Ridley Scott Prometheus: NOT the Alien Prequel Details

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Totally agree re the Derelict. The atmosphere station could have been a Tsar Bomba and still not taken the thing out. It was a week's drive away over rough terrain and a mountain range; there's no way the shockwave at ground level would have hurt it. Or probably an exposed human for that matter. This is something designed to withstand FTL interstellar travel and atmospheric re-entry. The cloud of dust the size of Nebraska may have happened, but that's atmospheric. It'd make more sense to say the volcano which damaged it previously erupted again, if you absolutely have to have the Derelict wiped out.

As for the "cave", it sure looks like part of the ship to me! (The alien goo coatings we saw in Aliens were nowhere near as structured and regular.) What happens in the film is that the crew enters the ship at almost ground level, climbs to the Jockey's dome chamber, which is at the very top of the ship, then lower Kane into a room below the floor of that. The ship is hundreds of feet wide in all, so all in all I think the likeliest explanation is that the room is located in the middle bulk of the ship; the crew just climbed *past* it through the labyrinth of internal passages. The edits while they're inside the ship's passages are not linear or "real time"; also I think this is supported by the matte and concept art - in paintings you can see that the room's shape follows the 'elbow' curves at the ends of the central section of the ship.

Your idea is harking back to the original script version though, where the creatures came from the native-built pyramid, and the derelict WAS just an unlucky visitor.

Personally, I do also hope the Jockey is already dead on LV-426 at the time of the prequel. Adds that bit more mystery and whatnot.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Nwerke said:

As for the "cave", it sure looks like part of the ship to me!

Click to expand...

Well... it looks exactly like the Space Jockey chamber. This is because when shooting the "cave" scene... all they did was remove the Space Jockey from the set. They reused the set for the "cave".

Trust me I've always believed it was a cargo hold until recently. Of course it is all supposition on my part- I have no evidence.


Oh and I totally agree about hoping the Jockey is already dead- I don't want the mystery ruined as well.

Kevin

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Yeah, yeah! Those big concave ribs were all fibreglass castings btw. They just removed the Jockey platform and added the transverse floor rib things, oh and eggs obviously.

The room itself was subscale, as was the Jockey. Would have been great to see a room built to scale with Giger's concept art. My god - huge!

What I wouldn't give to have a couple of those fibreglass panels.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

SSgt Burton said:

What if that "cave" on LV-426 (that Kane lowers himself into) was there before the Derelict? What if it wasn't a part of the ship itself (which has always been assumed).

Click to expand...

As Nwerke said, the detailing on the walls in the space jockey room and down in the egg chamber - the bone structures are in both. I highly doubt it wasn't part of the ship from the beginning. Looked way too integrated into the whole design of the ship and of the space jockey itself having some of the same anatomical features as the alien creature.

SSgt Burton said:

But since this prequel only takes place a mere 30 years before the events of ALIEN, it would negate this "fossilized for thousands of years" theory.

That is if the story takes place before/during the Jockey's flight to LV-426.

Click to expand...

Yeah... there is no telling whether the space jockey will be alive or sitting fossilized as we saw him in the first Alien. But... having another crew go to the same crashed ship and getting infected is rather stupid.

But then again... I really don't want to see the space jockey alive or learn anything about it. Ruins the mystery... so Ridley has to have a cool idea for having to go back there...

Nwerke said:

What I wouldn't give to have a couple of those fibreglass panels.

Click to expand...

Seconded. The whole design is so haunting and beautiful.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Too Much Garlic said:

As long as he stays away from those artsy camera moves and camera tricks he's been using in later films that is more an annoyance than anything interesting and go back to a normal camera operation this may be interesting. Bust any Gladiator flickering or GI-Jane zoom-in-zoom-out all the time and I'm walking out and asking for my money back, as I didn't go to the movies to get sea-sick.

Click to expand...

YES! His strobe-stutter camera crap looks so bad. Such a tacky gimmick from a once-talented director. He had the guts to linger so lovingly on his shots in Alien and BR. Now, he's just as condescending as every other director who thinks we'll fall asleep if he's not jumping around trying to give us all seizures.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

cayman shen said:

YES! His strobe-stutter camera crap looks so bad. Such a tacky gimmick from a once-talented director. He had the guts to linger so lovingly on his shots in Alien and BR. Now, he's just as condescending as every other director who thinks we'll fall asleep if he's not jumping around trying to give us all seizures.

Click to expand...

Also, he seriously blotted his visual design credentials in Gladiator by choosing a cheesy made-up fantasy helmet for Crowe instead of an authentic Roman piece.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Too Much Garlic said:

I highly doubt it wasn't part of the ship from the beginning. Looked way too integrated into the whole design of the ship and of the space jockey itself having some of the same anatomical features as the alien creature.

Click to expand...

This idea that the room is a cave descends from the cutting of the scenes of the crew entering the ship. You get the impression that they find the pilot at ground level - people don't realize that the pilot's chamber is so high up.

Unfortunately the idea has been in circulation quite widely for years, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's been semi-canonized in some comic or whatever by now. Or to see it canonized in the prequel.

Anyone know the current whereabouts/condition of the derelict model? It was extant as of the start of the decade, but now?

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Nwerke said:

Anyone know the current whereabouts/condition of the derelict model? It was extant as of the start of the decade, but now?

Click to expand...

Doesn't Bob Burns have it?

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Not any more, it was sold (auctioned) some years back. Fate since is unknown AFAIK.

It was in desperately bad condition, but it was miraculous the thing was recognisable at all given the construction technique - steel frame, polystyrene foam blocks placed over that and sculpted, then sulphur-based clay on top of that, then wires and electronic components pressed in, then paint. A work of art, but if only they'd used it as a moulding master instead of the final miniature! Almost all the clay was gone, in the most recent public-domain pics.

God, I love that ship. Stupid, stupid unrequited loves!

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Why would they waste time and money on molding and casting it when it was only needed for very few shots... and they had the master? Doesn't make sense.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

For POSTERITY, of course!!! Didn't they *realize* they were making a timeless masterpiece!?!?!

No, of course they had no reason to waste time and money that way. I entirely understand that.

It just, y'know, would have been nice if for some reason they *had*.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Nwerke said:

This idea that the room is a cave descends from the cutting of the scenes of the crew entering the ship. You get the impression that they find the pilot at ground level - people don't realize that the pilot's chamber is so high up.

Click to expand...

Here's the thing- "canon" to me is what I see onscreen. And unfortunately at no time during that sequence do I get the impression that Kane, Dallas and Lambert went "up" to the Space Jockey chamber, to then proceed "down" to the egg chamber.

As for the "cave" looking much like the ship itself... everything about LV-426 from the Derelict to the Jockey to LV-426 itself was designed by Giger. Even the landscape of LV-426 looks similar to the Derelict- it has that Giger "effect" to it.

So it stands to reason that a "cave" on LV-426 has that Giger-ized look to it. Or perhaps the interior of the Derelict looks like the cave (not the other way around)... because the aliens converted it to look that way before they died off. I mean all we see of the interior of the Derelict are the Jockey Chamber and cave.

But again... all supposition.

the space jockey itself having some of the same anatomical features as the alien creature.

Click to expand...

Of course the Alien looks "similar" to the Space Jockey as they were both designed by Giger and that it has been established in A3 that the Alien takes on the traits of its host.


The thing that got me going in this direction is Kane's line "A cave! A cave of some sort!"

He didn't call it a "hold" or "chamber" etc.

It is miniscule and probably nothing- but I do like extrapolating what could be read between the lines.

To me it's like an episode of The Twilight Zone- in which the twist at the end is that the scenario that appears to be happening for the first time, has actually played itself out several times before- perhaps for centuries.

Kevin

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Actually, if you want to settle the issue, dig around for the quotes from Ridley.. he said outright at some point that the ship was transporting the eggs when it crashed.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Jedi2016 said:

I'd imagine they didn't get more than a few hundred miles from the colony. Combine that with Bishop's statement about a "ball of dust the size of Nebraska" from the explosion, and it's very likely that the ship was caught in it. Whether it was completely vaporized or simply blown to pieces, we have no idea.

Click to expand...

Just watched the movie. The Nebraska line of dialogue was said as they were about to venture right into ground zero and was an exaggeration. Earlier, when he showed off the ventilation exhaust due to the dropship crash causing the eventual nuclear explosion he stated pretty specifically that the blast-radius would be 30 kilometres.

If they were taking a week to get there and back over rough terrain... it's pretty obvious they didn't stay within the blast radius at all, so the Derelict wasn't taken out by the thermo-nuclear explosion.

SSgt Burton said:

Of course the Alien looks "similar" to the Space Jockey as they were both designed by Giger and that it has been established in A3 that the Alien takes on the traits of its host.

Click to expand...

That's not an "of course". The aliens we see didn't come out of the space jockey, so there should be no reason they share anatomical similarities, unless they are part of the same "species" or "fabrication".

Always thought they were genetically produced weapons of war - the space jockey was pilots and the aliens were the ground based weapons of some other unseen species. Perhaps Ridley will get more into that. However... the more we are to learn... the less it makes sense that the Company sends Nostromo to the Derelict - it seems Nostromo passed the Derelict by accident rather than they were specifically sent there... but it would make sense that if the company knew that there were other species out there or leftovers of their civilization and weapons littered across space that all ships they send out could have secret orders only implemented if the ships comes across something. It just wouldn't be logical if the species that is responsible for the derelict, space jockey and the alien creature to still exist... or The Company would have been more up front about it and not playing it on the low to get to the weapon - if the other species was out there and the Company wanted the "alien weapon" to use against them... I don't think something like that could or would be kept secret - more would know: government, military, perhaps not population... but more would know, if there was a war going.

The only thing that makes sense and the reason why they are playing it so close to the chest is that it is dead alien tech they want to use in bio-warfare against other people - perhaps settlers who are not doing what they like and want independence. We certainly hear that places are terraformed and people living there have evolved. Have they met other alien lifeforms - the meeting at the beginning of Aliens may suggest no... but though, they do only comment on that nothing like what Ripley describes regarding the alien has been found... so doesn't exclude other alien life.

But since this is a prequel... and it didn't seem like they were aware of alien life in the Ridley movie... it just seems unlikely that they have met anything other than human settlers on their travels. Only human.




Another thing. When at the hearing Ripley said that Kane had said that he saw thousands of eggs on the Derelict, but during the movie, she suddenly switches to wondering about who's laying the eggs. Never thought of that before, but it seems like such an out of place switch from knowing there were thousands of eggs... to suddenly starting the conversation that leads to the discussion about the queen - I know it was to set that up... but still a bit strange.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Too Much Garlic said:

Looked way too integrated into the whole design of the ship and of the space jockey itself having some of the same anatomical features as the alien creature.

Click to expand...

Too Much Garlic said:

The aliens we see didn't come out of the space jockey, so there should be no reason they share anatomical similarities, unless they are part of the same "species" or "fabrication".

Click to expand...

So which is it?

Just curious.


Kevin

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Nwerke said:

God, I love that ship. Stupid, stupid unrequited loves!

Click to expand...

Me too. Giger's paintings of it are masterpieces of modern art that totally transcend the SF genre that called them into being. He was a Great Artist, a late-born surrealist, for heaven's sake, a worthy heir to the mantles worn by Dali and Max Ernst. The aesthetic he invented is so powerful it actually competes with that of the original Surrealists. Indeed, he earned the admiration of Dali himself.

This is what Scott was so fortunate to latch onto in Giger. Scott was playing host to one of the great cultural events of the 20th Century; he was able to introduce to the world, via his film, one of the greatest visionaries of all time. Revolutions such as Giger's don't happen often; in fact, all Giger himself can do now is repeat himself, he can't come up with a whole new equally compelling aesthetic, and how could he be expected to? Which is why all reboots of Alien are doomed to live in the shadow of the first film. And it's why, for me at least, all talk of the back story to the derelict is almost pathetically irrelevant compared to its value as pure image.

(Yeah, I know, I should bugger off to an art forum, and do my art lectures there, heh, heh...)

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Too Much Garlic said:

Another thing. When at the hearing Ripley said that Kane had said that he saw thousands of eggs on the Derelict, but during the movie, she suddenly switches to wondering about who's laying the eggs. Never thought of that before, but it seems like such an out of place switch from knowing there were thousands of eggs... to suddenly starting the conversation that leads to the discussion about the queen - I know it was to set that up... but still a bit strange.

Click to expand...

Well, she never bumped into any eggs during the first film (theatrical version at least), and that if there was going to be any eggs, it would need a living host, which is not what the alien was doing (Again, only in the theatrical version).

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

SSgt Burton said:

So which is it?
Just curious.
Kevin

Click to expand...

Which is what? They are the same genetic fabrication? To the best of my knowledge that has not really been revealed, now has it!

The aliens we see weren't born from the space jockey, so why they share anatomical similarities with the space jockey when born from people and dogs/cows can only mean that they are part of the same species or genetically engineered fabrication by some third unknown species we haven't seen yet.

Which goes back to my earlier comment that the space jockey is a genetically engineered pilot and the aliens are a genetically engineered ground based weapon just dropped on an inhabited planet the "masters" want to take over or whatever reason they want with the place. Maybe they just feel that all other intelligent life is an affront to their religion or their own superiority so they just send in the jockeyed spaceships with payloads of alien egg bombs to exterminate everything. Who knows their reasons.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Jeyl said:

Well, she never bumped into any eggs during the first film (theatrical version at least), and that if there was going to be any eggs, it would need a living host, which is not what the alien was doing (Again, only in the theatrical version).

Click to expand...

The hearing scene was in the theatrical cut of Aliens. So... what are you implying? There is an illogical switch from knowing there are thousands of eggs at the Derelict to suddenly wondering who's laying the eggs just to set up the Queen. Who cares who's laying eggs when there are already thousands of them. No need for an egg-layer.

re: Ridley Scott: Alien Prequel Details

Too Much Garlic said:

There is an illogical switch from knowing there are thousands of eggs at the Derelict to suddenly wondering who's laying the eggs just to set up the Queen.

Click to expand...

If you listen to her, she states "But each one of these things comes from an egg." See? Not so illogical.