AMT Enterprise filming model.

trekman1017

I have been debating as weather to put this here or in the studio scale section, but I chose to heir on the side of caution. During the run of TOS there were 3 filming models the 11 foot which is now in the Smithsonian, the 33 inch which is probably in Nemoy's basement, and an 18 inch AMT model kit. I recently acquired an AMT kit and I would like to make it as close to the 18 inch filming model as I can. The problem is that I only have 3 reference photos that are not of the best quality and almost no information about it. Anything would be greatly appreciated.

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phez

I am fairly sure the AMT was used in "Requiem for Methuselah" as the Enterprise sitting on the table. I have the regular DVD's but you may be able to find some good HD screen caps from that scene top help you.

trekman1017

The one on the table is the 33 inch model.

dbuck

They did use an AMT kit for the Constellation in Doomsday Machine and as the Enterprise outside the window of the K-7 space station in the Trouble with Tribbles.

Mr. E Man

If you want a "true" representation of the AMT filming model, you would have to acquire a period (vintage 1966-74) version of the kit. From 1975 onward, the kit is a completely different tooling with many details changed. The differences aren't as noticeble unless you had an original kit together with one from the later releases in a side-by-side comparison. Then the differences would be very apparent.


E

Shaw

I know that for most people one model of the Enterprise looks pretty much like another. But the thing that should be a dead give away that the model used in Requiem for Methuselah isn't an AMT kit is the size.

Hope fully this image will illustrate what I mean...


As noted, you need one of the original long box versions of the model. In fact, I think you'd need the version that came with amber nacelle domes.

As any decals that originally came with such a kit would most likely be useless, you could replace them using newer decals... as long as you use the numbers that are based on the pilot version of the ship.

trekman1017

The noticeable differences are: Larger deflector dish, different deflector mount, and nacelle end caps without balls. These seem to be easily corrected.

trekman1017

Shaw, I know that you made some very nice plans of the 33 inch model, How did you do that, because I think it would be intriguing to make some for the AMT model.

JMChladek

Over at CultTVman.com, the article I wrote about the 18" AMT Enterprise many years ago is still up. I need to make some updates though.

A History of the AMT Enterprise Model by Jay Chladek part 1 | CultTVman's Fantastic Modeling

When Trek season 2 was being filmed, I believe the only version of the AMT kit they had available for use in both Tribbles and Doomsday was the first pressing of the kit with the white nacelle domes. The model converted for Tribbles has orange domes, but these are likely converted from something else as the shapes look a bit different. The orange dome "Long Box 2" and white domed "Long Box 3" kits, or any of the original Long Box kit issues could probably suffice though. One of the things I encountered after the article was written is some of the original tool "long box" kits did get issued in the smaller sized boxes in the mid-1970s before the model was retooled to the so-called "small box" tooling. I will likely call that version LB/SB (long box in small box).

Another interesting feature I see on the "Tribbles" model is the rear nacelle endcaps have balls on them. The Long Box kits had no such feature (I shot pictures of the end-caps for the article, but I guess they got lost for the re-posting) as the rear nacelles were featureless back there. The bottom picture doesn't show any, like the original kit. I am pretty sure the bottom picture is not of the same model, although it is a Long Box AMT kit obviously. I think it might have been an Enterprise model built for a scene in a Viewmaster story disk as I remember having a disk for the episode "Omega Glory" and the exterior shots of the Enterprise and Exeter were of what appeared to be AMT models, not the effects shots from the episode. The rear nacelle balls on this model also look more accurate to the bigger studio models while the ones on the small box kits are too small.

crackerjazz

That is one detailed history - very enlightening and informative- thanks for sharing!

DaddyfromNaboo

Hey guys,

since we are talking about reproducing a screen used item, used for special effects photography as well as set dressing, studio scale is IMO the right place if the SS guys don´t object, presenting valid reasons

Regards,
Michael
RPF staff

Proper

I had built an LB2 version--with the orange bussards--in 1969 as kid. Actually my cousin who was about 17 built it. And I remember the pylon mounts became a nightmare to assemble--or more accurately, to stabilize. Eventually, use of too much glue dissolved the plastic and both nacelle assemblies sank and drooped to the floor.

feek61

Oh yes, whomever designed the original pylon connection should have been fired. No doubt that connection certainly frustrated untold numbers of kids trying to put the thing together. I still am scared after 40 years, lol!! That is the one thing they improved on the SB version. The original version couldn't help but sag and be mis-aligned.

trekman1017

My Dad who put the model together at leas 12 times in the 70's coined the term "Nacelle Droop" I would like pictures of the details of the different version so I will know where I am going. Is the re-release more like the LB of SB?

division 6

The reissues don't have the raised grid on the saucer like the older kits it do.

Shaw

Only one of the models in the Viewmaster shots was an AMT model... not both.

As an example, here is my model built from my 33 inch plans posed like the closer model in the Viewmaster images...


... and I don't believe my model looks like an AMT model.


But here is the basis for thinking that the AMT model in the Viewmaster shots might be the same model as seen in Tribbles...

If we assume that the model in Paul Allen's museum (auctioned off by Jefferies' estate as I recall) is the actual model from Tribbles, then the model survived long after that episode (sorry for stating the obvious here). The Viewmaster images were taken at the same time that Omega Glory was being made, which was quite a few weeks after Tribbles was finished. Which means the Tribbles model was around at the same time that the 33 inch Enterprise was shot with an AMT model for the Viewmaster images.

Is it the same model?

I don't know. But why run out and buy another $2.50 model, build and paint it if you already have a built/painted model on hand?

Here is another question... is the model in Paul Allen's museum really the same model used in Tribbles?

I don't know. But it seems odd that the Allen model seem design to be lit from within while the model seen in Tribbles isn't lit.

Here is something else to consider... the 33 inch model had been retired after it's use in Tomorrow Is Yesterday (mainly because it was solid wood and couldn't be lit), and the 11 foot model was never filmed again after shots done for Tribbles. Could another AMT model been put together (with the intent to light it from within) for use in the later second season and third season? Could the Allen model be such a model? Or maybe the Tribbles model was later modified to play a more extensive role.. but didn't.

Like the light elements not showing up in Tribbles, it is hard to tell (even with HD screen caps) if those rear nacelle domes were on the model during the filming. Or was that something added later?

The fact that (other than the use of the 33 inch model in Requiem) both of the original filming models were retired by the first half of the second season begs the question of what the art department might have kept on hand for a back up. They must have known that effects shots were going to be made for the third season (after all, Jefferies had designed the Klingon and two models were being built), how could they have been sure that the stock footage on hand would be enough for the Enterprise?

The role of the AMT model in TOS production is a very interesting subject... and one that really deserves more research.

Well, in the case of the 33 inch model, I got some really good reference data and spent a few months reverse engineering plans from the existing photos (with the help of a little geometry). I then drew up the plans in an illustration application (I used one made by a friend of mine).

The AMT model should be a lot easier because you can still find them around. I've seen a few on ebay, and even badly assembled old models would work for getting data. The primary hull curves could be gotten by cutting the model down the center line.


JMChladek's article is the best reference for the differences I know of.

The one long box model I had (made for me by my brother) lasted a day... but I don't blame the kit design as much as myself for using it as a toy rather than as a model.

feek61

I must say that I am not sure about this statement above. I can think of shots in the third season that were not seen in previous seasons. I saw a website once that detailed all of the TOS miniature shots but can't remember if that was what the data said. That being said I do remember new shots of the 11' miniature in the third season (now this makes me want to go look got them). Off the top of my head I can think of the "Enterprise Incident" of the ship surrounded by the Romulans; also, there is a shot in "Let this be Your Last Battlefield" that zooms into the lower sensor dome during the opening credits that was only seen one time. There are others and in addition in the third season shots there were white lights in the nacelles that I don't recall seeing in previous seasons. This is from (old faded) memory but I'm sure of it, lol. I also recall in "Spectre of the Gun" a new shot (with the white lights in the nacelle). Where did you come up with this statement?

Shaw

Tallguy has compiled some incredible research on which effects were used throughout the series run which you can find here:

Tallguy’s Original Series Enterprise Catalog (TrekPlace)
Star Trek U.S.S. Enterprise FX Library (Google Docs)
Star Trek U.S.S. Enterprise FX Image Catalog (Google Docs)

His work is an invaluable resource for anyone really interested in the original Enterprise models.


... Also I think it was Mike Okuda who nailed down Tribbles as the last time the 11 foot model was set before the cameras.

feek61

Yup, that's it. I am a huge Enterprise miniature fan. Not sure how accurate it is but according to the site there were several shots after "Tribbles"

Lower Sensor (That Which Survives - Let That Be Your Last Battlefield) [2] - The last new shot of the series! A track in that ends with a close up of the lower sensor dome on the saucer. While not used until season three, I suspect it was filmed in season two. Never seen "clear". In That Which Survives it has a "shake" effect and in Let That Be Your Last Battlefield it has titles.

I would be interested in hearing what makes him believe this shot is from season 2. The film grain appears different to my eyes. Granted many of the shots were re-used over and over but I would have to go back and really look at them again. At this point I don't believe (yet) that there were no new shots of the miniature after "Tribbles" and in fact he mentions shots from "Ultimate Computer" and "Gamesters . . . ." that were done after "Tribbles'

BTW, Shaw, I admire your research and dedication to the 33" version. Very impressive!

Shaw

I think a lot of it has to do with Okuda's statement (which I think was based on interviews with TOS production people rather than a survey of the actual shots like Tallguy did). I believe that because of the time and expense of shooting the 11 foot model, it was set up for filming and a number of generic shots were done each time. And after a certain point, they had enough that they couldn't justify (in the budget) to do more.

I believe (but don't know) that the most of the stock footage was the model in front of a bluescreen... and the quality of the final shots was effected by who was doing the optical compositing.

Some of the stock footage did sit around for quite some time before being used. Tallguy noticed a new version of the Whoosh Away with the 33 inch model that wasn't used until the second season, but seems to have been shot with other footage of the model during The Cage (but didn't appear in the pilot). Until he pointed out the difference, I had thought it was the same shot as used previously.

Thanks!

I had always wanted a model that looked like the one on the table in Requiem... and even today I'm often stopped when I catch my (smaller) model at an angle similar to what I saw in that episode.

I just have to keep in mind... that is not the final model.

I think it would be cool to see someone do something similar for the AMT models used in TOS (Enterprise and Constellation).

trekman1017

Shaw, I haven't given up on my 33 inch but life has gotten in the way and slowed production.

JMChladek

As I recall, about 10 years ago, this AMT model currently in the Paul Allen collection came up for online auction. It was a part of a batch of Trek props that were auctioned at about the same time and they were officially endorsed by Paramount as being used on Trek. Of course, I never did any image or screen caps of the auction page and it has been awhile, but that is what I remember. I can't recall if they were part of the Matt Jefferies estate.

I looked over "Tribbles" and I see one exterior shot of the Enterprise around K-7 that is obviously the AMT kit (right when Kirk and Spock beam over the first time) and I can tell it by the messed up nacelles as one is going slightly up and the other slightly down. The resolution is too grainy online to make out if the back of the nacelles have balls on them or not though and the way the model is lit, you can't tell if it had internal lighting or not. Plus, it is shot from the port side, NOT the starboard side which has the light holes cut in it. The Paul Allen model also has screwed up nacelles (one going slightly up, the other going slightly down) but that may not mean much as the model IS 40 years old at least. But the one in the Viewmaster shot seems to have good nacelles on it, or at least ones not going slightly different directions.

I can't tell if the Enterprise in the K-7 administrative office window is a model or a picture of a model. I think it may be a picture though given that its nacelles look straight (meaning it could be a production still put into the window background and back lit like a viewscreen). Again, it is too grainy to make out details.

One thing I notice about the Paul Allen model is only one nacelle is lit. The other is gray only. Could it be that the lighting was an experiment? If it didn't work out in time, then I can see the effects guys flipping the model over and going with the unlit side (probably with no holes cut into the windows on that side) to shoot for the Tribbles episode.

As for the Viewmaster Exeter (which Shaw correctly points out is only in the background, not the foreground like the 33 inch model), it is obviously a Long Box Enterprise model as well. As I said, it seems to have straight(er) nacelles. Do we know exactly when the Viewmaster shot was taken? Do we know for sure it was taken at the same time as the effects work on Omega Glory and by the same effects house? One possibility I could see is it might be a built up model from AMT sent to Paramount for approval, or perhaps one intended for use on box art (such as the long box 2 image of the model in front of the Earth background). Or somebody could have just done a clean OOB build and it was used since it was available.

It is an interesting discussion, that is for sure.

trekman1017

So far on my SB version 5 kit I have cut off the balls on the Nacelles and filled the holes left by them. The 3 rectangles near the Bussard collectors are going to be replaces and the grid lines on the saucer have been sanded off. I would like some more detailed information on the deflector and deflector mount.

dcarty

Alright, you guys are driving me nuts. Does anyone have any pics they can share of the AMT Enterprise from the Paul Allen collection?

Pretty please? With Play-doh cubes on top??

DB537

Here's a link to a larger photo of it.
AMT Enterprise filming model