Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel Holotags

zapwizard

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Howdy folks,

So my sister, and her two kids are really into Cosplay, including Fallout. She is looking to start building her own props and has asked me to help her design some Brotherhood of Steel holotags. Both for her use, and to eventually sell. This thread is to help me perfect the design based on fan input, before working on anything else. This is not an interest thread, that would come later.

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In Fallout 4 these are only ever seen as the above prop. In-game they are single sided. However, since they are supposed to be electronic "dog tags" then they should be double sided in real-life, with the prop showing one of each sides to save on rendering.

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Trying to decipher the text on them has been very tough. The above images are as high res as the textures get on these props. But since they are dog tags, we can assume there is some personal information printed on them. Using photoshop to enlarge and sharpen the images, this is the best I can come up with. Although I am not sure about the top two lines, and the word "Discovery"

N.O. Identification:
(Serial number)

Blood Type - O

Discovery
Level
1
2
3

Clearance
Confirm
Y
Y
N

Name: Jeb Dutchnill Joe Baker
Signature:

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Jdlnt14.png


The 2nd side is impossible to make out the top text. I am assuming name, company and number.

For the barcodes, you can put 8 numbers into the top code, and four numbers into each of the bottom codes and keep the same look.

The bottom text seems to be:
You think you can take me? You go ahead and try.

If anyone has any better reference for these please post it. I know the fans here are more versed in the Fallout lore than I am.

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Click for a 4K render

(Note the above image is a 3D render. Nothing is real yet.)

Okay, here is the design I have come up with.

They will be made from real steel of course. The design calls for two press formed metal parts. They will sandwich an internal assembly with a LED and battery. Then wrapped in a silicone rubber skin. A ball chain connector at the top would allow for either end-to-end, or mid-chain connection.

The LED would light up a etching of the user's fingerprint, visible from both sides. This etching would be backed by a glow-in-the-dark surface. The dog tag could be made with generic game style text, or customized as unique one-offs. Danse would probably be used for the generic version.

The holotags are 75x47mm in size, and 6.5mm thick.

I also designed a Brotherhood of Steel Liberty Prime mission challenge coin. The challenge coin is 1.75" in diameter. It's the Fallout 3 version of LIberty Prime, because it just is more iconic than what we see in Fallout 4.

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We are working on ways to produce the metal and silicone parts.
Does anyone have experience with forming thin metal parts, or pouring thin silicone molds?

What do you folks think of the design?
Would you change anything?

For example, I am thinking about flipping the text at the top of the Liberty Prime coin. Another option it to make them glow-in-the-dark only with no electronics.

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Jdlnt14.png


42881373662_c044a10808_b.jpg
 
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I'd look to stamp them out of thin stainless sheet.
 
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How much space are you likely to have between the layers to fit electronic guts? If you could fit two teeny LEDs or even EL, I'd suggest the blue one for general illumination, and a UV one to fluoresce the fingerprint etching in the glow paint.

I don't know how difficult custom ones would be, but as my auto-insertion Fallout persona is a BoS Scribe, I'd practically saw off limbs for my own personalized tags.

One possibility for the outer markings... Laser-etching? Real world dog tags are stamped, in part so the ID data are hard to erase. If the info is just printed on, there's too much chance of it getting worn off due to normal wear-and-tear, never mind battlefield conditions. :p

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ETA: Also, I haven't been able to run down no source for the quote on the back. It might be from an old message board, same as the YCS/186's name, from New Vegas. Run down those names on the front?
 
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@Mach: I don't think that style of forming wouldn't be strong enough to form the three small rivet features. (Real hydroforming would work however)

I did find that Masonite board is strong enough to be used as a die and buck in limited runs. I am now researching how much pressure and what thickness of steel would be needed. The nice part is that you can get steel skim stock in almost any thickness, and most shim stock is soft enough to form. I am using steel despite it being harder than aluminum, as it forms much better than aluminum. Aluminum tends to rip and tear when press formed, where steel is more malleable.

What is actually trickier is punching out the window. This can be done with a hardened steel press, but is expensive. Or I can have the blanks pre-cut with the window, which makes alignment during pressing more critical.

But I am also looking at other more DIY friendly options to get the same look. Such as press-forming very thin aluminum onto a 3D printed, or vacuformed internal structure. The aluminum would provide a real metal surface on the top. (I have never been satisfied with the look of faux metal)

The tough part is most tutorials are geared towards large parts for vehicles, and not small parts like this.
@inquisitor Peregrinus. I have ~6mm of space inside, just enough to fit the electronics. The plan is to use a Cyan or UV LED in combination with the florescent paint. A normal Blue LED won't be the correct shade of blue for this to look correct. Some prototyping will reveal the best combination. A LED may not even be needed if the glow-in-the-dark paint is high quality enough to glow for hours.

The tricky part is to keep costs down, I won't have a PCB. It will work more like a low-cost keychain flashlight, where you squeeze the body to turn the light on. You could optionally open it up and bend a wire to make it run non-stop until the battery ran out. Good enough to cosplay for a day or two.

EL is out, it requires too much circuitry to operate.

The outer markings would be laser-etched when done with custom text. The markings would be permanent. If I did a large generic run, it would probably be done with silkscreen.

There are some classes of stainless which may work, but I think a more matte grey finish would look closer to the in-game prop. So I plan on using low-carbon steel. It is also more magnetic than stainless, and the back panel will probably be held with a magnet if the rubber isn't strong enough alone.

The in-game model was obviously made to look like the part was painted, and the paint is peeling. But I plan on using bare steel, which you can then rust and age as you want. If you want you could always spray paint it and then age the surface to get something closer to the in-game look.
 
I'd be interested in trying to cast it in aluminum from a 3d print. I've got the casting filament but haven't tried it yet. How many would you make?
 
It can't be cast since there are electronics inside. If it were done with just glow-in-the dark, it could maybe be cast, but the window opening would need to be CNC'ed afterwards. I don't know what size run we will do. It depends on how we end up making the metal and rubber parts. My sister wants to make these herself if possible, I am leaning towards getting the parts manufactured, and we do the assembly/customization.
 
Those would be very cool! I didn't even think to pull the models for these when I got the weapon models. I'm still not sure what function the glowing part serves though.
 
This looks sweet as hell!

Two things I'm wondering, good sir...…

You say you plan to make them double sided? Why is this? Don't soldier's typically have two tags (I seriously have no idea)? It seems like they were meant to be one sided, at least to me. I mean, they made a texture for the other side of the bottlecaps. Seems like they could've easily made these double sided if they meant to. What's your thoughts on making them like you have them shown in the render (which by the way, that is one sexy ass render dude)?

Second, I'm not exactly seeing why the blue light would be a fingerprint. For the most part, it just looks like a blue light. I see the weird texture they have on there, which you can only catch at an angle very close up anyways, and it just doesn't strike me as a fingerprint. What are you thoughts? I tell ya, smooth cast 325 and some blue ignite pigments with UV light might be spot on for the lens. Not sure if the lens would be a casted part, though.

Also, yeah, I would have to say I'd question the word 'Discovery' being there too. But sure as hell, it's very hard to make out (or guess) what it says there.

Just the same, this looks sweet. Might have to get in on this if you guys do a run. :thumbsup
 
In the military, Dog tags are meant to come in identical pairs. They have the same information on both tags. The idea is that a body on the battlefield can be identified by the tag. And the 2nd tag can be taken by personnel as a way to make a record/proof of who died.

I did make a single sided design first, it really looks just the same but with two unique etchings, and the rubber wraps around fully. They also would be thinner of course.

The blue light has some wavy lines in the game texture. I took that to either represent a electronic display, or a fingerprint. Since they were I.D. tags I figured a fingerprint. It would be easier to just leave it blank, no etching to do.

The plan is to make the plastic window out of cast acrylic. This is higher quality than extruded, and so any etching would come out better also. It also has a more glass-like shine to it. If it were to be made without the etching, than a resin casting, or a cheaper extruded acrylic could be used. Note the acrylic is also used for internal support of the metal and electronics.

We have started looking into various ways to produce these, with the goal of making these ourselves and not just ordering parts from China.

That rubber forming process may work if I select a very thin steel material. I have found that you can 3D print a mold using ULTEM material to make a mold, and at this size it wouldn't be too expensive. And a 20-ton press from Harbor Freight is pretty cheap.

Another idea I had, but I haven't seen anyone do is to make the form with thin aluminum foil, and then back-fill that form with resin for strength. This would allow for a solid part, but with a real metal finish to laser-etch and age. Cost casting is an option, but it still never feels like real metal no matter how good it looks, and the text would have to be printed instead of etched.

For the rubber surround, I have looked into using latex or some other dip-forming process. This is used all the time for tool grips and rubber caps. The hard part is actually getting a matte finish. The tip that I found for this was adding powdered sugar to the last layer. Then you wait for it to cure and dissolve the sugar to reveal the matte finish.

Plasti-dip seemed like the first choice, but it is expensive compared to other dip plastics, and apparently doesn't hold up well like a silicone phone wrap would. In either case the rubber surround would need to be a millimeter or less thick to look correct.

Doing it without any electronics is sounding better and better. Just because it will make them static objects with no need to remove the wrap to get to a battery.
 
The rubber looks like a regular dog tag silencer but upside down. I'd forgo the in game design and attach them like normal tags. Otherwise pour tinted silicone around a laser cut acrylic template.
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I'm going to try casting them in pewter for giggles. If you're locked into rubber forming then press the main body then enhance the rivets with a doming block from harbor freight. The shape isn't that complex, you could hand work it out of carbon steel and it would last longer than ultem.

Security instead of Discovery?
 
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This is so outstandingly cool! Never been a big fan of the BoS, but that being said I would definitely get in on this once they're ready to be sold: I'd have to assume these would be the same kind of tags used by the U.S. military pre-war and the BoS re-purposed the machinery to manufacture new tags for their soldiers. Wish I could say I had more insight into how to help making these, but I'm pretty stumped as well :/
LOVE the fingerprint idea, by the way!
 
Mach, I agree the surround is supposed to look like a dog tag silencer, But the size shape isn't quite the same, so I can't use an off-the-shelf silencer. I sized the holotag according to the ball chain size in the prop. The most common ball chain size is Trade Size 3, or 2.4mm.

I think you are completely right on that saying "Security". I swear I have asked at least eight people (Without prompting them with the word Discovery). But security makes so much more sense. I'll update the artwork.

Jakeinator123, I am not a fan of the BOS quests either. (But Liberty Prime was awesome!)
 
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Yeah would definitely update it to security as well, and I am so in whenever you decide to make a run of these!!! Sweet!

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Yeah would definitely update it to security as well, and I am so in whenever you decide to make a run of these!!! Sweet!

Also I'd add, that the blue light to me, represent the life sign of the soldier. I'd imagine one of these heartbeat lines that you see from hospital monitors but onto the tags?
 
Also I'd add, that the blue light to me, represent the life sign of the soldier. I'd imagine one of these heartbeat lines that you see from hospital monitors but onto the tags?

So they're all flatlines, since you're taking them off dead people? ;)

I had a follow-on thought as to the fingerprint. Probably shouldn't-- at least, not a real one. There are cameras good enough now that people are taking images of people's fingerprints and using them for illicit purposes. Good enough to ping on AFIS, good enough to fool biometric locks.

And given how the variegation in the blue looks, contrasted against the detail of the lettering, barcodes, and weathering, I don't know that it's supposed to be a fingerprint. Still trying to brainstorm what that could be, though.
 
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In my opinion, I don't think the blue light is meant to be anything other than a blue light. To make them look futuristic or something. Maybe the lines are the texture of the light's lens? If I had to guess, I'd say they were trying to mimic the fuzz sorta look to the blue part on the Fallout 3 holotags. They too have some weird texture there, which also doesn't appear to be "something". And like I mentioned earlier, you can't see the weird texture unless you're looking at them up close, and at an angle. The game devs probably worried more about how they looked from a distance, rather than up real close.

Just my 2 cents...…...
 
EmmaInCandyland, that is an interesting idea. Although duplicating that requires a PCB and other electronics. Too bad they don't make the super-efficient LM3909 LED blinker chip. (Old school RadioShack nerds will get that reference)
GhostMinion: I am sure it was added to make them futuristic. It would certainly be easier to make them without the etching. Laser cutting is fast, while laser etching is as slow as an old school dot matrix printer.

Perhaps the blue glow was just some way of finding the holotags in the dark after a battle. Sort of the same idea as a glow-stick used in an emergency situation to mark a path.

Another idea I had was that they could act like radioactivity monitor badges (Dosimeter). This would of course make sense in a nuclear war. You would want to know if a body in the battle was "hot" or not.
 
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My 2 caps...

cut the metal part out of aluminum. 1/8th inch or 3/16. Use a file to make the sloping edges.
Cut a hole where the glowing blue light is. Use clear resin with glow in the dark blue powder. It will look EDIT reg blue in the light, but glow when any shade
Cast the edges with silicone.
Get the slashes by making transparent stickers.
 
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EmmaInCandyland, Oh, you meant like a graph of the hearbeat, like a Electrocardiagram. The line you see in the image you sent, it just the spectacular map interacting with the original texture. The original texture is just a bunch of noise. In either case, that would imply the glow is from an active screen type display.
JPH. That is a lot of filing. It would be near impossible to get the angles correct and even by hand. It could be CNCed from a solid block of metal, but the small curves in the edges that give it the "pressed metal" look are actually very difficult to CNC. They come free when pressing metal.

I will do tests with both glow-in-the-dark resin, and back-painted acrylic. Typically the resin will glow brighter than any paint, as the powder becomes suspended and has more surface area to emit light.
 
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