Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

As I mentioned in the post you quoted, using the darkside as an excuse for bad writing or every terrible action a character takes doesn't work for me. If it works for you, great enjoy. For the record Anakin didn't TRY to kill his wife, he did!
"Do or do not... there is no try." ;)

I see the Force as a metaphor for human nature. We all have the ability to do great things. But also very terrible things. In addition i kinda like to think of the Force like the super serum form Captain America. What's good in a person the Light Side makes better. But what's bad in a person the Dark Side make worse.

So for instance. Luke may have had the notion to kill his nephew when went into his hut. But it was deep down in darkest crevices of his mind. But add the Dark Side, and that super brief notion is brought to the front, and he acts upon it.

I don't think I'm doing a good job explaining my thoughts :D
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

It's clear that George Lucas wants nothing to do with Star Wars so I doubt he would weigh in on the goings on of his former company. The press can barely get a word out of him regarding his opinion on the new films. He was telling people for years that he would quit making movies for the public altogether and retire. In 2012 he did just that.

Frankly I don't see much point if Kathleen Kennedy steps down or not and having her replaced by some one else won't fix the problems with the content coming from Lucasfilm. It comes down to vision and it's clear there are few (if any) visionaries left in Hollywood anymore. For all of his flaws as a director and writer Lucas IS a visionary and he just needed the right people around him that would steer that vision in the right direction. There will never be another George Lucas. Star Wars will never be the same. No matter who heads Lucasfilm or what they write. It's just not special anymore. Those original three films were, but everything after was well let's face it, just filler.

The fundamental problem with Star Wars is also the same thing that made it such a monolithic success. It's themes of friendship and sacrifice and redemption were so open ended that audiences could interpret ANY meaning into it that made sense to them to the point where they internalized it and it means something different to everyone. Lucas himself attributed the success of the films to the "psychological underpinning motifs" that have resonated with human beings for thousands of years. The problem with this is that not only do most modern film makers have NO CLUE what a theme is or understand basic story structure enough to create characters to illustrate those themes, but the interpretations of what Star Wars actually means is so subjective that to try and fit it into one box simply doesn't work. Audiences may not be able to fully articulate what it is that isn't working with the story, but they know somehow that something is off.

With the originals we got Lucas's vision but filtered through other talented people who kept that vision in focus.

With the prequels we got Lucas's vision unfiltered by any criticism and so he overdid it.

With the sequels we got directors who were fans of the series trying to recreate what they apparently loved about the originals and so they came off as cheap knock offs. Were there cool moments in some of them? Sure, but overall they weren't anything special either. There have been 4 films now in 3 years and out of the 4 different directors haven't we even come close to anything remarkable, or frankly all that memorable.

That's all we will ever get from now on when it comes to Star Wars. Just fans making films in George Lucas's sandbox. I know I thought for years that it was a great idea but now seeing it in actual execution I'm not even remotely impressed or excited.

Well said
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Where's the evidence that he wanted to "destroy" Luke? Have you even heard the reasons that Rian had for killing Luke? He's said that he realized the the filmmakers for Ep9 were going to have alot of characters to juggle. (This decision being made before Carrie passed away). And he felt if he were to kill of Luke. That would allow the next group more flexibility. If they chose not only bring him back, great! But if they decide the do they can do it as a Force ghost. A win, win situation. Not to mention that I'm thrilled with the prospect of getting a Force ghost Luke.
Ah right, that all makes sense now. A film with lots of characters never worked and never will. Hopefully Marvel get the message and sort themselves out. If only they spoke to RJ first!
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Where's the evidence that he wanted to "destroy" Luke? Have you even heard the reasons that Rian had for killing Luke? He's said that he realized the the filmmakers for Ep9 were going to have alot of characters to juggle. (This decision being made before Carrie passed away). And he felt if he were to kill of Luke. That would allow the next group more flexibility. If they chose not only bring him back, great! But if they decide the do they can do it as a Force ghost. A win, win situation. Not to mention that I'm thrilled with the prospect of getting a Force ghost Luke.

How do the maths add up though?
Holdo is dead. Han is dead. Snoke is dead. Phasma is dead. DJ is gone and absolutely no indication in TLJ that he would be developed into anything significant. Maz is marginal.

So basically he traded in Luke for Rose?
Also Mark is on record that he basically asked Rian to hold his death off until Ep9.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Ah right, that all makes sense now. A film with lots of characters never worked and never will. Hopefully Marvel get the message and sort themselves out. If only they spoke to RJ first!

But we've got something like 20 Marvel films. With 3 of those being big team up films. The other 17 are films for particular characters. Compare that to 3 films we will get from the sequel trilogy. Big difference in the amount of screen time everyone gets. So Rian trimmed the fat, that way they can end the stories of the new characters, and the saga as a whole. After all, Luke's story arc is really ANH to ROTJ. He was the main character of OT, now he's second fiddle in the ST. We already seen this with Anakin. He's is the focus of the PT, but he becomes more of secondary character in the OT. Someone added up all the screen time Vader had, it's surprisingly short.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

How do the maths add up though?
Holdo is dead. Han is dead. Snoke is dead. Phasma is dead. DJ is gone and absolutely no indication in TLJ that he would be developed into anything significant. Maz is marginal.

So basically he traded in Luke for Rose?
Also Mark is on record that he basically asked Rian to hold his death off until Ep9.

Rian wanted to take the three main heros. Rey, Finn, Poe. And the villian, Kylo. Introduce characters that would challenge the main characters. He also added obstacles for our characters to overcome, of which they almost all fail at. So you have something like this.

Rey - Kylo, Luke
Finn - Rose, DJ
Poe - Leia, Holdo
Kylo - Rey, Snoke

Everthing is broken down in 4 groups of 3. With the 2 supporting characters acting like foils, and in general opposites the main characters.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Rian wanted to take the three main heros. Rey, Finn, Poe. And the villian, Kylo. Introduce characters that would challenge the main characters. He also added obstacles for our characters to overcome, of which they almost all fail at. So you have something like this.

Rey - Kylo, Luke
Finn - Rose, DJ
Poe - Leia, Holdo
Kylo - Rey, Snoke

Everthing is broken down in 4 groups of 3. With the 2 supporting characters acting like foils, and in general opposites the main characters.
That's all nice and dandy, but what I meant was how does the maths add up to justify the need for killing Luke off regarding "too many characters".
Given that almost all new characters introduced in TLJ are dead or sent on their way except for Rose and two characters from TFA are killed off as well there's hardly a clutter of characters for Ep9 that would make it too difficult to juggle.
If anything he should have let Finn die. That would have made a real impact, give him a character arc and "clean up space" regarding the character list.
Also given the fact that both Carrie and Mark are confirmed to appear in Ep9 it doesn't really seem like anyone from Ep9 wanted that space cleared.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

That's all nice and dandy, but what I meant was how does the maths add up to justify the need for killing Luke off regarding "too many characters".
Given that almost all new characters introduced in TLJ are dead or sent on their way except for Rose and two characters from TFA are killed off as well there's hardly a clutter of characters for Ep9 that would make it too difficult to juggle.
If anything he should have let Finn die. That would have made a real impact, give him a character arc and "clean up space" regarding the character list.
Also given the fact that both Carrie and Mark are confirmed to appear in Ep9 it doesn't really seem like anyone from Ep9 wanted that space cleared.

Oh and DJ isn't dead yet, so we could see him show up again.

Personally they should have left Phasma in TFA, they only brought her back for one fight. But Rian probably didn't know just how little she would actually end up in the film for. (TFA)

So I really think it's to give them options. So Luke is dead, we can leave him, or bring him back as Force ghost. Which could really work out, particularly if we get appearances from Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin, maybe even Qui-Gon.

So really the only character introduced in TLJ that dies, Is Holdo. The others were from TFA.

I have mixed emotions about whether or not Finn should have died. On one hand I'm like yes he should have. And on the other hand I'm nah I like Finn I'm not ready for him to die.

I know it seem like Rian really killed off a lot of stuff in his movie. But really all he did was give more options. I felt that way when I left the theater. But we still have the Knights of Ren, the allies in the unknown regions, plus some new characters incoming. (Darth Talon?:$ Thrawn?:D) So there's quite a bit left. Plus now Poe is going to become the new leader of the Resistance. Rey is going to continue learning how the Force works, and I'm hoping they show her struggling with the Dark Side.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side.

I don't think you understand the force.
The "Dark Side" isn't some external entity like satan going around and possessing people.
The dark side is internal - it's only physical manifestations are in the choices people make.
The struggle between the light and dark side is also internal - it's in your heart and mind, man.
The force doesn't "do" things. It just "is".
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I don't think you understand the force.
The "Dark Side" isn't some external entity like satan going around and possessing people.
The dark side is internal - it's only physical manifestations are in the choices people make.
The struggle between the light and dark side is also internal - it's in your heart and mind, man.
The force doesn't "do" things. It just "is".

I'd say it's both. Internal and external. Everything is connected in a circle.

As an example-
Why does Anakin kill all kids? He killed them because of the Dark Side.
Well is he using the Dark Side? Because he killed all the kids.

So it's both. I mean Obi-Wan says Vader was seduced by the Dark Side. So Force does "do" things, but at the same time it just "is".

The Force is a seeming paradox. One statement about it is true, while the exact opposite is also true. Continually we are told that the Force guides/controls everything. But also that a person is responsible for his or her destiny. It seems odd, until you realize that the Force transcends time and space, so it can seemingly contradict itself, so it can seem like a paradox, when in fact it isn't.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I'd say it's both. Internal and external. Everything is connected in a circle.

As an example-
Why does Anakin kill all kids? He killed them because of the Dark Side.
Well is he using the Dark Side? Because he killed all the kids.

So it's both. I mean Obi-Wan says Vader was seduced by the Dark Side. So Force does "do" things, but at the same time it just "is".

The Force is a seeming paradox. One statement about it is true, while the exact opposite is also true. Continually we are told that the Force guides/controls everything. But also that a person is responsible for his or her destiny. It seems odd, until you realize that the Force transcends time and space, so it can seemingly contradict itself, so it can seem like a paradox, when in fact it isn't.

I don't get it. Are you actually Rian or something?

I mean, i get you liked it and all, but go back over the last, what? 5-10 pages? Maybe more - you're defending this thing more than i've seen anyone defend something here ever. There are some people who liked it, but aren't vociferous about it. There are some who don't like it and aren't too vocal either. But the steadfast, never ending defense seems rather odd.

Anakin didn't kill kids because of the dark side. He did it due to poor writing and being incredibly stupid beyond belief. That was the problem - it was completely unbelievable.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

As an example-
Why does Anakin kill all kids? He killed them because of the Dark Side.
Well is he using the Dark Side? Because he killed all the kids.

The dark side didn't "make him do it". He made a choice.

So it's both. I mean Obi-Wan says Vader was seduced by the Dark Side. So Force does "do" things, but at the same time it just "is".

The seduction was the power Vader would gain by doing evil things.
The dark side wasn't sitting on his shoulder like a cartoon devil whispering in his ear.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I don't get it. Are you actually Rian or something?

I mean, i get you liked it and all, but go back over the last, what? 5-10 pages? Maybe more - you're defending this thing more than i've seen anyone defend something here ever. There are some people who liked it, but aren't vociferous about it. There are some who don't like it and aren't too vocal either. But the steadfast, never ending defense seems rather odd.

Anakin didn't kill kids because of the dark side. He did it due to poor writing and being incredibly stupid beyond belief. That was the problem - it was completely unbelievable.

I'm defending the Star Wars that I love. Which is pretty much all of it, including most of Legends. I find people saying things that don't exactly align with the canon. So I like sharing my thoughts on the matter. And I hate to see the fandom so torn apart by this stuff. Most of due to misunderstanding the content. Not that I understand it any better.


Oh and I love a good argument :p get that from my mother :D
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The dark side didn't "make him do it". He made a choice.



The seduction was the power Vader would gain by doing evil things.
The dark side wasn't sitting on his shoulder like a cartoon devil whispering in his ear.

Really? Then how do you explain him murdering his wife? There more involved here. The fact is, the Force controls people, it has a will. Both the Dark Side and the Light Side. I couldn't tell you how it all works but it does. It's more then just personal choices and emotions at work. There is something far greater.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

IOh and I love a good argument :p get that from my mother :D

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Well, he was choking her out when he was interrupted. Last he saw she was unconscious. Palpatine told him he'd killed her. *shrug*
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Wait, people here think that Anakin murdered Padme? :behave

From a certain point a view yes. " I don't know you anymore. Anakin, you're breaking my heart. You're going down a path I can't follow."- Padme.

Later

"Medically, she's completely healthy. For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her."

"She's dying?"

"We don't know why. She has lost the will to live."
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

People die from a broken heart / will to live in real life . It doesn’t happen as quickly as it appears to in the film , but I’ve seen it ( unfortunately ) happen firsthand .
Apologies for going morbid and somewhat off topic .

Ged
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

But we've got something like 20 Marvel films. With 3 of those being big team up films. The other 17 are films for particular characters. Compare that to 3 films we will get from the sequel trilogy. Big difference in the amount of screen time everyone gets. So Rian trimmed the fat, that way they can end the stories of the new characters, and the saga as a whole. After all, Luke's story arc is really ANH to ROTJ. He was the main character of OT, now he's second fiddle in the ST. We already seen this with Anakin. He's is the focus of the PT, but he becomes more of secondary character in the OT. Someone added up all the screen time Vader had, it's surprisingly short.
You just referred to the death of Luke Skywalker as "trimming the fat"! The death of the most well known pop culture icon of all time, in the mist beloved franchise of all time, is trimming the fat!
Let that sink in a bit.
Your opinion on Star Wars is now moo.
 
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