Star Wars stand alone films on hold...

I don't care one bit for the fans harassing actors or employees. However when they say that anyone who didn't like TLJ was racist or misogynist, then that's an insult. I guess it makes them feel better about an inferior movie, I don't know.

Sluis Van Shipyards said:

I don't care one bit for the fans harassing actors or employees. However when they say that anyone who didn't like TLJ was racist or misogynist, then that's an insult. I guess it makes them feel better about an inferior movie, I don't know.

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Whoever says that is an ignorant moron who doesn't listen to the criticisms. They focus on those who complain about the female casting and that's it.

I don't even think SW fans overall have any problem with female characters. There's a small vocal group doing all the harassment online. I say that because everyone likes Leia, Padme, and one of, if not THE, most popular EU characters was Mara Jade. I like the way Rey started out in TFA. I think the "normal" (maybe rational?) fans had a problem with Rey because they gave her instant Force powers and made her look more powerful than Luke. It would have been like ROTS bringing some new character in, that for no reason, was more powerful than Yoda. So I think it's more writing that most people had a problem with vs. a female hero.

Sluis Van Shipyards said:

I don't care one bit for the fans harassing actors or employees. However when they say that anyone who didn't like TLJ was racist or misogynist, then that's an insult. I guess it makes them feel better about an inferior movie, I don't know.

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I'm curious as to where this notion comes from that Disney/LFL has come out and said that everyone who disliked TLJ is a racist/sexist/whatever.

What I've seen is the following:

1. They've not responded to the legitimate criticism of some fans or some of the general complaints.

2. They have responded to some of the most vitriolic, toxic behavior and called it out.

And that's about all I've seen. I think there's been this assumption that, because that's the only criticism that Disney has responded to, that they are lumping all the dissatisfied fans together.

To my view, it looks more like two distinct responses (or lack of response). I can see where it would be frustrating to get no response to your criticisms if you think they're valid. But the fact that the worst behavior gets a response doesn't mean that's (a) all that Disney/LFL acknowledges, not that (b) they think all critics are racists or sexists or trolls.

When someone calls out the trolls, that's not them calling out all critics. Yet that's the narrative that's formed around this. To my way of thinking, if you know you aren't a troll, then they aren't talking to you or about you. That may be its own source of frustration, but it doesn't mean they're calling every critic a troll.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Disney and LucasFilm are smart enough not to label anyone and there really is no need for them to do so when they have an endless supply of employees and affiliated media outlets at their disposal to do the dirty work for them. Just take a look at the twitter posts from, Rian Johnson, Chuck Wendig, Jon Kasdan and Freddy Prince Jnr and media outlets such as MovieWeb or Forbes etc to see the harse reality of it all.

Evan JJ Abrams threw his hat in the ring with this little piece....

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/02/jj-abrams-star-wars-last-jedi-women-1201929593/

The old if your not a troll then it obviously doesnt reflect on you line holds as much weight as the standard line used against those who have concerns about privacy invasion and breaches of civil liberty... "If you`ve got nothing to hide then you should`nt be worried" brush off.

Never mind .

Like it or not, we're moving into an era where it is no longer feasible to just ignore the trolls. I rather appreciate seeing a giant corporation take even the tiniest of stances against people who act ****ty.
For those that are somehow offended because they share an opinion about a movie with said trolls, and not necessarily even for the same reasons, I can only be thoroughly confused.

The acts of a few ***** people should always be called out but when you take a wide brush to all who have issues rather than address those issues directly is frankly detestable.

I don't think that brush is as wide as you think it is.

I see mention of 'troll' groups in that piece, but not anything referencing normies for whom the film just didn't work.

Paul Andrew said:

Like it or not, we're moving into an era where it is no longer feasible to just ignore the trolls. I rather appreciate seeing a giant corporation take even the tiniest of stances against people who act ****ty.
For those that are somehow offended because they share an opinion about a movie with said trolls, and not necessarily even for the same reasons, I can only be thoroughly confused.

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Maybe it’s because there’re some people on here that feel justified in hurling such accusations towards fellow members of being akin to said trolls .:facepalm
Just because we have differing legitimate views & opinions on certain films and those primarily responsible for making them .
Why should that be acceptable ?

Doe’s that qualify enough to feel offended ?

:cheersGed

If you dont think that the brush used is a mile long than I have zero interest in trying to convince you otherwise.

gedmac66 said:

Maybe it’s because there’re some people on here that feel justified in hurling such accusations towards fellow members of being akin to said trolls .

Doe’s that qualify enough to feel offended ?

:cheersGed

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But here is the problem...

So, someone says they love Rey! "She's such a strong character!"

I say, no, she isn't. "She is ridiculously too competent in things she's never done before. Probes Kylo, the scene after he knocked her out with the wave of her EDIT : His hand. Out force pulls him, etc..."

They say, Yeah! She's so strong!

I say, nope, she's weak. She's a terrible get-out-of-anything free card. She allows the writer to be lazy.

They get upset. Especially if they stop and *think* about it.

****another example***

The bombers. People say, "I love that scene."

I knew the bombers were going to blow up before they blew up...once they armed the bombs INSIDE the bombers. THEN a seasoned bomber squad makes themselves one BIG TARGET. I knew the outcome before it happened. It was stupid. The movie even shows that it was stupid. They blew themselves up.

People who *loved* that scene get upset when I point out the obvious.

I could go on, but you can see how TLJ can be dissected into a series of poorly thought out plot twisty crap that isn't designed to entertain, it is designed to see if you are paying attention.

I didn't mind Rey being a little tough nut-in The Force Awakens,I mean if she made Luke raise an eyebrow when they met and he noted she is "different" and then proceed to kick her butt from one side of the island to the other THAT would have been better,yea she's good,yea she's strong BUT she's got a ways to go when it comes to an old hand like Luke.

Of course Luke would have to be the same person we remember...not that ticked off old coot they made him.

gedmac66 said:

Maybe it’s because there’re some people on here that feel justified in hurling such accusations towards fellow members of being akin to said trolls .:facepalm
Just because we have differing legitimate views & opinions on certain films and those primarily responsible for making them .
Why should that be acceptable ?

Doe’s that qualify enough to feel offended ?

:cheersGed

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That's a pretty vague 'some people on here', but in the event that I've posted something that made someone feel like I've lumped them in with the trolls then I sincerely apologize. I try (though not always succeed) to call out that stuff on its own, rather than attaching it to a particular person if I can avoid it (ie - that sounded messed up vs you're messed up for saying that).

For instance, I don't believe there's a legitimate complaint regarding Rey's supposed Mary Sue status, and the concept in and of itself leans hard toward sexism, regardless of whether the person voicing the complaint intended it. One of the biggest lessons I've learned lately is that your intention counts for a lot less than what was comprehended. This is tricky, because people (myself included) have a tendency to hear what they expect to hear and that makes it really easy to stick your fingers in your ears when you say something that someone took offense to and pretend you're not wrong. That being said, any number of folks will latch onto the Mary Sue argument without any thought for how it comes across, particularly toward about half the world's population.

I still believe most of us are here because at our core we love Star Wars. I'm not a huge fan of the PT but even it has redeeming qualities (Williams's scores not the least among them), but we're hitting a point where the "George Lucas raped my childhood" guys are loud and getting a lot of press, vastly more than they were in the PT days. When I read the interviews or comments in reference to those guys (and how abhorrently they're treating female cast members in particular) I don't see any undertone of "screw everyone who didn't like the movie." All I've ever seen is squarely directed at the trolls, and frankly they've earned it.

Now, I'm not here to convince anyone they should like TLJ, but I won't let it slide without comment when someone goes on a "that movie was dumb and bad and no one with a brain could possibly like it" tirade. It's a movie. It's subjective. That is just how it is. Ishtar probably even has fans out there, somewhere. Some people are going to like it, whether or not you agree with them or understand what they like about it. The anti TLJ posts have often been just as condescending as any post that might have implied someone was being bigoted when they said Rey was a Mary Sue, regardless of whether they meant to be.

Frankly, most of us could stand to make a civility pass on our posts before spamming the reply button. We're not all always going to agree, but we don't need to be ****ty to each other about it when we don't. Sometimes a step back and a breather is in order for a little perspective. It's often worked for me.

Hey @Paul Andrew , I agree with most of your points , and totally agree that , some posts here are poorly executed ( I’m probably guilty of that too ) , and perhaps extreme .

And just to clarify , that statement made in my previous post re; ‘ some people ‘ , wasn’t directed at you .
It was my intention however to make your specific point about being confused by people here becoming ‘ upset ‘ !? ... that I wished to address .
If you haven’t already , I refer you to The Post TLJ thread , pg 210 - post #5250 .
Judge for yourself if what was expressed there ( thinly veiled accusations ) about myself and ‘ some others on here ‘ - if my taking exception to certain remarks made there were valid .


:cheersGed

So, one side says, TLJ was great.

The other says, "it stank."

The lovers of TLJ say, "let's talk about it."

and if you mention Finn, you get called a racist, Rey - a sexist, Rose racist AND sexist.

And the circle goes round and round. Here we go again.

It is an intellectually lazy way to manipulate. No thought required. Any legitimate concern is treated like toxic hatred. It completely avoids the dialog that was initially requested. It is passive-agressive defense mechanism. They don't need to listen, they don't want to listen. They feel superior by thinking the are exposing something evil that was never there.

And then ask for civility.

The catch being, THEY want people to spend money to maintain a franchise.

The irony being that it really reveals the racism and sexism of low expectations on their side. Really, you don't think a woman should work hard to be competent in something? So, the group of asian yelling at me like I'm the American ambassador for Star Wars, about how Rose is an insult to Asian women, suffer from from Stockholm Syndrome?

We don' have to prove what we aren't.

We cannot have a rational discussion when the other side is just looking for knee-jerk triggers. The supporters and Rian J have done more damage than the crappy movie.

and we take our money elsewhere.

@JPH,

I'm curious as to the context of that line about the "group of asians" yelling at you. Can you share some details?

Lots of palpable anger and frustration here. Most of it pretty well stated and well-supported.

The difficult question, though, is: when will the chances to get it right be used up? Is everyone still going to go see Episode 9 when it comes out? I think of bands and musicians that I used to love, who began making a different kind of music that I didn’t enjoy. In that case, I liked each successive album less and less, until eventually I stopped paying attention altogether. I still enjoy the old albums as I always did, but some of the intensity of my interest definitely cooled. Does anyone foresee that happening with their love of Star Wars? I imagine it’s a difficult question to answer.

therethere said:

@JPH,

I'm curious as to the context of that line about the "group of asians" yelling at you. Can you share some details?

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Taiwanese and Chinese families that have been getting together for years for hot pots and Chinese New Year and Thanksgiving. Two girls couldnt wait to talk about Rose. I remained silent. Some people had seen the movie, we actually pulled up clips online and that's when the tofu hit the rotary oscillator... lotsa "bu how" s and "mei yoh" s being thrown about. I thought people got upset during the last election... I was asked why I had EDIT (removed the word "not") been silent, as if I could call Rian and tell him to give Rose some more pride and self-esteem and taste. Rose was concluded to be "faceless" another way of saying, " shameless."

Jagjaguwar said:

Lots of palpable anger and frustration here. Most of it pretty well stated and well-supported.

The difficult question, though, is: when will the chances to get it right be used up? Is everyone still going to go see Episode 9 when it comes out? I think of bands and musicians that I used to love, who began making a different kind of music that I didn’t enjoy. In that case, I liked each successive album less and less, until eventually I stopped paying attention altogether. I still enjoy the old albums as I always did, but some of the intensity of my interest definitely cooled. Does anyone foresee that happening with their love of Star Wars? I imagine it’s a difficult question to answer.

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It already has for me. I still love all the old stuff that I originally liked, but I'm done with the Disney stuff.