front of the canopy. It almost looks like it might have been pulled a little early... with all of these factors you really have to decide, which bird to build.

RE: MB accuracy... more photos tomorrow.
 
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Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

To be honest I modified the R2 slot (put it more bacward) to extend the lenght between the back of the canopy and the R2 slot to get the look of Red 4 !
 
Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

mslz22 said:
I hope incrediPaul does not mind us discussing the x wing in his tread but it seems like a really cool thing to discuss this again...so i apologize in advance if it's inappropriate. I am always happy to look at the differences in the x wings, and to be honest, I have forgotten some of this stuff after moving on to other projects. Anyway i think this is a cool study in what must be the differences between the different models (ie red 3 to red 4 etc).

The V3 fuselage is based off of what i beleive became Red 4 or Red 6 (or both), the interesting thing is that the V3 canopy is actually about 1.5 mm narrower than the this canopy, and that the forward part of the canopy is about 1mm further back from the nose than the actual. Both of these measurements are IMO nearly invisible.

I do agree with Colin that it is different than Red 3, and all the others, to what degree i am not sure.

I do think all of this is interesting because I know in my minds eye I likely gravitate to certain features from each of the models and i wonder if i have at this point mishmashed them all together..


thanks and again sorry for the hijack, I am just happy to see this pop up again
mike
Click to expand...

Mike, thanks so much for the fascinating reply - and I'm relieved you didn't take my comments the wrong way!

So the V3 is based on the Red 4 pyro. I'd heard it was based on Red 3, and have been puzzled ever since as to how those canopy/fuselage differences arose! The scarce Red 4 ref I have does indeed seem to correspond to the V3more closely than the hero ref. I suppose if people want a hero-based fuselage to go alongside their Red 4-styled fuselage, then those people should pester any master X-replica kitmakers they know of to perhaps one day in the future take on such a project....? (Incredibly cheeky hint - apologies!!)

Meanwhile, looking forward to seeing what can be done with this Maxibrute beastie...
 
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Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

PHArchivist said:
Does the fact that the MB and the original hero fuselages share in that there is no element of the nose affixed to the fuse lend to the theory that maybe the MB was formed over the original ILM fuselage buck?

But of course, when you play out the process of doing so, Estes would have to have taken the original buck (or reprodueced it) back to their facility, OR made their model rockets at the ILM shop, OR something equally logistically unfeasible.

Makes more sense the took data (specs and pics) and did it all themselves.

I too have the MB. . .
Click to expand...
That is exactly why I do not believe that the Maxi Brute was cast directly from any Studio Model. At best, they took some measurements. There is also the issue of the wings getting in the way. When Estes worked on that project the remaining hero X-Wings were still intact (including Red 5) and any remaining pyros were in pieces, so I do not see any realistic way that they could have made a recast of any X-wing fuselage, not to mention the mold release that would have to be added and then removed without damaging the original model, and permission to do so. The series was only beginning and ILM would not have risked damaging any models at that time.

I have a MB also and, while it looks good, IMHO it doesn't look like a direct cast to me at all. The multiple angles at the back (cross section) are quite different from the ILM birds. I wish the MB was a direct cast too, but I don't really think it is. Compare the cross-section of the back . . .

On the other hand, I suspect that the demise of the original Red 5 hero fuselage did have something to do with trying to scan or recast it many years later, although no information is available on why it was taken apart.

Just MHO - hope you don't mind this sidetrack.
 
Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

ILMwannabe said:
That is exactly why I do not believe that the Maxi Brute was cast directly from any Studio Model. At best, they took some measurements. There is also the issue of the wings getting in the way. When Estes worked on that project the remaining hero X-Wings were still intact (including Red 5) and any remaining pyros were in pieces, so I do not see any realistic way that they could have made a recast of any X-wing fuselage, not to mention the mold release that would have to be added and then removed without damaging the original model, and permission to do so. The series was only beginning and ILM would not have risked damaging any models at that time.

I have a MB also and, while it looks good, IMHO it doesn't look like a direct cast to me at all. The multiple angles at the back (cross section) are quite different from the ILM birds. I wish the MB was a direct cast too, but I don't really think it is. Compare the cross-section of the back
Click to expand...

Unless Estes worked off the original BUCK, opposed to an actual model.

Which could explain variances in details - maybe - since a direct cast off a buck would be "unfinished", and not a direct duplicate of the completed filming models.

Factor in that certain modifications would need to be made to make it a functional model rocket, which (again maybe) could rationalize the tweaked rear end (which I agree is notably different), and the two-piece nose system (didn't the parachute come out of the nose?).

But I digress... Just trying to keep a fun dream alive. I too suspect it is not a direct cast or vacuum-form.
 
Re: 1/24 Hero X Wing Build

Hi Paul,

Tried to PM you but your inbox is full. I received your payment and your parts will ship out this afternoon. Thanks again.

John.
 
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