The end of JJTrek, finally?

Even if you despise ST 2009, it's really not fair to put that all on JJ. Paramount wanted JJ to do ST, even despite his initial reluctance, because of Paramount's mandate to change ST. Believe it or not, that decision wasn't simply about about pandering to the masses. It's actually more complicated than that.

(Sorry to folks who already know this part)
Prior to 2005 CBS and Paramount were a part of the conglomerate, Viacom. In December 2005 Viacom split where CBS Corporation became separate from Paramount which was now a part of "new" Viacom. While Paramount retained ownership of all the Star Trek films up to Nemesis, CBS Corporation retained rights for new films as well as the series. Paramount was able to strike a deal with CBS where an alternate copyright could be issued to Paramount to make films provided they were set in an alternate timeline - the stipulation from CBS was that they needed to be visually and tonally dissimilar from earlier Star Trek presumably so as not to create conflict and confusion should CBS decide to do something with the original timelines.

ST 2009 was thematically altered by grand design.

It's not about JJ going rogue with his misplaced interpretation of ST. The change in the look and feel of ST was by design and a decision made at a higher level than the director. If they hadn't hired JJ then it would have been someone else also instructed to make an action blockbuster-type series of movies. On the whole, given the constraints, ST 2009 turned out pretty good, IMO.
Source? I want to read more about that.

The new Trek movies are OK to watch, just very hard to reconcile with TOS even accounting for being an alternate history. I refuse to believe that Nu Kirk would be allowed to command a small patrol vessel, let alone a deep space vessel. That is until the last movie where he actually acts responsibly. I think the third has the best story. Except for a ship that somehow had a mountain form on top of it that is still able to fly after being repaired and destroying the bad guys ships by playing loud Beastie Boys. The second movie basically broke the universe with being able to teleport directly from Earth to Qo'noS. Who needs ships after that? And if the Klingons give you any lip just transport a few photon torpedoes into their capital. The whole franchise is falling victim to the same thing some TV shows do and that is the writer or writers come up with something "cool" and let the next group deal with the consequences. The same thing goes for costumes and make up. I can't wait to hear how Discovery deals with Klingons changing looks between seasons.
 
I'm currently watching TNG season 1 for the first time, loving it despite it's flaws.:cool:thumbsup

I love when it hits about the midpoint. "Justice" is the first episode where Picard asks advice from his senior staff and actually listens, rather than get hacked off and yell at them when they don't give him the answer he wanted. And even though the ethical quandry is remedial level, it was handled well, and felt like real Star Trek. By the last couple episodes of the season, we're hitting what I feel is TNG perfection.
 
[emoji38]. Nonsense! [emoji38]

Bab-5’s CGI is so dated it looks like it was made with a souped up etch a sketch!

All shows are reflective of the time they were Produced.

It is the nature of the beast
Not to sidetrack too much, but B5's CGI looks awful today largely because nobody ever bothered to preserve the underlying elements separate from the old low definition material. Theres literally no way to upscale it now. There isn't enough information in the frames, and because they mixed live action shots with CGI and only kept the final low definition composite, there's no way to separate the elements, upcode them and recombine them.

They looked awesome...for a 90s show with a fairly low budget.

The thing is, the core story, although presented in a very "90s" style, is still pretty amazing and -- in my opinion-- timeless. And it has some truly amazing performances that only really reveal themselves over time.

I haven't watched DS9 beyond some of the first season, so it may pick up, but other Trek shows' strength is in its individual interesting episodes and the ideas they explore. Larger narratives aren't really part of the show, but that's fine. Both franchises have good stories. They're just told differently.

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While it was state of the art for its time, the show always got dogged for its CGI while it was on but was given a pass .

As far as its budget goes you should have seen the “Sound stage” complex where it was shot, I could’nt believe it when I visited it, smack dab in the middle of no where in an Industrial park next to a recycling center

I am actually running the series again for the uptenth time

Dan you really need to watch all of DS-9 as it became more serialised in later seasons

During the years both shows were on I fought a hard battle to get Trek fans to give B-5 a try.

Those who did were rewarded with a well written Classic Series



Not to sidetrack too much, but B5's CGI looks awful today largely because nobody ever bothered to preserve the underlying elements separate from the old low definition material. Theres literally no way to upscale it now. There isn't enough information in the frames, and because they mixed live action shots with CGI and only kept the final low definition composite, there's no way to separate the elements, upcode them and recombine them.

They looked awesome...for a 90s show with a fairly low budget.

The thing is, the core story, although presented in a very "90s" style, is still pretty amazing and -- in my opinion-- timeless. And it has some truly amazing performances that only really reveal themselves over time.

I haven't watched DS9 beyond some of the first season, so it may pick up, but other Trek shows' strength is in its individual interesting episodes and the ideas they explore. Larger narratives aren't really part of the show, but that's fine. Both franchises have good stories. They're just told differently.

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I once read an article that said you can watch any movie or tv show and be able to date it within 10 years of it being made just by the fashions, even if it is a period piece, and the actions of the cast. Look at how they dressed in TOS, without knowing it was made in the mid 1960's it is very easy to place it in that time frame just on clothes and hair styles alone and don't get me started with the hippies in space episode.
 
Trek was all about the franchise, Babylon 5 was all about interesting characters with depth. Compared to B5, Trek had no creativity.
 
I find it mildly ironic that the people vociferously defending JJ trek are some of the same ones who get offended by people who don't utterly despise the new Star Wars films...
 
I find it mildly ironic that the people vociferously defending JJ trek are some of the same ones who get offended by people who don't utterly despise the new Star Wars films...

Most of the "haters" loath TLJ. Myself included. JJ Trek to me is a fresh reboot. Great characters all around. I tried to watch TMP last night... I could only stomach 1/2 hour in before loosing interested.
 
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Blasphemer!!”

...i tried to watch tmp last night... I could only stomach 1/2 hour in before loosing interest.
 
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TMP just needed an actual villian, Our heroes would be on their noble mission to discover and understand what V'ger was after and defuse the situation, perhaps a Klingon commander bent on revenge and destruction of V'ger, some history with Kirk, is their obstacle to overcome, and there you have conflict for drama and a battle or two. So you get a TMP/WOK sort of mashup. Oh well. Love it for what it was.
 
I find it mildly ironic that the people vociferously defending JJ trek are some of the same ones who get offended by people who don't utterly despise the new Star Wars films...

I thought the ones who love JJ Trek were the same ones who loved TLJ. I figured if you could ignore the source material and accept the "new canon" of one series, you'd do the same for all. Guess I should pay closer attention.

Personally, I have found the JJ Trek movies to be mildly entertaining enough to record them on HBO and eventually watch them.
 
Most of the "haters" loath TLJ. Myself included. JJ Trek to me is a fresh reboot. Great characters all around. I tried to watch TMP last night... I could only stomach 1/2 hour in before loosing interested.

You should have watched Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan instead.
 
Trek was all about the franchise, Babylon 5 was all about interesting characters with depth. Compared to B5, Trek had no creativity.

Mostly true. That's why pretty much all new Trek sucks.

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I find it mildly ironic that the people vociferously defending JJ trek are some of the same ones who get offended by people who don't utterly despise the new Star Wars films...

Not I. I hate them all. As far as I'm concerned, Star Wars ended in 1983 and Star Trek, at least televised Star Trek, ended in 1969. It's all bad fanfic since.
 
Not I. I hate them all. As far as I'm concerned, Star Wars ended in 1983 and Star Trek, at least televised Star Trek, ended in 1969. It's all bad fanfic since.

The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock felt like series arcs of the TV show, with bigger budgets and production value.

Those are the only movies with TOS cast that I enjoyed. I grew up with TNG and DS9, and a bit of Voyager (which I couldn't get into), so the TNG cast movies were alright, but nothing stellar.

Calling the rest of it bad fan fiction is a bit disingenuous, because some good stuff has come out in each series since their original runs ended.
 
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