Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

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Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Don't be ridiculous.

It’s hyperbole meant to illustrate to lengths some of the members go to to make some type of connection between TLJ Luke and OT Luke, of which I agree with you is ridiculous.

“In ROTJ, While fighting for his life and lives of his friends with the most evil men in the galaxy, Luke got really mad when Vader started threatening his sister too. That’s the same dark side behavior that he showed when sneaking into his nephews bedroom while asleep to murder him.” Talk about over- reaching fan theories


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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I don't think either side of this argument gets to accuse the other of being absurd.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Tapatalk is freezing up constantly on my iPhone. So much so, it’s difficult to really follow this thread in real time.

But. So many ideas here. To add a few more....

I watched Luke - over the course of four decades - start out as a fairly whiney young kid, who matured into an impressive hero type, and ended up a grumpy old man. That’s pretty normal, really.

Perhaps the lesson here is that none of us should see our heroes grow old. At least, not for entertainment.




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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Tapatalk is freezing up constantly on my iPhone. So much so, it’s difficult to really follow this thread in real time.

But. So many ideas here. To add a few more....

I watched Luke - over the course of four decades - start out as a fairly whiney young kid, who matured into an impressive hero type, and ended up a grumpy old man. That’s pretty normal, really.

Perhaps the lesson here is that none of us should see our heroes grow old. At least, not for entertainment.


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I'm willing to brush aside everything to agree with that.

I don't think either side of this argument gets to accuse the other of being absurd.

Some of us have been very level headed and used contextual evidence for the basis of our complaints and engaged in civil discourse.
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

In that scene, Luke did not attack vader either. He was watching the Emperor slaughter or trying to slaughter the rebel fleet. He went for his saber to strike down the emperor who was responsible for everything. Not vader. I don't imagine he felt he was leaving that room. If he gets the emperor, odds are vader gets him before he can do anything else. As it was, vader was faster than that blocking his attempt at taking down the emperor.

At that point Luke DID NOT fight vader. he hid under the platform until vader threatened to go after Leia. At that point he fought back and ultimately stopped vader. He was not going for the kill either before the emperor tried to goad him on. He had the blade at his throat essentially saying I won. Then emperor then tried to goad him on to kill him at which point he used that break to calm down further and say no.

In the OT, Luke overcame his anger to save his father - which was one his major goals - and simultaneously defeat the emperor’s effort to turn him [Luke] to the dark side.

In whatever you call TLJ, Luke paused in his fear and didn’t kill the nascent Hitler (as a child) forming before his Jedi eye. At least, that is the story the movies seemed to be telling. One series may have done a better job than the other. Else-wise, 40 years of hindsight has rendered the OT more comprehensible.

To be fair, saving your father and choosing not to be evil has got to be the easier storyline to sell. Hero chooses to be a good guy. Awards all around.

Killing you kin to save millions of strangers from potential death, torture, and oppression is probably a more complex and nuanced storyline. Hero chooses to do evil to accomplish good. Your going to get awards from some; hate mail from others.






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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I'm willing to brush aside everything to agree with that.



Some of us have been very level headed and used contextual evidence for the basis of our complaints and engaged in civil discourse.

SOME of us sure... others.. less so!
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

In the OT, Luke overcame his anger to save his father - which was one his major goals - and simultaneously defeat the emperor’s effort to turn him [Luke] to the dark side.

In whatever you call TLJ, Luke paused in his fear and didn’t kill the nascent Hitler (as a child) forming before his Jedi eye. At least, that is the story the movies seemed to be telling. One series may have done a better job than the other. Else-wise, 40 years of hindsight has rendered the OT more comprehensible.

To be fair, saving your father and choosing not to be evil has got to be the easier storyline to sell. Hero chooses to be a good guy. Awards all around.

Killing you kin to save millions of strangers from potential death, torture, and oppression is probably a more complex and nuanced storyline. Hero chooses to do evil to accomplish good. Your going to get awards from some; hate mail from others.






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Potential

And there in lies the rub.

Luke had his moments of doubt in the OT, but in all cases he was actively facing people who have killed billions of people (the death star) and facing directly the two most responsible for those billions and a helluva lot more. I.e. people who have been proved to be completely evil.

In TLJ, he considers murdering a minor in his sleep, who's completely defenseless on a maybe. A maybe. Force visions are not set in stone. We're told that the same moment we're told force visions exist. There's simply no way he moves to cold blooded murder when Ben had don't nothing wrong at that point. If the prior events of that day showed Ben hacking up a few 3rd graders or something - ok, i'm listening. Still not buying it, but listening. When he'd done nothing, just no.

He hesitated and had self control when dealing with his father and the emperor - neither of whom he knew for @#$% and had killed billions of people. He's going to jump to the same point, actually much FURTHER down the line to evil when dealing with his nephew who was what? late teens early 20's at that point? Family he'd known the kids entire life?

Just no way in hell. There are just too many ways to have handled it at that point.

Try and contrast it however you want - the emperor goaded him in to the initial attack, vader goaded him into going at it again. Both times he did it to their faces ready to face the consequences. Again, against those who were overwhelmingly guilty of the worst things imaginable. Anyone equating that to sneaking up on your nephew in the middle of the night and stabbing him on the back when he'd done nothing evil doesn't get it frankly.

*I* get the 'oh not this again' thing. But there are degrees with dealing with it. That's THE last step in the line, not the first. Even a grumpy Luke would know that.

The crowning achievement of BS in that regard in TLJ is - even if you accept that failed premise, Luke's response is 'Well, i created the problem, sorry universe, it's your problem now - i quit'. If you but RJ's premise, that he'd consider killing him within millimeters of doing so - then when controlling himself and stopping, he's not going to simply through his hands up and quit and dump him on the universe.

The two scenarios (ROTJ/TLJ) are radically different.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The crowning achievement of BS in that regard in TLJ is - even if you accept that failed premise, Luke's response is 'Well, i created the problem, sorry universe, it's your problem now - i quit'.

THIS is my main ailment with this whole setup as well. And that the movie picks this story thread to spend the most time with, try and explain Luke's state of mind, the back and forth between "you gotta come back and help" and "nah, it won't be any help because", all those interviews and tweets to give further context and depth to how Luke thinks and then nearly at the 2 hours mark the film gets to the point where it explicitly says that actually Luke is wrong...when it's obvious from the very start that he is wrong to even the smallest kid in the audience!
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Yah! After posting videos of RJ admitting he wants half the audience to hate his movies, after admitting he writes poorly. No level of proof, not even direct admission is sufficient.

Quite...

Some people will refuse to believe things no matter what you do, what logical approach to a conversation you take. Try to appeal to their emotional connection to the series and they say you harm your credibility. The best way is just to move on from Star Wars. I guess in this respect, Luke Skywalker is right. Become a hermit and hate everything. Don't get involved.
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Some people will refuse to believe things no matter what you do, what logical approach to a conversation you take. Try to appeal to their emotional connection to the series and they say you harm your credibility. The best way is just to move on from Star Wars. I guess in this respect, Luke Skywalker is right. Become a hermit and hate everything. Don't get involved.

The people who like what is broken in tlj are have helped define what is wrong. Like the Voltaire quote about making his enemies ridiculous, the truth is out. The point is to keep the signal going, to remind everyone how nuts/ stupid tlj was. The goal is for those responsible to reconsider and actually deliver a real story to the fans. Not to the people who liked the noises and pretty colors or forced diversity crap.

After all, we are paying their paychecks. For those who dont think fans matter, then why are you here? If Disney spent 4 Billion to kills Star Wars, then atleast we can say we tried. It would be wrong to let them drive Star wars off a cliff without pointing that out.

Can't stop the signal, Mal.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Take this with a big grain of salt, I mean big. But I've heard rumors that they can't just up and fire her because no one wants the responsibility. No one wants to get volunteer themselves to get crucified.

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The people who like what is broken in tlj are have helped define what is wrong. Like the Voltaire quote about making his enemies ridiculous, the truth is out. The point is to keep the signal going, to remind everyone how nuts/ stupid tlj was. The goal is for those responsible to reconsider and actually deliver a real story to the fans. Not to the people who liked the noises and pretty colors or forced diversity crap.

After all, we are paying their paychecks. For those who dont think fans matter, then why are you here? If Disney spent 4 Billion to kills Star Wars, then atleast we can say we tried. It would be wrong to let them drive Star wars off a cliff without pointing that out.

Can't stop the signal, Mal.

Sometimes I feel like i'm fighting an upward battle with this argument. It's good to see so many likes in a lot of my posts in this thread. I guess that's all that keeps me going and pushing the debate forward...that and my love and passion for Star Wars.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

If and when KK gets the, "yer fired," cobra, we already know the arguments her defenders will use.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

It’s hyperbole meant to illustrate to lengths some of the members go to to make some type of connection between TLJ Luke and OT Luke, of which I agree with you is ridiculous.

“In ROTJ, While fighting for his life and lives of his friends with the most evil men in the galaxy, Luke got really mad when Vader started threatening his sister too. That’s the same dark side behavior that he showed when sneaking into his nephews bedroom while asleep to murder him.” Talk about over- reaching fan theories


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It's not the same Dark Side attitude. It's just the Dark Side. As I've said before the Dark Side will have you doing things that you wouldn't even normally consider. The the mere notion of killing his nephew would have under any other circumstances. Or a non Force sensitive person. Would have been so slight, so distant, that nothing would have happened. Add the Dark Side, and that distant speck of a thought, becomes something way more.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Yah! After posting videos of RJ admitting he wants half the audience to hate his movies, after admitting he writes poorly. No level of proof, not even direct admission is sufficient.

Quite...

I was referring to the assertion that we would defend child molestation. Don't be disingenuous.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The point is to keep the signal going, to remind everyone how nuts/ stupid tlj was. The goal is for those responsible to reconsider and actually deliver a real story to the fans. Not to the people who liked the noises and pretty colors or forced diversity crap.

This, I think, rather sums up your position succinctly. So it *IS* about repeating the same position over and over until someone agrees with you, I guess? (The someone being LFL and/or Disney)

Good luck with making them bend to your will.

I think it's actually very telling that you draw a distinction between "The Fans" and "Those who liked the noises and pretty colours or forced diversity crap".

That is also alot like painting everyone whom you see as not agreeing with you with the same brush... which is what those of us who don't agree with your assessment of TLJ are constantly accused of doing.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Its laughable that some claim the high ground in terms of civility and level headed arguments yet have had posts removed by the moderators. Just sayin.

So this thread is full of great points about a lot of things not related to the topic but does anyone have any thoughts about Kennedy`s replacement and what that replacement faces in returning Star Wars to its former glory?
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Its laughable that some claim the high ground in terms of civility and level headed arguments yet have had posts removed by the moderators. Just sayin.

So this thread is full of great points about a lot of things not related to the topic but does anyone have any thoughts about Kennedy`s replacement and what that replacement faces in returning Star Wars to its former glory?

Sure I've got some thoughts on it, mostly that it will never be returned to it's former glory! I don't see any way it could happen, regardless of who's in charge of LFL. If you don't like the direction of the ST (like me) there's no way of undoing it.
Even the prequels damaged the OT. Star Wars glory days ended with ROTJ. It's Disney's now and they don't care if some fans don't like what they're doing with it. They should be (and are) focused on kids with cartoons and theme parks. That's where the long term money is. My kid slept on my SW, ESB and ROTJ sheets as a kid, I didn't buy new ones for her so they didn't get any money from me even though I'm a big fan. Same with her toys, all purchased off eBay since a lot of them weren't available in stores when Santa brought them. People like me aren't their customer, just a fan. Fans that aren't likely purchasers don't mean anything to a business, Star Wars is just a business now.
Disney is beholden only to share holders and SW is a tiny portion of the company, wailing away about it won't change anything.
 
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