AA case begins
- Thread starter Jumpin Jax
- Start date
defstartrooper
Sr Member
We'll have no trial by Pokemon here i say !!!
tgreco
Sr Member
but if the UK court decides that AA has the intellectual property rights
(cuz unless I've not seen some hard to find artwork, the version of the stormtrooper that appeared in the film is pretty different then the actual design concept I've seen by McQuarrie....)
if AA can prove he did the sculpt in court, does that mean that LFL can't interfere any longer?
Studio Stasis
Sr Member
Rumor has it that John Mollo or someone like that sculpted the helmets prior to AA doing the fabrication. I don't know if that is true.
My biggest issue with AA isn't that he was brazen enough to sell someone elses intellectual property openly, and even advertising internationally.
It doesn't matter what the courts decide because in my mind he has already pulled a fast one. He can skate by on any loophole or judgement and that doesn't erase what he has done up to this point.
From what I can tell he made molds of a prototype casting and fettled the tumblehome or some crap and tried to make it look like an original 1976 mold created the product when in fact it didn't. A 1976 oddball casting, altered to look closer to a trooper helmet did. This is obvious with the comparisons of his hemlets and the prototype that was sold at Christies. If I were to alter the prototype to look like a film helmet, i'd end up with exactly what SDS sells, with all of the inherent flaws of the prototype.
Then he got caught recasting a fan suit while saying it was also from original molds and then got caught in another lie. He later changed his story and said they weren't all from original molds.
I'm sure he has prototypes and random helmet leftovers to make molds from but not only did he deceive the prop community with dishonest claims of lineage but he would change his story to explain the discrepancies without actually admitting to lying. I guess I would do that as well, but it doesn't make it right.
I have nothing to gain by LFL winning the case. I would have purchased his products if they were what he said they were, despite LFL not getting their fair share.
Bringing the other licensed creators into it and their crappy product that is touted as accurate but obviously isn't, doesn't really change my mind. I know the other companies claim it and their product is so obviously not accurate. I agree with people here that say they would line up first to get an accurate product. I would too. I don't buy their products. I don't have any licensed products because they haven't impressed me so far. I think the companies should be accountable for stating what changes they made to a product or at least saying it is a facsimile without 100% accuracy. They won't do that of course. Those companies didn't create anything for the film and they are doing business in the way that they choose to, and I don't buy the product.
As for AA's work, the product was supposed to be 100% star wars original stuff, and it isn't. That kinda sucks, and I didn't appreciate being told that it was something that it isn't. As a fan of items more accurate, I woudl have loved to see him offer what he claimed. Demanding rights to sell someone elses intellectual property is laughable. I would have taken the C&D when I had the chance.
My biggest issue with AA isn't that he was brazen enough to sell someone elses intellectual property openly, and even advertising internationally.
It doesn't matter what the courts decide because in my mind he has already pulled a fast one. He can skate by on any loophole or judgement and that doesn't erase what he has done up to this point.
From what I can tell he made molds of a prototype casting and fettled the tumblehome or some crap and tried to make it look like an original 1976 mold created the product when in fact it didn't. A 1976 oddball casting, altered to look closer to a trooper helmet did. This is obvious with the comparisons of his hemlets and the prototype that was sold at Christies. If I were to alter the prototype to look like a film helmet, i'd end up with exactly what SDS sells, with all of the inherent flaws of the prototype.
Then he got caught recasting a fan suit while saying it was also from original molds and then got caught in another lie. He later changed his story and said they weren't all from original molds.
I'm sure he has prototypes and random helmet leftovers to make molds from but not only did he deceive the prop community with dishonest claims of lineage but he would change his story to explain the discrepancies without actually admitting to lying. I guess I would do that as well, but it doesn't make it right.
I have nothing to gain by LFL winning the case. I would have purchased his products if they were what he said they were, despite LFL not getting their fair share.
Bringing the other licensed creators into it and their crappy product that is touted as accurate but obviously isn't, doesn't really change my mind. I know the other companies claim it and their product is so obviously not accurate. I agree with people here that say they would line up first to get an accurate product. I would too. I don't buy their products. I don't have any licensed products because they haven't impressed me so far. I think the companies should be accountable for stating what changes they made to a product or at least saying it is a facsimile without 100% accuracy. They won't do that of course. Those companies didn't create anything for the film and they are doing business in the way that they choose to, and I don't buy the product.
As for AA's work, the product was supposed to be 100% star wars original stuff, and it isn't. That kinda sucks, and I didn't appreciate being told that it was something that it isn't. As a fan of items more accurate, I woudl have loved to see him offer what he claimed. Demanding rights to sell someone elses intellectual property is laughable. I would have taken the C&D when I had the chance.
Bobtherocker
Well-Known Member
Here's something to think about that someone mentioned on another forum.
If AA wins the case is HE gonna come after the fanmade guys? If he's mad enough to take on LFL then maybe he's gonna go 'in for a penny, in for a pound'
Also, John Mollo, bless his cotton socks, says he had nothing to do with the helmet sculpt and couldnt remember who did.
If AA wins the case is HE gonna come after the fanmade guys? If he's mad enough to take on LFL then maybe he's gonna go 'in for a penny, in for a pound'
Also, John Mollo, bless his cotton socks, says he had nothing to do with the helmet sculpt and couldnt remember who did.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Yeah you can put that card away too :lol
Animetronic i guess you don't buy a lot of anything at all then because there's very few products props or not that are sold without spinning half truths to sell them.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
I suspect he may go after one or two in particular most likely at least the one that tried sticking it to him by going to LFL.
But then again if he wins this case he'll be a rich rich man and will probably of had his fill of court cases.
i thought it was 10million dollars?
im sure thats what sky news said.
getting up to speed on the story now thanks to this thread, i missed all the fun way back when i had "porn overload hard drive meltdown"
move along:confused
z
He should thank that individual if he wins.
Before that he had no clue there was even a market for armor or helmets.
UKscout
Well-Known Member
guys
One thing i've noticed is when AA started to provided ST helmets the stands that came with the earlyer helmets where the same as the MR helmet stands.
But after a while AA changed the helmet stand design? why???? was it presure from Lucas?????
anyone here know why, i've alway thought it was strange when MR had the same stand design as AA.
One thing i've noticed is when AA started to provided ST helmets the stands that came with the earlyer helmets where the same as the MR helmet stands.
But after a while AA changed the helmet stand design? why???? was it presure from Lucas?????
anyone here know why, i've alway thought it was strange when MR had the same stand design as AA.
Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
It was the MR helmet stand. He was called to the cuff for it, and the logo was clearly not his. That was a point he could not argue about as he had zero to do with the logo.
Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
But again there are other "fan-made" providers who have charged exorbitant fees for props - hell there was even one well known producer who wanted $500 a pop just for photos of original props :lol
Not saying AA's right but imo there are some almost cherished members of this hobby who have acted in similar or often worse ways.
Cheers
Jez
Last edited:
Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
Correct - I asked him, same with Brian Muir. I'm wondering whether both will be giving evidence.
The only names I've been able to come up with as a possibility is Nick Pemberton or Liz Moore. Liz unfortunately died a long while ago.
Jez
Lord Abaddon
Sr Member
giric thren
Well-Known Member
If AA wins then i have no doubt in my mind that that money hungry Ainsworth will not only got after the other armor dealer but the 501st as well. I am on Lucas' side he/Lucasfilm has been great to the fans, admit it. As the 501st goes, they are -as one troopper put it- a "walking, talking copyright infringment". Yet nothing has happened to them, Lucas has not gone after them with a rolled up newspaper telling us not to do that in his house. He loves what they do and has an unwritten agreement that if nobody openly advertise and sell armor for audacious prices *cough**cough**Ainsworth**cough*, then he lets us be. I see, and he has proven it, and IS proving it that Ainsworth has NO such honor. He is trying to get through a loophole to take credit for Mcquarrie's designand Lucas' idea. Lucasfilm while a big company is very fan related, and face it its not like Disney. Remember the daycare that had Disney characters on the walls painted by an amateur? Disney found out and FORCED them to paint over the walls, then THREATENED to sue them stating that their characters helped the daycare bring in business (children), and claimed damages for money lost (few thousand dollars). REMEBER IT COULD BE WORSE, and it will be if Ainsworth wins
Lord Abaddon
Sr Member
Apparently you haven't heard of all the issues LFL had with fan websites, several armor makers (including Armor FX who made a great amount of the 501st armor), etc. He's not going to sue individual fans nor the 501st since it isn't an entity per se and they are free advertising (much as Bryan stated this trail is for Ainsworth's legal team). Lucas is a "tolerant" person only when it will A) cost him too much money to make it worthwhile, ie suing every fan wearing illegal armor, and B) gives him free advertising while not mucking up his licensed contracts.
And while I can see Ainsworth going after certain possible individuals should he win, and asking for percentages from current license holders, I highly doubt he'll go after the 501st nor any members, especially since in the UK he is held in very high regard by most of their members and he has done so much for them in turn.
Quick observation.
LFLs stance is that the design and therefore Rights to the Stormtrooper originate with McQuarries, Mollo, and Johnstons concepts.
Ainsworth is saying that they are his design since he did the VacForming of plastic over forms - which to this date have not been proven as being sculpted by him anyway.
So....
IF AA were to win - will we see a lawsuit by AA claiming rights to the Alien design? It would make since since all Giger did was draw a couple pictures of it...
To me that points out just how STUPID AA's case really is.
-Gary
LFLs stance is that the design and therefore Rights to the Stormtrooper originate with McQuarries, Mollo, and Johnstons concepts.
Ainsworth is saying that they are his design since he did the VacForming of plastic over forms - which to this date have not been proven as being sculpted by him anyway.
So....
IF AA were to win - will we see a lawsuit by AA claiming rights to the Alien design? It would make since since all Giger did was draw a couple pictures of it...
To me that points out just how STUPID AA's case really is.
-Gary
Mic... I am generally with you, but that logic is simply baffling, especially since if Andrew wins this "individual" has stolen more money off of Andrew's property than every other maker combined.
