X-Wing Research: Differences Between the Hero and Pyro Models

Just wanted to pull this information out of a few other threads and have a place to discuss the original X-Wing miniatures constructed for Star Wars, in particular, the construction similarities and differences between the hero and pyro models.

Sounds like a plan. I'm no expert, but here's what I recall:

* overall fuse length differs (shorter on pyros...or is it?! LOL controversy!)
* pyro wings cast instead of built-up, so the cutouts on the inner surfaces don't have edges that you can see under
* pyro fuses cast in left/right halves instead of top/bottom
* some pyros equipped with simple sticks instead of cast laser cannons
* some pyros equipped with simplified laser cannon lacking heatsinks
* some pyro markings and paint very rough
* no wing mechanism on pyros

Must be oodles I've missed, yeah?

I would put money on Red 4 being the source of the pyros. We know exactly what a pryo wing should look like based on the photo in the Sculpting a Galaxy book. Infact all four wings are identical which makes it easier to identify a pyro.

The pyro wing has a few unique surface details that should be easily detected in any photo shown of an X-Wing. The top of the wing has a large rectangular chip that should be easily spotted (indicated by a yellow arrow below) which isn't there on Red 1,2 & 5. Other people will have to confirm whether Red3 has it but Red 4 clearly does.


Because the topside details of Red4 match the pyro I would be very surprised if the underside didn't match also. The underside has quite a few details that should be fairly easy to spot in other photos. Inside the square shape indent are three retangular strips which should cast some shadow if they exist on other heros. I see no evidence of these on Red's 1,2 or 5. Don't know about Red3.

See pic below, the red arrows show the details unique to a pyro casting.


So what this must prove is that either Red 4 is the donor for the pyros or Red 4 is infact just another pyro.

Red four, in that photo I posted above, is a pyro.
(edited - poop.)

Well, lookie here - Red 4 wing, with contrast bumped up... sure enough, the landmarks match. Beaz, you own a Red 4 casting - effing awesome.

Crap - hold the phone. I see a seam in one pic, with contrast cranked, that runs along the top/bottom.

So the Red 4 pics are a Pyro. Hero Red 4 is still MIA.
:cry

Okay, going through the files. That "pyro Red 4" sure looks like it's painted to be a hero - not sloppy like most pyros, and it has some of those dry transfer markings you see on the Falcon, etc etc. Decal shards, too. Freakin' weird.

Here's the Elstree pic. Red or blue - can't be sure, but that is the Red Y (my fave also) for sure:




These are all of Red 3, hero, circa 2005:

Yeah, that's what I was wondering, whether or not the wing wells in the Red 4 pics have the undercut, like those Red 3 wings, or are one solid casting like the pyro wings.

For those wondering what the heck we're talking about, by looking at decent pictures of the original models, it's clear that several, though possibly not all, of the "hero" models had wings built out of clear acrylic framing, for strength and durability, covered with sheet styrene for scribing and painting. As a result, the wings of the hero models are sandwiched, with the plastic sheet overhanging the frame and creating the undercuts visible in the wing wells, like this:



Since the pyro wings were intended to be cast solid using resin, these undercuts had to be clayed in on the original pattern. As a result, there are no undercuts or voids in the pyro wings.

So, Jason, based on what you know about the Red 4 pics you've been looking at, would it be safe to say that we might need to adjust our assumptions about what separates a "hero" model from a "pyro?"

For example, it seems to me that not all of the hero models required wings that open and close, which was one of the more time consuming and expensive parts of the job of constructing a "hero" model. It may be that only Reds 2,3 and 5 were built this way. I leave out Red 1 because I'm not sure about that one. Do we know if Red 1's wings were motorized?

What if, after building several heroes essentially from scratch, minus the fuselage, which was likely the first - and perhaps for a time, only - component to be cast in resin, the modelers simply reached a point where it was no longer efficient or even necessary to be building all of these armatures, guns, wings, wiring harnesses, and/or applying custom surface detailing by hand for the remaining complement of X-Wing models?

What if the idea of casting up combinations of parts as discrete components and gang molds for everything was not simply a way to get the necessary pyro models built, but one or more of the remaining hero models as well?

Those are excellent questions to ask one of the model builders, next time someone from the community has an audience with them. Of course, they'll think we're crazy, but hey - maybe they remember

And while I personally am open to the idea of separating the "Hero from Pyro" rules that we have (when it comes to Red 4 and 6), I'm completely expecting someone to eventually disprove it and produce pics of a Red 4 or 6 hero.

I want to believe.

Anyone here have a pipeline to Dykstra to ask him a question?

-... . .- --.. said:

it's clear that several, though possibly not all, of the "hero" models had wings built out of clear acrylic framing, for strength and durability, covered with sheet styrene for scribing and painting.

Click to expand...

More specifically, the outer wing surfaces are acrylic, and the inner wing surfaces are styrene. Interestingly, at least some of the acrylic wings appear to have been scribed on both sides.

-... . .- --.. said:

would it be safe to say that we might need to adjust our assumptions about what separates a "hero" model from a "pyro?"

Click to expand...

This is what I said back in 2002. Remember that the "pyro" nomenclature basically comes from the notoriously unreliable Chronicles, and the reasoning for the left/right rather than top/bottom split has generally been held to be that the top/bottom miniatures wouldn't explode properly (I don't know exactly where this idea originates). This strikes me as unlikely - pyro miniatures are typically pre-scored so that they'll break in a predicted fashion both for aesthetic and safety reasons. A more compelling reason for the left/right split would be that it would provide more robust support for the fixed wings. The original "hero" miniatures must have been somewhat unwieldly to work with.

The fact that most of the X-wings that we see in the finished movie are "hero" miniatures can be explained by the fact that 20th Century Fox wouldn't pay the extra cash that Lucas asked for to complete the effects photography.

That's an excellent point, Ray. Perhaps a quotient of the 24" X-wings were never really shot, like the four-footer in Jedi!

RKW, that chip *does* exist on Red 5, IIRC. I am not at my usual PC so can't check, but doesn't the white outline show on the Revell pics? Everyone puts it on their Salzo builds, anyway, LOL.

Regarding armatures and wing actuation. Wasn't there a story that different wing mechanisms were tried, and that the X-wings ended up with a deeper hull than originally intended because of that? In the published pics it's pretty clear that there were at least two different mechanisms built - there's the simple four-way x-shaped central hinge, and another ship in the background with each wing on what looks like a separate axle/motor. Unless anyone knows better, I suspect that one is Red 5. A mechanism like that would really require more space, and Red 5 had the tallest "butt plate". Can anyone who has seen the remains comment?

I reckon Red 1,2 and 3 shared the same mech Martyn, Red 1 (im sure its Red 1 due to the Saturn V cans fitted) is depicted in Sci Fi and fantasy modeller as using the "scissor" unit, driven by what looks to be an RC spur gear.
Reds 2 and 3 look to have slots cut in the hull for these "scissor" levers to actuate open fully, but they do not seem apparent on Red Leader?
Ive never seen Red 5's armature so cant say on that one!

lee

I wish to thank you fellas for participating in this thread. You are ALL doing this hobby a great service! Especially to the Star Wars community!

BEAZ... great job in starting it!

Beaz, agreed on the plexi, me and a couple of friends share the same sentiment, and have the same plans lol, the inners of the wings look to be around 2mm styrene, maybe thinner...and i love the undercuts in the wells, hence i want to have full hero wings too.

lee

I dunno - Red 4's droid is a conehead, which seems really contrary to everything else we've seen out there - I have no idea what the "deal" is with the careful paint job and one-off droid on a seemingly unused "Pyro" X (and sorry for the obfuscation, but you get the gist):

Great pic, my guess, Red 2, cant see the cans too well, but im going with 2!

lee

In the interest of making this thread a clearing-house of info...

Here's another shot of a hero armature. By the way, this is the next machined project we're making (to fit the V3), once we wrap up the ESB AT-ST armature. Woo woo!




So is this Red 6? It has a red canopy, and I think it has six stripes.... sometimes it looks like 5, sometimes it looks like 6....



Red 1, easy to ID weathering on the fuselage:



Blue 1 (later Red 2) and Red 1:



Blue 1 (later Red 2):



Blue 1/Red 2 when Ken took pics a couple of years back:

J, the pic of the Red 6 with (Mc'cune) masking up, i always see that as Red 5 TBH bud, Red 5 does seem to have red panels on its right side that, in some pics, look as if grey was painted over them?
I always see 5 stripes on this pic for some reason too!

lee

Yeah, the outer plate is acrylic while the inner is styrene. The plexi plate is thicker than the styrene one. The lower round shape of the intakes is also acrylic tubing cut in half with a U channel glued on the lip.

Here's a fragment of a Red 4 wing, from the Bob Burns collection. It doesn't match any of the wings in the Red 4 "hero pyro" pics.