Ridley Scott Prometheus: NOT the Alien Prequel Details

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

I think maybe you're taking this discussion a little personally and it's affecting the clarity of your argument. I don't follow how the methods used to bring the Queen to the screen are relevant to the species' life cycle.

And yes, victims becoming eggs was the way we understood the life cycle in the years before we knew there would even be a sequel. Ron Cobb's and Giger's concept art gave us a glimpse of how it worked (and it was fascinating to see those cut scenes reinstated in the Director's Cut many years later). ALIENS rewrote that understanding and forced us to change the way we see the creature.

The Alien can only be considered to be killing for no reason if you ignore (or in the case of the Nostromo's unfortunate crew, were unaware of) its life cycle. You're right to say that the organism having a reproductive motivation is scary, but that idea in fact originated in the first film. For example, Dan O'Bannon described the facehugger sequence as being about "oral rape" and summarised the film as being about the creature's sexual life cycle.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

I love the first movie - LOVE LOVE LOVE IT. It's one of those perfect movies done by a super smart director who took advantage of the used universe backdrop that Lucas successfully utilized (meaning execs now understood what you were talking about when pitching the idea that not everything needed to be explained). The movie still delivers in a way that NO sci-fi horror films do or can today - that said - I HATE the idea of going back and showing all the cards. Our minds are much more capable of coming up with something more satisfying than anything they can possibly present in a new movie. The prequels are a prime example of just how wrong things can go. Leave it to the fans to come up with multiple ideas over what that is or what it was doing there. Haven't you ever noticed most haunted house movies lose it when they start trying to tell you how the house got haunted.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

One thing is sure and that is ridley is betting against himself!

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Knightjar said:

I think maybe you're taking this discussion a little personally and it's affecting the clarity of your argument. I don't follow how the methods used to bring the Queen to the screen are relevant to the species' life cycle.

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James Cameron: Did we ever see how the Aliens go back to the egg stage in the first film?
Everyone: No
James Cameron: Cool, cause I got an idea.

That's how it went. Now, I want you to think really hard about this because this is an important point. You can't hold someone accountable for contradicting material that you didn't put into the movie. Let's take a look at this one point you made.

Knightjar said:

And yes, victims becoming eggs was the way we understood the life cycle in the years before we knew there would even be a sequel. Ron Cobb's and Giger's concept art gave us a glimpse of how it worked. ALIENS rewrote that understanding and forced us to change the way we see the creature.

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I just love how you said "forced us" like you're implying that Cameron deliberately contradicted previously established material. The only material that would have contradicted the alien's life cycle from the first movie was NOT IN THE MOVIE. People weren't given booklets describing how the alien worked when they saw it in theaters, they weren't told that there were deleted scenes that revealed how the Aliens make eggs, and they certainly didn't get to see any of the behind the scenes work that went into the creation of the creatures when the movie was released onto home video in the 1900s.

What James Cameron did with ALIENS was work with that the first film presented and simply throw in some of his own ideas that don't contradict the first film's established elements. Even with the Queen, ALIENS still had the eggs, the facehuggers, the chestbursters and the alien drones.

Knightjar said:

You're right to say that the organism having a reproductive motivation is scary, but that idea in fact originated in the first film. Dan O'Bannon described the facehugger sequence as being about "oral rape" and summarised the film as being about the creature's sexual life cycle.

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Well, in Alien it was "homosexual" oral rape. Dan wrote that part of the story to go after the men because women were already the clichéd horror victims. And the film wasn't made to be about the Alien's life cycle. The life cycle was made in order to realistically bring the alien monster on board in the most convincing and surprising way possible.

And before I leave, how do you know that just because there's an Alien Queen that the Aliens still can't make their own eggs by morphing living victims into eggs? It can work both ways if you write it right.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

It could be eggs becoming people or people being taken to the queen - you have to remember - the clear dome allows you to see just how EVIL the ALIEN'S BRAINS ARE!!! My Kenner toy said so.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Jeyl said:

Now, I want you to think really hard about this because this is an important point.

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A patronising tone is not a good way to get your point across.

Jeyl said:

You can't hold someone accountable for contradicting material that you didn't put into the movie.

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Jeyl said:

I just love how you said "forced us" like you're implying that Cameron deliberately contradicted previously established material.

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Nobody is accusing Cameron or anyone else of anything. You seem to be being very defensive about this. We're talking about how a plot contrivance made people change their opinion. Nobody is saying that ALIENS is anything other than a great movie with a great story. We're discussing the retrospective effect it had on the first film.

Jeyl said:

People weren't given booklets describing how the alien worked when they saw it in theaters, they weren't told that there were deleted scenes that revealed how the Aliens make eggs, and they certainly didn't get to see any of the behind the scenes work that went into the creation of the creatures when the movie was released onto home video in the 1900s.

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The fact that it wasn't shown in the movie is a perfect example of how it is unnecessary to go back and explain everything. It was mysterious. It made people wonder and use their imaginations. At that time, the species was a lot more alien simply because we didn't know the details, and the film was stronger for it. Some of us who were interested researched what the film makers had in mind by reading books and magazines and so built up a picture of how the life cycle might work. The seven years before the release of ALIENS was plenty of time to build up a reasonable opinion. An opinion that needed to be changed in 1986.

Jeyl said:

And before I leave, how do you know that just because there's an Alien Queen that the Aliens still can't make their own eggs by morphing living victims into eggs? It can work both ways if you write it right.

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Wait that's not canon - that wasn't in any of the movies! Actually, I rather like that idea. It's a nice compromise.

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Ridley Scott

Slight character spoilers below:

Earlier this month a rumor was floating around that Ridley Scott's Alien prequel was getting pushed back to 2013 — not any more! A new report busts this rumor, reveals the official movie title, and spills new character details.

New York Magazine is reporting that the whole idea of pushing back the movie's release date had to do with the availability of Leonardo DiCaprio (a favorite actor for Ridley). Apparently insiders were claiming that Ridley was hoping to cast Leo in the production, and thus toying with the idea of pushing back production to accommodate Leo's schedule. That didn't work out, so the production will begin as planned next March.

NY Mag has also revealed that the official name of the prequel will be Paradise. (We're skeptical because it's just a little too ironic for our tastes) but we could see it billed as Alien: Paradise or something... who knows.)

But also, NY Mag's sources promise that this movie will be a return to the original Alien movie style (alien face hugs, alien chest bursts, alien kills crew members one by one, carnage). So hooray for the return to the classic monster style.

And finally three new characters have also been revealed:

First there's David the android, "an earlier version of the Bishop 341-B." Allegedly Ridley wanted Michael Fassbender of Inglourious Basterds fame to play this character — but sadly, that may not happen due to botched negotiations. Next up is Vickers, "a fortysomething, tough-but-sexy woman," hopefully to be played by Michelle Yeoh, once Fox gives Paradise *eye roll* a budget. The last character revealed is called Engineer 1, and we suspect this will be some type of new alien, since the magazine's sources claim he will be played by a 6'5" actor and will be entirely CGI.

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Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

But also, NY Mag's sources promise that this movie will be a return to the original Alien movie style (alien face hugs, alien chest bursts, alien kills crew members one by one, carnage). So hooray for the return to the classic monster style.

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Yawn... so basically a rehash of Alien and Alien3... meaning... something we've already seen before.

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Please god, devil or sun.... no DiCrapio!

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Chris Petrikin (20thFoxCC) on Twitter

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

AvPGalaxy – H.R. Giger for Alien Prequel?

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

alienscollection.com said:

AvPGalaxy – H.R. Giger for Alien Prequel?

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Wow... how incredible would that be!!!

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

alienscollection.com said:

avpgalaxy – h.r. Giger for alien prequel?

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oh hell yes!!!!!

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

It'd be nice to get Giger. Still, nothing in Giger's work for the last 30 years gives any indication that he could repeat the trick of showing us a truly alien texture a second time. No one should be expecting that of him, nor should we want it of him. The man's fulfilled his task. What he gave us was an unrepeatable culture shock. Expecting him to thrill us as he did in Alien is like asking Picasso to make a second revolution as important as Cubism.

Forgot about this thread, so thanks to Knightjar for defending the point I made about how the alien sequels' explanation of the creatures' life cycle reduces the mystique established by the first film. I'd add: the alien queen was visually good (an excellent Giger pastiche, proving you don't need the man himself for re-hashes of his style), but her 'mother-watching-her-brood' psychology was a disappointing replacement for the stark, alienating nihilism of the creature in the first film. As was the sight of the aliens taking orders. Cameron gave us the familiar - instead of extending the sense of the unknown, he injected the familiar into Giger and Scott's masterpiece of The New. This is vandalism, iconoclasm. My reaction to the exposition of the creatures' methods of organisation was, 'Oh, right, the aliens think quite like people after all, and they live in an ant-hive. Ho hum.' The queen was an especially unfortunate piece of needless exposition because we could relate to her too much. She even invites sympathy when Ripley torches all her kids, thus further undermining the psychological impact of the first film's creature and its remarkable status as the most potent modern update of the Gothic demon from Hell ever seen.

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Colin Droidmilk said:

Ho hum.' The queen was an especially unfortunate piece of needless exposition because we could relate to her too much. She even invites sympathy when Ripley torches all her kids

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Not from me. Remember, this is a creature that not only wants her children to rape you to death, but she considers women and children fair game. I fail to see how sympathy even comes into play after knowing that.

Seriously, even with the Queen I still have so many unanswered questions about how a Queen comes into being. Is it just one regular alien that grows into a queen, or is it.... several aliens combining into one? That's how I thought of it since the darn thing has four arms.

I stand by ALIENS 110% even with the Queen in all her functions. At least she's not a blatant contradiction to her entire race when compared to the Borg Queen. Maybe that's what Aliens was missing. The Alien Queen making out with Bishop.

:eek :sick

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Maybe I just have too much empathy, lol. I'd feel sympathy for a tiger shot dead as it lunged at me. Still, I wanted the alien in Alien smeared, and remained absolutely unmoved at its demise because the first film had this brutal simplicity with the creature being basically a vicious, murdering ghoul, functioning as a terrifying new phantom on which we could project our most ancient nightmares (Scott's Gothic Nostromo is no accident), whereas in Aliens, because of the queen/hive setup we get more a sense of these things being creatures just 'doing their thing', doing what they have to do to make their way in life, as Grant from Jurassic Park might say. In a way that's interesting, and I do think Cam was trying to give you conflicting emotions re the beasties. Ripley rating them morally higher than humans over the question of 'the buck', comes to mind, too. Even so, interesing or not, it just dilutes the pure horror of the first one.

Anyway, I do rate the film highly for what it is - a great SF action movie. 'Aliens' is only a problem for me when re-watching 'Alien', and I have to struggle to wipe from my mind the familiar-from-earth aspects of the creatures' behaviour patterns - oh, and their complete vulnerability to firearms.

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Endless exposition is what has killed some of the greatest movie franchises of all time.

As has been said, the horror of these creatures comes from what you dont see and dont know about them.

With the proliferation (spelling lol?) of CGI directors have been able to start showing anything and everything to the audience. Ideas that they had twenty years ago had to remain idea because they simply couldnt be done. That was a very very good thing!

They had to think long and hard about what they could show. Again a very very good thing.

Couple that with the fact that films are now primarily made for a teenage audience, and any chance we have of a good movie is all but gone

The only saving grace here is Ridleys involvement. He is a man capable of making hit an miss films, but its not often they are total ****. So maybe we have a chance.

Weequay

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Colin,

Your ideas about Alien are incredibly intriguing and are making me look at that film very differently. However, based on what you are saying and what draws you to Alien, wouldn't it be almost entirely impossible to do a second movie? Any additional footage is bound to provide additional information and additional information means less mystique. The only way to make a second movie and maintain the mystique would be to add additional information that is purposefully confusing and I think we would reject that immediately. Just out of curiosity, how do you envision a second film that wouldn't ultimately damage the first?

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

The main problem is that it can't just be a rehash of the first film.. he'll need to do something fresh.

Re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

OK, I know how to make this film completely epic. Mr. Scott, are you listening.

Bear with me guys...



We open on Earth after Ripley & Cole have their little heart to heart at the end of Resurrection. We soon discover that they somehow traveled through some form of time vortex on their return to Earth. Maybe by Ripley meeting her mother and her infant self.

Realizing that she now has a chance to undo all of the terrible things that have happened/ will happen, she stows away on a prison ship that happens to be passing by the planet we later know as "LB-429".

Because the ship has no intention of stopping there, Ripley conspires to crash the ship so she can eliminate the alien menace before the events of the original film.

After the crash, Ripley is of course discovered by the all male crew and the inmates. (We can throw in a few females to make the upcoming sex scenes more interesting, but it's not required) Of course, one of the harder core inmate will force himself upon her, causing the feral alien inside her to emerge.

Now an Alien bent on propagating her species Ripley proceeds to seduce every man(and woman if you insist) on the ship.

About this time, and giant, alien surveyor lands to investigate to distress beacon of the derelict (Yup) prison ship, only to discover that the passengers are all afflicted, in progressive degrees, with an unexplained illness.

In a hidden area, the prisoner who first forced himself on the now missing Ripley begins to convulse as his abdomen swells severely until an egg tears him in half.

The alien surveyor, trying to help the passengers, eventually discovers the egg, and is unexpectedly beset by a face hugger.

When he comes to, the ship is filled with eggs and carrion. In a panic, he dashes to his ships transmitter (large & telescope looking device with a chair) only to encounter Ripley who pins him down. Sniffs at him, (recognizing him as infested), and runs off despite his protests.

As he reaches his transmitter, he realizes something is wrong, but straps himself in, and with a desperate force of will, sends his warning beacon just before his chest explodes, releasing the newborn beast.

*Surprise!* Ripley appears from nowhere, snatches her child, says something that will later be iconic, and destroys it.

*********

Time lapse 30 years.

The now aged, and mostly bestial Ripley looks to the sky, and scurries to hide behind a rock outcropping as the Nostromo sets down.

We close in on a single tear on Ripley's now hard, black skin. We pan out slowly to see her now chrome teeth in a vicious grin, dripping acid.

The alien tongue, teeth and all, bursts from her mouth as we cut to...

*Credits*















































What...?