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  1. Wookiee RPF Premium Member GotWookiee's Avatar
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    Aug 28, 2005, 11:16 PM - #76

    Hey lonepigeon, are you still in touch with the owner of the original bowcaster? If so is it possible for them to take pics and/or measurements of the real thing?

    BTW, I watched Empire today and observed that the string on the bow is present on the bowcaster during the Mynock hunting scene.
  2. lonepigeon's Avatar
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    Aug 29, 2005, 5:45 PM - #77

    Originally posted by JediToren@Aug 29 2005, 04:16 AM
    Hey lonepigeon, are you still in touch with the owner of the original bowcaster? If so is it possible for them to take pics and/or measurements of the real thing?
    [snapback]1067432[/snapback]
    I talked to Jason Joiner. I'm not sure how intact his bowcaster is. I don't think it'll be much help.
    I wonder how many bowcasters there were. If Joiner has one, Planet Hollywood used to have one (which was at least the correct crossbow- I think it lacked most parts, but string was intact) and there was supposedly a German collector who owns one.

    I was discussing greeblies with Marcus and thought I'd post these points about some of the differences that occured from the time the post production in-progress pics were taken and the post-production Chronicles pics.

    1. Large knob removed from the left side- end of coiled wire now goes into this hole. There's a faint circle around the hole to the right of this, but as far as I can tell nothing was there (maybe a piece that fell off during production, but not seen in preproduction pics)
    2. Tapered knob with black skirt and white numbers was relocated from the right side to the left side for final prop. I'm not sure what's replacing it on the right side.
    3. Three Imperial disc greeblies (assume blaster size .85" dia., not larger costume size) were added to the left side.
    4. Other various flat discs added may be camera thumbscrews.

  3. lonepigeon's Avatar
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    Aug 29, 2005, 7:06 PM - #78

    The buttons at this link are mixed up:
    http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/Knobs.html

    The last two knobs on the page have their names and model numbers reversed. Which screws up the buying links. Buyer beware because if you click the link you'll order the wrong ones.
    Dimensions and the rest of the descriptions appear to be fine.
    I believe from looking at the same parts on the second link Macklin posted that the numbered knob is #3045 and the arrow knob is #337.

    I e-mailed minute-man.com so they can fix it.
    We might want to hold off on ordering until they do.

    The large numbered knob appears to be correct at 1.46" diameter.
    The arrow one is way too big for the bowcaster. I figure the arrow one on the prop is about .825" diameter.
    #3020 the tapered cone knob is the correct size for the knob on the bowcaster with the black skirt and white numbers (once painted it'll look fine).

    Imperial discs may be the larger version used on costumes (based on my rough scaling so far).
  4. Wookiee RPF Premium Member GotWookiee's Avatar
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    Aug 30, 2005, 11:43 AM - #79

    Good news! I e-mailed Horton again asking for details about that old crossbow. They forwarded my message to Bernard Horton himself in Africa who says that the xbow is the "Horton Monarch Supreme." It was produced in the late 60's/early 70's and there were about 3000 made. Here is his message:

    Originally posted by Bernard Horton
    Hi Matt, your inquiry regarding an early Aluminum stocked crossbow has been forwarded to me in Africa to to reply to.

    The crossbow you refer is almost certainly the 'Monarch Supreme.' It was a compact hunting crossbow with 150lbs draw-weight with recursive limbs (of course). It was available with open sights or telescopic sights with a sight bridge elevation adjustment. This was made in Wales in the UK, where I was born, in the late 1960s and early 70s. The stock was crudely die cast and required hand work to finish before the black nylon coating was applied. Production totals are probably around 3000.

    Price in those days was about $40. There are pictures in existance, probably deep in storage archives!
    Many of my productions were used in various films over the years, but, regretfully, I don't have details of all of these.

    I trust the above is some interest to you, it certainly brought back old memories for me!

    With kind regards, Bernard Horton
    Last edited by GotWookiee; May 13, 2007 at 3:29 PM.
  5. RPF Premium Member kurtyboy's Avatar
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    Aug 30, 2005, 11:47 AM - #80

    Holy Shat, dude.

    Originally posted by JediToren@Aug 30 2005, 04:43 PM
    Good news. I e-mailed Horton again asking for details about that old crossbow. They forwarded my message to Bernard Horton himself in Africa who says that the xbow is the "Horton Monarch Supreme." It was produced in the late 60's/early 70's and there were about 3000 made. Here is his message:

    Originally posted by Bernard Horton@ 07/11/05 04:20 am
    Hi Matt, your enquiry regarding an early Aluminium stocked crossbow has been forwarded to me in Africa to to reply to.

    The crossbow you refer┬* is almost certainly┬* the ' Monarch Supreme' It was a compact hunting crossbow with 150lbs draw-weight with recurve limbs,(of course).┬* It was available with open sights or telescopic sights with a sightbridge elevation adjustment. This was made in Wales in the UK, where I was born, in the late 1960s and early 70s. The stock was crudly die cast and required hand work to finish before the black nylon coating was applied. Production totals are probably around 3000.
    Price in those days was about $40. There are pictures in existance, probably deep in storage archives.
    Many of my productions were used in various films over the years, but , regretfully, I don't have details of all of these.

    I trust the above is some interest to you, it certainly brought back old memories for me.

    With kind regards┬* Bernard Horton
    [snapback]1068283[/snapback]
  6. lonepigeon's Avatar
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    Aug 30, 2005, 5:33 PM - #81

    Awesome.
    Now we need at least pics to confirm and someone find one to replicate.

    I looked again at some of the knob and disc dimensions.
    I think the ones above the trigger might be around 1.125" (the same as the one on the bottom of Han's droid caller). It would be much easier if we had real crossbow dimensions. The two added by the big knob on the right side should be 1" (assuming the big knob is the same as the one found at 1.46").
    Those shouldn't be to hard to find.
    The mystery knob on the right side below the plug is probably the same as the silver arrow one (further forward- same side). It has a rim around the top and small skirt plus they're the same size.

  7. Wookiee RPF Premium Member GotWookiee's Avatar
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    Aug 30, 2005, 9:30 PM - #82

    I've responded to Mr. Horton asking just what it would take to get a hold of some pictures. Hopefully, we'll be able to see some pics of this puppy and get an idea if this is the crossbow or not.

    In the mean time, we could really use pics of this bowcaster owned by Jason Joiner, especially the greeblies along the sides. linepigeon are you sure it's genuine?

    What about the flanking scopes? What is the story with them? Are they ASI 4x20's? Are they Nikko Stirling 4x20's?

    Damn, we're so close.
  8. lonepigeon's Avatar
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    Aug 30, 2005, 10:17 PM - #83

    I haven't seen Joiner's bowcaster, but considering what he does have it's likely real. The trouble is it may have been stripped like every other SW weapon Bapty had.
    I will ask him more about it and see what info or pics he may help with.

    The 4x20 scopes on the Bowcaster are the same as those on the Evazan blaster.
    They're not ASI's or Nikko Sterlings. They have flat topped caps and the text on the scope is:

    Model 7
    ORIGINAL
    4x20
    Fixed Reticle
    Coated
    [small "S" within circle logo]

    No idea what brand it is. One board member found the exact scope, but still there was no name brand on it.

    The main problem continues to be the crossbow itself.
    Once we confirm what it is maybe one will be found hopefully it's owned by someone who is willing to have it replicated (and get it done with quality). With production numbers only around 3000 they're going to be very rare.
  9. Wookiee RPF Premium Member GotWookiee's Avatar
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    Sep 10, 2005, 11:45 AM - #84

    Okay, on the scopes: I've past the info posted above to my brother who is into guns and will talk to some of his friends to see if they might know.

    lonepigeon, you said that a board member found one of these scopes? Who was it and do they have any pics and/or measurements of it?
  10. RPF Premium Member kurtyboy's Avatar
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    Sep 12, 2005, 6:42 AM - #85

    Someone at TDH found one of these scopes mistaking it for the Boba Fett ASI. Again, nobody seems to know the manufacturer.

    Originally posted by JediToren@Sep 10 2005, 04:45 PM
    Okay, on the scopes: I've past the info posted above to my brother who is into guns and will talk to some of his friends to see if they might know.

    lonepigeon, you said that a board member found one of these scopes? Who was it and do they have any pics and/or measurements of it?
    [snapback]1074669[/snapback]
  11. lonepigeon's Avatar
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    Sep 25, 2005, 9:53 PM - #86

    Bumping this thread because it's a good one.
    I will have some stuff to add soon.

    PS - Might be time to ask Horton again about some pics.
  12. lonepigeon's Avatar
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    Oct 8, 2005, 1:40 AM - #87

    With all the excitement regarding the Obi emitter I almost forgot about posting this.

    I wanted to share my bowcaster so far (OK, so it's just a small pile of parts).
    I've laid out all the bits on a scaled photo of the bowcaster.

    LEFT SIDE:


    - A couple of ob1kenny's Imperial discs- there should be 3 of them, I need to get another from Ken. Detailed disks with machined notch $9 each in this thread:
    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...=obi1kenny&st=0

    - Numbered black dial (as seen in earlier pics in this thread, before it was painted and moved from the right side). It's a classic style Fender amp knob that kurtyboy discovered. The size and shape match perfectly with the right side pic it's in, but the skirt seems a little wide on ths side (it may just be photo distortion because it's still the same knob with concave top). I ordered them here:
    http://www.tubesandmore.com/
    P-K314 KNOB, FENDER BLACK, SKIRTED, PKG OF 6, FOR BLACKFACE AMPS - $14.95

    - The other two missing knobs are from a camera similar to an old Leica. I'm still looking for an exact match though.

    - Above the trigger is a knurled thumbscrew from my parts box (another on right side). These came off of some camera flash mounting bracket.


    RIGHT SIDE:



    - Big number dial discovered by Macklin in this thread. They're a dead on match for the prop. I ordered them from the source he first listed:
    http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/Knobs.html
    Straight Knurl Knob
    0-9 Numbers on Aluminum Skirt
    Philmore # 3045
    $1.76 each

    - Two smaller knobs. These were trickier. I believe they are also made by Philmore, but are long dicontinued. I found a pile of them at an electronics surplus store (all gone). The size is perfect but the top is incorrect. They're basically the right knob, but they were made in at least two variations. These are flat topped - black with silver beveled edge. The correct ones should have silver countersunk tops like the larger dial. I did see the other larger dials with the wrong tops as well, the company just made the same knobs with two different aluminum inserts on top.

    - The two missing circles are just knurled washers somewhat like the Han ANH blaster scope bracket, but a bit larger. They should be easy enough to find digging in some old camera bracket junk at a camera show. The ones I had on hand in my junkbox were too small.

    I'm still tracking down the rest of the bits - cables, scope rings, scopes, but it's a start.

    So let's nail down this Horton.
    It could be the next big discovery.
  13. Member Since
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    Oct 8, 2005, 7:46 AM - #88

    Nice job Chris. Love the overlay of the knobs on a scaled pic.
  14. RPF Premium Member kurtyboy's Avatar
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    Oct 8, 2005, 8:41 AM - #89

    Hey hey Chris. I like it

  15. Wookiee RPF Premium Member GotWookiee's Avatar
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    Oct 16, 2005, 1:39 AM - #90

    For the past few months I've had my brother working on the flanking scopes (he's into guns and he has made a lot of friends in that hobby who helped) and he's got some info for me regarding the flanking scopes. In short, his best bet is that the S on the flanking scopes is not the company logo, but that the scope was part of a package deal with a Remington rifle, included so they could jack up the price even though the included scope sucked. Here is the text of my brother's messages:

    Originally posted by My Brother
    Okay, here's the skinny:

    The scope might be made by Remington back when they did such things. The mark Original, because it is on the eyepiece, merely means it is an original eyepiece. It is common to see after market eye pieces, or at least it was, so marking original might be this purpose.

    I can almost guarantee that it is NOT the brand name. No one I know has heard of it and a search yields nothing. Remington's popular rifle, the Model 7, occasionally can be shipped with a scope as a package deal.

    Also, seeing as how this is a common hunting rifle (not AS common as a Remington 700, but still) it would be an easy find as a prop for a movie.

    I'll do some more research and hit ya back.

    --Chris
    Originally posted by My Brother
    Alright, I'm damn near sure it was something cheap that Remington @#$%! out on there older Model 7's. It's for smaller calibers, I think. .223, or around that area. You WONT find these anywhere, damn near guaranteed. Remington hasn't made them since god-knows-when, and as far as I can tell, when they did, it wasn't for long. Plus, Remington won't help you out. Back in that day, Remington didn't deal with you or I, only though FFL's; everyone did. So they probably sent the dealers scoped rifles.

    Here's the @#$%!: That scope is a 4x20... the 20 is not magnification, its the size of the objective lense. So it's useless for hunting deer, which is what the Model 7 is made for. So guess what? People probably took them off and tossed them, in favor of something better.

    Why do I think this is true? It's probably one of the most common gimmicks in the gun industry; sell a good gun with cheap accessories to jack up the price further. Check out any competition guns by Springfield or Walther: cheap accessories to add snaz, only to broken or replaced.

    Good luck.

    --Chris
    Last edited by GotWookiee; May 13, 2007 at 3:35 PM.
  16. lonepigeon's Avatar
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    Oct 16, 2005, 2:17 AM - #91

    Interesting.
    Could explain why they aren't very easy to come across these days.
    At least there are several close 4x20 alternatives.

    This might also explain why the local sporting goods shop only had a few Simmons 4x20's and now seem to have quit carrying them (if they're no good for hunting).

    Marcus just recently brought up the circle "S" mark in an e-mail.
    He bought an ASI scope (turned out not to be the correct one for Fett) which had the same mark.
    It was his theory that the mark stands for some feature of the scope. Others sometimes have an infinity mark on them so maybe the S has something to do with the focus.
  17. damon5973's Avatar
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    Oct 16, 2005, 7:02 PM - #92

    I have a resin version and after talking to someone and showing them the chronicles book, they mentioned that it was not a barnett commando but a cheap knockoff from japan. also, I had a website, but I trashed it that had several sizes of hollow metal balls/spheres.

    I owuld love to make mine more accurate or even get a better one. I imagine that an MR version would be way too costly. close to the 1000 range for a blaster and way to big to ship.
  18. lonepigeon's Avatar
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    Oct 16, 2005, 7:56 PM - #93

    There are a few stories about what the crossbow is.
    Jeff Ritzman used to say that it was made by Champagne Archery (but of course he had a real Han ANH suppressor and told us it was from a fire extinguisher).

    I'd like to see this latest revelation followed up with Horton.
    We really need photos to confirm it's the Monarch Supreme.
    Horton and Barnett are US companies.

    The original balls are foam rubber if you're going for accuracy.
  19. Gigatron's Avatar
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    Oct 16, 2005, 10:03 PM - #94

    Hey Chris,
    Those two unidentified knobs on the right side, look like they could be the same side knobs from the Kalimar 660 (or one of the reflex cameras) used for parts for the macrobinoculars.

    Just a thought.

    -Fred

  20. RPF Premium Member imaginager's Avatar
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    Oct 16, 2005, 10:27 PM - #95

    Just wanted to say this has been a very cool thread and a great read from beginning to current.

    Allan
  21. RPF Premium Member kurtyboy's Avatar
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    Oct 17, 2005, 4:04 AM - #96

    I've had two people at archery/crossbow forums tell me its an earlier verison of the Horton Magnum or Safari that was made in Wales before the company moved to the US. One guy even recalled a review he read by some famous crossbow guy of the time. But if Mr. Horton says its a Monarch Supreme, then who are we to argue?

    Originally posted by lonepigeon@Oct 17 2005, 12:56 AM
    There are a few stories about what the crossbow is.
    Jeff Ritzman used to say that it was made by Champagne Archery (but of course he had a real Han ANH suppressor and told us it was from a fire extinguisher).

    I'd like to see this latest revelation followed up with Horton.
    We really need photos to confirm it's the Monarch Supreme.
    Horton and Barnett are US companies.

    The original balls are foam rubber if you're going for accuracy.
    [snapback]1097881[/snapback]
  22. Member Since
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    Oct 20, 2005, 6:24 PM - #97

    Heres a pic of the begining of my project..........long ways to go........



    A quick point for those that have to cut out the center sections like I did. If using a jig saw use a course blade as apposed to a fine tooth blade as it turns the material to a chewed bubble gum consistancy and it seals itself back together after it cools down.
  23. RPF Premium Member kurtyboy's Avatar
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    Oct 21, 2005, 11:06 AM - #98

    Good job. I keep meaning to do that to mine but it just looks like such a big job it keeps puting me off.

    For accuracy maybe get rid of that bit you left?

    Originally posted by Lordsandy@Oct 20 2005, 11:24 PM
    Heres a pic of the begining of my project..........long ways to go........



    A quick point for those that have to cut out the center sections like I did. If using a jig saw use a course blade as apposed to a fine tooth blade as it turns the material to a chewed bubble gum consistancy and it seals itself back together after it cools down.
    [snapback]1100593[/snapback]
  24. Macklin's Avatar
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    Nov 7, 2005, 10:07 AM - #99

    I thought I'd bump with a look into what I've been up to lately.

    I'm making plans for the unidentified knobs. They seem simple enough to turn out on a lathe, so if we happen across the originals, great. If not, we can still make our own.

    Here are my plans for the two unidentified knobs on the right plate. Keep in mind, they're based on not-so-great reference images.

    [image]http://home.comcast.net/~patwood/bowcaster/UnIDed_Knob.jpg[/image]

    I'm not 100% convinced that this is accurate, so I welcome any criticism. Personally, I feel that it could stand to be a bit thicker, but the front Chronicles view indicates that it is close to .25".

    I'm curious to know what all of you see and what improvements can be made.

    Patrick
  25. PHArchivist's Avatar
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    Nov 9, 2005, 6:50 PM - #100

    Here are some pics from the now-closed Planet Hollywood in Beverly Hills.

    The photos are not great, and I strongly question if this is an authentic prop, but here they are...



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