Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:

I agree Rian did a poor job at showing what was going on. But he was definitely trying to allude to the climax of ROTJ, focusing on Luke's saber and cybernetic hand.

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Um, Johnson himself admitted that he meant to address but totally forgot about Luke`s metal hand at the end of the movie. Its in TLJ post release thread if you want to find it. The guy was obviously way over his head from the get go and Kennedy giving him free reign to do his own thing unsupervised showed she isnt much better off. I`m sure they will make a great team on his next indie film.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

mattycsi said:

Disagreeing. And wondering if you've seen the film.

Vader has the rebels hostage. Han gets sent off to Jabba and the others are bait for Luke. Luke doesn't show, is Vader just going to turn them loose? No. Likely kill'em all. Luke's arrival is enough to distract Vader for Lando's escape plane to work.

Either way, its as I stated, someone was going to Tattooine to rescue Han. Luke showing or not has no bearing on that.

If its "all as the force wills it", then what was seen is what was willed, because it happened. They didn't have to go only because of Luke's messing up, they were already humped before Luke got there.

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Then you are removing the Force from the equation. What we saw in the film was 1 of 1,000 things that could have happened. Leia could have discovered the Force. Someone else could have been brought up by the Force to save them.

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Mr Webber said:

Um, Johnson himself admitted that he meant to address but totally forgot about Luke`s metal hand at the end of the movie. Its in TLJ post release thread if you want to find it. The guy was obviously way over his head from the get go and Kennedy giving him free reign to do his own thing unsupervised showed she isnt much better off. I`m sure they will make a great team on his next indie film.

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Forgot? I remember seeing his cybernetic hand multiple times during the movie.

Oh yeah he was so in over his head. He's said that he had never made a film of that size and scale, with that kind of budget before.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:

Then you are removing the Force from the equation. What we saw in the film was 1 of 1,000 things that could have happened. Leia could have discovered the Force. Someone else could have been brought up by the Force to save them.

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That's obviously only my opinion and everyone's free to interpret the movies the way they want...I remember the Wook had a long argument with someone over what prompted Vader's "the Force is strong with this one" comment at the end of ANH, the way Luke was piloting or the fact that Ben started making contact with him...so yea, loads of stuff are up for interpretation.
That being said "the will of the Force" always sounded like a cheap cop-out to me.

Joek3rr said:

Forgot? I remember seeing his cybernetic hand multiple times during the movie.

Oh yeah he was so in over his head. He's said that he had never made a film of that size and scale, with that kind of budget before.

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He meant the end of TLJ when Luke dies, disappears and seemingly takes his fake hand with himself.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

sztriki said:

That's obviously only my opinion and everyone's free to interpret the movies the way they want...I remember the Wook had a long argument with someone over what prompted Vader's "the Force is strong with this one" comment at the end of ANH, the way Luke was piloting or the fact that Ben started making contact with him...so yea, loads of stuff are up for interpretation.
That being said "the will of the Force" always sounded like a cheap cop-out to me.



He meant the end of TLJ when Luke dies, disappears and seemingly takes his fake hand with himself.

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Not necessarily. George was trying have something take the place of a deity. Without having an actual deity. So the Force controls the entirety of the galaxy, yet there is still free will. Think of the Force like a coin, on side is the Force controlling everything, and the other side is people have free will and decide their own destiny.

Oh that's scene. I'm glad he forgot. That would have been weird to see a cybernetic hand suddenly roll down the rock.........

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:

Not necessarily. George was trying have something take the place of a deity. Without having an actual deity. So the Force controls the entirety of the galaxy, yet there is still free will.

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Wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:

Not necessarily. George was trying have something take the place of a deity. Without having an actual deity. So the Force controls the entirety of the galaxy, yet there is still free will. Think of the Force like a coin, on side is the Force controlling everything, and the other side is people have free will and decide their own destiny.

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Since we're thankfully not allowed to discuss religions on this forum I think this is where the discussion stops, but to me "free will" and "the Force works in mysterious ways but everything is as the Force wills it" is mutually exclusive. And a great way to explain illogical script events. :lol
Again, everyone is free to interpret stories the way they want. Was just adding my 2 cents.

Joek3rr said:

Oh that's scene. I'm glad he forgot. That would have been weird to see a cybernetic hand suddenly roll down the rock.........

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Or it could have just stayed on the rock while the robe was taken by the wind as a memento or grave marker...see, this is what I don't get, when certain people dislike how something happened or didn't happen it's very easy to bring a really extreme possibility as a counter-example, but a sensible version is usually there that could have been genuine improvement.
Example:
- Leia Poppins scene was awful.
- Oh so people now hate the idea of Leia using the Force and think it's dumb.
- No, flying around in space is dumb. Leia could have used the Force to mind-trick someone from FO boarding the ship, flick an important switch via telekinesis or telepathically contact his son.

For the record the mechanical hand in the end does not make or break anything in that movie for me...

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Axlotl said:

Wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

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He drew upon a lot of stuff. That's why he wanted the Jedi to look like a combination of a western European monk and samurai. But he definitely created an all-powerful entity for his universe.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

If their robes stay behind when they disappear to the Force, why aren't they naked when they appear as Force ghosts? Is there an internal Force clothing store?

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

sztriki said:

Or it could have just stayed on the rock while the robe was taken by the wind as a memento or grave marker...see, this is what I don't get, when certain people dislike how something happened or didn't happen it's very easy to bring a really extreme possibility as a counter-example, but a sensible version is usually there that could have been genuine improvement.
Example:
- Leia Poppins scene was awful.
- Oh so people now hate the idea of Leia using the Force and think it's dumb.
- No, flying around in space is dumb. Leia could have used the Force to mind-trick someone from FO boarding the ship, flick an important switch via telekinesis or telepathically contact his son.

For the record the mechanical hand in the end does not make or break anything in that movie for me...

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I love that scene I thought it was a cool use of the Force. I'm not sure why people don't like it. It's just a variation of "Force pull".

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Laspector said:

If their robes stay behind when they disappear to the Force, why aren't they naked when they appear as Force ghosts? Is there an internal Force clothing store?

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To keep it PG! :lol

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

How about something remotely plausible, though?

Ship is hit, bridge blown to crap - Leia's not blown into space, but trapped in a section of the ship about to break off where she'd die in space. The crew can't get the door open because a beams in the way or something and she uses the force to move it out of the way for them to free her. They open the door, she walks out, they're stunned, she makes a quip like 'I studied...a little' and heads off.

If you're borderline unconscious, in space, without a suit, you'd not be capable of keeping yourself alive AND force grabbing yourself back to the ship - especially when you'd have to propel yourself to an actual airlock that wasn't damaged to avoid decompressing the ship.

So, cool thought, just not as good execution.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

One of the reasons flying Leia looks strange is that we have no frame of reference of what cloth looks like being pulled through space without wind resistance. It's going to look strange even if it was perfectly accurate.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Greenie said:

No, no, no.
You're making excuses based on how these characters have been re-written. Nothing from episode VII &VIII aligns with the events of episode VI.

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I hang this one on JJ as much as KK. Several of us have discussed his beloved "Mystery Box" over the last few years, and this is one result. The transitional period is at least vaguely mapped out internal to Lucasfilm. But since we're not privy to that, it's incumbent on the filmmakers to show us what's essential to understand what's going on and tweak the non-essential to suit run-time, pacing, character development, etc. What @Joek3rr referenced is part of the canon -- inasmuch as it's been shown so far. For twenty-five years after Return of the Jedi, Luke was being a galaxy-saving Jedi Knight hero and training a new generation of Jedi; Han and Leia were together and in love, even if their respective lives often kept them apart; the Empire had surrendered early on and the First Order was still gathering itself and waiting to go public.

It was only in the last 3-4 years prior to TFA that everything went to hell again. Ben went Dark Side, Luke blamed himself and went Walkabout, Han and Leia couldn't deal and each retreated into their own comfort zones... But that needed to happen onscreen, not off. TFA needed to be, under any title, "a new Star Wars". I.e., introducing the new Hero and having them come into their own, setting the stage with what's changed since last time, while the outgoing Hero of the last cycle has his Final Trial & Apotheosis. But the narrative choices they made, the sequence they went with, the start point they picked...?

And yeah, [Luke] attempted to murder his nephew. Or does using the force negate all responsibility of actions?

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Real-world analogue: If I feel threatened by you and draw a gun and hold it ready, then change my mind and decide to holster it, but it's too late -- you saw the gun and me looking at you and assumed the worst, so you draw on me and it's on.

If Luke had swung, only to have Ben wake up and block the blow, that'd be attempted murder.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:

Oh that's scene. I'm glad he forgot. That would have been weird to see a cybernetic hand suddenly roll down the rock.........

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That sounds a little convenient to me from someone who posts about canon so regularly. The point is he FORGOT about it, such was his focus on destroying Luke in HIS movie.

Johnsons negligence has inadvertently left the door open for Abrams bringing living Luke back in Ep Nein though, if he does, I bet he claims Rian`s brilliant writing and direction allowed this to happen.:lol
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sztriki said:

For the record the mechanical hand in the end does not make or break anything in that movie for me...

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For me, the movie was broken about 2 hours and fifteen minutes before that scene anyway.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Inquisitor Peregrinus said:

I hang this one on JJ as much as KK. Several of us have discussed his beloved "Mystery Box" over the last few years, and this is one result. The transitional period is at least vaguely mapped out internal to Lucasfilm. But since we're not privy to that, it's incumbent on the filmmakers to show us what's essential to understand what's going on and tweak the non-essential to suit run-time, pacing, character development, etc. What @Joek3rr referenced is part of the canon -- inasmuch as it's been shown so far. For twenty-five years after Return of the Jedi, Luke was being a galaxy-saving Jedi Knight hero and training a new generation of Jedi; Han and Leia were together and in love, even if their respective lives often kept them apart; the Empire had surrendered early on and the First Order was still gathering itself and waiting to go public.

It was only in the last 3-4 years prior to TFA that everything went to hell again. Ben went Dark Side, Luke blamed himself and went Walkabout, Han and Leia couldn't deal and each retreated into their own comfort zones... But that needed to happen onscreen, not off. TFA needed to be, under any title, "a new Star Wars". I.e., introducing the new Hero and having them come into their own, setting the stage with what's changed since last time, while the outgoing Hero of the last cycle has his Final Trial & Apotheosis. But the narrative choices they made, the sequence they went with, the start point they picked...?

https://i.imgur.com/3w52xr8.gif



Real-world analogue: If I feel threatened by you and draw a gun and hold it ready, then change my mind and decide to holster it, but it's too late -- you saw the gun and me looking at you and assumed the worst, so you draw on me and it's on.

If Luke had swung, only to have Ben wake up and block the blow, that'd be attempted murder.

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While I agree "attempted murder" is not accurate to how the scene portrayed Luke's behavior, neither is your real world analogy.
More accurate real world analogy: My nephew is staying with me for the summer apprenticing in the trades, I notice some disturbing anti social tendencies in his behavior. One night I have a terrible dream involving him going on a killing rampage. I'm so distraught over how real it seemed that I get up, take my loaded .45 into his room and point it at his sleeping head.
Luke didn't feel threatened, he behaved like a total psychopath. I know some people explain away his actions as the darkside taking over but that just doesn't work for me. I can't connect the character from the OT to TLJ, maybe further exposition about the years leading up to TFA would have helped but Luke in TLJ isn't a character I can empathize with or even have sympathy for.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Mr Webber said:

That sounds a little convenient to me from someone who posts about canon so regularly. The point is he FORGOT about it, such was his focus on destroying Luke in HIS movie.

Johnsons negligence has inadvertently left the door open for Abrams bringing living Luke back in Ep Nein though, if he does, I bet he claims Rian`s brilliant writing and direction allowed this to happen.:lol

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Where's the evidence that he wanted to "destroy" Luke? Have you even heard the reasons that Rian had for killing Luke? He's said that he realized the the filmmakers for Ep9 were going to have alot of characters to juggle. (This decision being made before Carrie passed away). And he felt if he were to kill of Luke. That would allow the next group more flexibility. If they chose not only bring him back, great! But if they decide the do they can do it as a Force ghost. A win, win situation. Not to mention that I'm thrilled with the prospect of getting a Force ghost Luke.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Bigdaddy said:

While I agree "attempted murder" is not accurate to how the scene portrayed Luke's behavior, neither is your real world analogy.
More accurate real world analogy: My nephew is staying with me for the summer apprenticing in the trades, I notice some disturbing anti social tendencies in his behavior. One night I have a terrible dream involving him going on a killing rampage. I'm so distraught over how real it seemed that I get up, take my loaded .45 into his room and point it at his sleeping head.
Luke didn't feel threatened, he behaved like a total psychopath. I know some people explain away his actions as the darkside taking over but that just doesn't work for me. I can't connect the character from the OT to TLJ, maybe further exposition about the years leading up to TFA would have helped but Luke in TLJ isn't a character I can empathize with or even have sympathy for.

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Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side. A little innocent kid that was trained by the best Jedi of the Era. Slaughtered a bunch little kids. And attempted to kill the love of his life. Remember the Dark Side is “Quicker, easier, more seductive.”

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:

Where's the evidence that he wanted to "destroy" Luke? Have you even heard the reasons that Rian had for killing Luke? He's said that he realized the the filmmakers for Ep9 were going to have alot of characters to juggle. (This decision being made before Carrie passed away). And he felt if he were to kill of Luke. That would allow the next group more flexibility. If they chose not only bring him back, great! But if they decide the do they can do it as a Force ghost. A win, win situation. Not to mention that I'm thrilled with the prospect of getting a Force ghost Luke.

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This post more than any other has convinced me that you have decided to camp in this thread with the sole intention to just derail and troll it. I wont be participating in your efforts any longer.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Mr Webber said:

This post more than any other has convinced me that you have decided to camp in this thread with the sole intention to just derail and troll it. I wont be participating in your efforts any longer.

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Derail? This thread is about the rumor that Kathleen Kennedy might be stepping down. The prime reasons that people want her to step down are The Last Jedi, the hiring of Rian Johnson, the "destroying" the characters of the OT.......just to name a few. So I'm sharing my thoughts on why the I don't think the characters were ruined, and that for the time being Kathleen is doing her job that George wanted her to do.

The rest of this thread is wild speculation on what's going on behind closed doors. And due the rules at here that RPF, we can't get into the real problems going on.

And on the topic of wild speculation If Kathleen was really ruining Star Wars as bad as some fans think. Might George come out and say something? There's got to be a good reason that he appointed her. After all, they've been friends for at least 40 years.

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:

Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side. A little innocent kid that was trained by the best Jedi of the Era. Slaughtered a bunch little kids. And attempted to kill the love of his life. Remember the Dark Side is “Quicker, easier, more seductive.”

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As I mentioned in the post you quoted, using the darkside as an excuse for bad writing or every terrible action a character takes doesn't work for me. If it works for you, great enjoy. For the record Anakin didn't TRY to kill his wife, he did!
"Do or do not... there is no try."

Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

It's clear that George Lucas wants nothing to do with Star Wars so I doubt he would weigh in on the goings on of his former company. The press can barely get a word out of him regarding his opinion on the new films. He was telling people for years that he would quit making movies for the public altogether and retire. In 2012 he did just that.

Frankly I don't see much point if Kathleen Kennedy steps down or not and having her replaced by some one else won't fix the problems with the content coming from Lucasfilm. It comes down to vision and it's clear there are few (if any) visionaries left in Hollywood anymore. For all of his flaws as a director and writer Lucas IS a visionary and he just needed the right people around him that would steer that vision in the right direction. There will never be another George Lucas. Star Wars will never be the same. No matter who heads Lucasfilm or what they write. It's just not special anymore. Those original three films were, but everything after was well let's face it, just filler.

The fundamental problem with Star Wars is also the same thing that made it such a monolithic success. It's themes of friendship and sacrifice and redemption were so open ended that audiences could interpret ANY meaning into it that made sense to them to the point where they internalized it and it means something different to everyone. Lucas himself attributed the success of the films to the "psychological underpinning motifs" that have resonated with human beings for thousands of years. The problem with this is that not only do most modern film makers have NO CLUE what a theme is or understand basic story structure enough to create characters to illustrate those themes, but the interpretations of what Star Wars actually means is so subjective that to try and fit it into one box simply doesn't work. Audiences may not be able to fully articulate what it is that isn't working with the story, but they know somehow that something is off.

With the originals we got Lucas's vision but filtered through other talented people who kept that vision in focus.

With the prequels we got Lucas's vision unfiltered by any criticism and so he overdid it.

With the sequels we got directors who were fans of the series trying to recreate what they apparently loved about the originals and so they came off as cheap knock offs. Were there cool moments in some of them? Sure, but overall they weren't anything special either. There have been 4 films now in 3 years and out of the 4 different directors haven't we even come close to anything remarkable, or frankly all that memorable.

That's all we will ever get from now on when it comes to Star Wars. Just fans making films in George Lucas's sandbox. I know I thought for years that it was a great idea but now seeing it in actual execution I'm not even remotely impressed or excited.