Prop Store

Original Golden Idol from Raiders here...

SFPROPS said:
That's a sweet idol, but I'm pretty sure gold vac-metalization for something that big wouldn't be anywhere that expensive. That's not to say that the $500 price for the one offered isn't fair, because I think it is given what you get. :)

ps. I thought there was a version of the idol with gold eyes, but with the pupils drilled out. That's what it looks like in the shots from Hawaii.
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I think if you were going to do several pieces at one time you could get the cost down greatly, but a one off vacumetalizing has pretty much the same set-up costs as plating. I know for a fact that to get this plated it would cost at least $500 and VM'd around the same.

In regards to the "drilled eyes" I believe that has been all but disproved by Agent 5 and Don. There is no evidence to support it at all.

Brad
 
I am glad you posted Don. I had been of the "painted pupils" mind before I saw your post and seeing that you think so too made my mind up.

Based on a picture I have of the archives idols I would say that there was one mold for the idol and some were cut into 2 parts and sanded around those areas prior to vacuum-metalizing.

As I said before, I think the stuntmen and Ford would have used the one part idol for running around (much easier than keeping 2 parts together IMO) which has golden eyes with pupils supposedly painted on or even, dare I say, markered.







artoo77 said:
Perhaps I can clear some of this up...and allow all of you to further this debate.

The two idols in the archives ARE original. One has glass eyes, one doesn't. They are hollow fiberglass castings. The one with the glass eyes has a detachable back, with the seam running along the hairline and the back ridge. It has the bar inside as shown in the pics already posted, as well as the magnetic "latching" mechanism.

When I first started at the archives in 1988, the glass eye version (GE) was in similar condition to the one pictured in the Prop Store images. It was broken as well...as a matter of fact, had someone shown me those photos out of context, I would say they were taken in the late 80s of the GE Idol in the archives.

In 1993, Hata International launched an exhibit in Japan of many of the items in the archives. It wasn't limited to Star Wars; it included Indiana Jones, Willow, Tucker...and even Howard the Duck. As part of that exhibit, they paid for an extensive restoration effort for about 200 items. By that point in time, many things were quite neglected. The two idols were restored then.

For the restoration, both were stripped of the remaining gold plating (it looked like vacuum-metalizing to me); the broken bits were glued back together, and everything sanded smooth to make it look good...perhaps too good. It did look much too clean and not like the original once it came back from the VM, in my opinion.

The Lucasfilm Archive book that has been published was actually the exhibit catalog, written originally in Japanese. Since the two idols, C-3P0 and the Ark were out being VM'd at the time, we couldn't photograph them for the catalog. Hence, there is no photo of 3P0 in the book; a photo of the second damaged, non-restored Ark; and a photo of a casting of the Idol spray painted gold. This Idol was actually a present to Mr. Hata for organizing the exhibit.

Since I can confirm two versions of the idol exist, I think it still leaves the door open to debate as to whether or not the Hawaiian scenes has eyes or not. It was always my opinion that it didn't, and I don't think those screen grabs are conclusive evidence that there are glass eyes in there. The eyes are ill fitting in the one in the archives; there's tiny gaps between the eyes and the lids. I don't see that same fit in the Hawaii scene, nor is there much evidence of the seam line to get those eyes in there. There does appear to be a pupil, but that could've been painted on. Given my experience with 3P0 and the reflective issues the gold VM creates, it could be some odd reflection, but it wouldn't be consistent. My opinion is that they're gold eyes with painted pupils...but that's my opinion.

Let the debate continue...

--Don Bies
Click to expand...
 
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Jedifyfe said:
I think if you were going to do several pieces at one time you could get the cost down greatly, but a one off vacumetalizing has pretty much the same set-up costs as plating. I know for a fact that to get this plated it would cost at least $500 and VM'd around the same.

In regards to the "drilled eyes" I believe that has been all but disproved by Agent 5 and Don. There is no evidence to support it at all.

Brad
Click to expand...

What do you mean exactly when you say set-up costs ? there is no set-up there are no tools or moving parts or moulds or anything in either proccess the cost is in materials and time.
I would have thought vac metalizing was a fair bit cheaper than true gold plating.
 
defstartrooper said:
What do you mean exactly when you say set-up costs ? there is no set-up there are no tools or moving parts or moulds or anything in either proccess the cost is in materials and time.
I would have thought vac metalizing was a fair bit cheaper than true gold plating.
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According to Jeff (Gobler) the vacuplating had set up costs and cost him several hundred dollars per idol and he got a really good deal because of the number of idols, though I could be mistaken. No matter, the VM does cost several hundred dollars, not like it's only $100 or $200. Plus with VM and Plating you have to make sure that ever little micro-hole, airbubble, crack or seam is perfect or you get a pit or black spot. If you don't do this you have to pay someone to do this and that could be costly. I do know that plating this idol would cost you minimum of $400-$500.
 
Jedifyfe said:
I think if you were going to do several pieces at one time you could get the cost down greatly, but a one off vacumetalizing has pretty much the same set-up costs as plating. I know for a fact that to get this plated it would cost at least $500 and VM'd around the same.
Click to expand...

There are places that charge like that I'm sure, and in fact one of the companies that does vac-metalization work for a lot of the studios prop departments charge a flat fee like that because they don't have a lot of local competition (probably who Jeff uses).

BUT....you can get it done A LOT cheaper. Here's one such place:

http://mmmetalizing.com/pricing.html

You can spend outrageous amounts like that, but you don't have to.
 
SFPROPS said:
There are places that charge like that I'm sure, and in fact one of the companies that does vac-metalization work for a lot of the studios prop departments charge a flat fee like that because they don't have a lot of local competition (probably who Jeff uses).

BUT....you can get it done A LOT cheaper. Here's one such place:

http://mmmetalizing.com/pricing.html

You can spend outrageous amounts like that, but you don't have to.
Click to expand...

Yes I know them. They have the parts shipped to them and then shipped back to you. Very expensive when each idol is 5 lbs. The Co I use is the same who Vac-metalized 3PO as well as the Ark and Idols in Raiders. And yes, they do have a minimum charge but when I did the math it was actuality cheaper taking the idols direct to get plated and pick them up. I held in my hands two idols used during filming. One was solid 5 lbs with painted pupils and the other was light weight foam plated for throwing. It was the one where Indy tosses it to Satipo.

Cheers,
Jeff

PS I am trying to get photos of both.... ;)
 
Hi guys,

Many thanks to Don Bies for his information.

If the frowning Idol seen in the Archives book was cast from one of the 2 Archives Idols, then the non Glass Eyed Idol in the Archives must also have the frowning face. This style is not seen in the film.

You have to consider the continuity of the Idols. The mechanical eyes version was the main hero, and the one seen the most clearly in the film. We know that they made fixed glass eyed versions that were essentially identical to the mechanical Idol, but without the mechanics and without the seam on the head. These were made to match the mechanical hero. Why then would they make a third version with gold plated eyes, that clearly did not match the one seen in close up in the temple? It would fly in the face of the theory of continuity.

There is no evidence of a version existing with painted pupils, aside from screen captures from the film that show pupils without clearly showing the edge of the cornea. This is just down to lighting and reflections. The Idols seen in the film with pupils have the full glass eyes, it is just not obvious.

Please take a look at this graphic as an illustration of the eyes. The black and white shot is an on set still of Ford holding an Idol next to the spiked Satipo. The edge of the cornea is clearly visible. The color shots are screencaptures from when Ford picks up the Idol next to the Satipo in the film. The glass eyes are not obvious, they even look gold.

IdolEyesIllustration.jpg


As for how the plating was done, I am not sure. It could be that it was not vacuum-metalized but leafed or finished in some other manner. The finish appears rough and uneven in the film, and it clearly did not hold up over time. I believe the finish would have had to have been applied after the Idol backplate was glued/puttied in place.

I was once told that the C-3PO pieces were finished through a process called "Styaniting." I could never find additional information on this process.

All of the OT C3PO costumes, the Idol and the Ark were built and finished in England. I can't see how a California plating company would have been involved in any way, at least for the film's productions. Perhaps they were involved with restorations or promotional pieces.

Regards,
-Brandon
The Prop Store of London
 
gobler said:
Yes I know them. They have the parts shipped to them and then shipped back to you. Very expensive when each idol is 5 lbs. The Co I use is the same who Vac-metalized 3PO as well as the Ark and Idols in Raiders. And yes, they do have a minimum charge but when I did the math it was actuality cheaper taking the idols direct to get plated and pick them up. I held in my hands two idols used during filming. One was solid 5 lbs with painted pupils and the other was light weight foam plated for throwing. It was the one where Indy tosses it to Satipo.

Cheers,
Jeff

PS I am trying to get photos of both.... ;)
Click to expand...

Jeff, is the company you use in England or the US?
 
HOLY MOLY!! That pic IS definitive!!! And that left one looks just like my Gobler idol except the mouth looks like the right one...

IdolComp.jpg


Brad
 
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Those were the two Idols I saw while at the archives. Also, the one on the left is exactly like the one I was able to study with its foam companion. Notice the silver in the nooks? Thats what I was told what mine would look like as well. BTW the Co is in Ca. They even new where the old ILM was in Van Nuys.

I understand that the props were created in the UK, I never said they were not. I only stated that some were shipped to Ca to be reworked for the production. It was a Co that ILM used in the past and they do all kinds of film work.
 
Davy Jones said:
matt.jpg



Posted with permission is a better picture of the two archive idols seen earlier in the thread.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

So I'm curious...

Do/did ALL the ILM real eyes versions have the oval mouth, and do/did all the ILM gold eye versions have the turned down mouth?

And WHY are there two different sculpts in the LFL archives? Was one version produced in England and one in the US?

Both these idols (at least inthe coloring of this image on my monitor) are fringing on the orange look of "gold chrome" vac-metalizing. Also the real eyes version has significant pock marks on the forehead. Was talking with a friend who knows more than I just today... My friend stated that any silicon molded piece can (and most likely will) retain silicon contamination that does not come off with mold release or other clensers, and will screw up the vac-metalized surface.

I have a vac-metalized T2 T-800 head, and that is exactly what it looks like, pock marks et al.
 
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The place that did the VM on those idols,the ark and C-3p0 for the last 20 years was Vacuum-Metalizing Inc. in Rancho Cucamonga.

Not sure why you're hesitant to name them, but I will go on record to say (in Mike Verta's words) THEY SUCK ASS. The most unprofessional, crap work I've ever seen came out of that place...we got stuck using them because they were the only place that would do small runs and they held us hostage. After they screwed up 3P0 days before it needed to ship to Sydney for Ep3, I vowed never to use them, and I told the owner that his work and people suck and I would do my best to discourage anybody from going there.

Now others might have had a better experience, but myself and three others from ILM had horrible experiences (over the course of 20 years) with them.

--Don Bies

gobler said:
Those were the two Idols I saw while at the archives. Also, the one on the left is exactly like the one I was able to study with its foam companion. Notice the silver in the nooks? Thats what I was told what mine would look like as well. BTW the Co is in Ca. They even new where the old ILM was in Van Nuys.

I understand that the props were created in the UK, I never said they were not. I only stated that some were shipped to Ca to be reworked for the production. It was a Co that ILM used in the past and they do all kinds of film work.
Click to expand...
 
Here's a pic showing the two piece I assume before the restoration VM was done.
Looks to be a different color resin than the propstore one.

7918301.jpeg
 

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