Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Marvel does the 6 month gap (or less) thing yearly and has for like a freaking decade. So it's less so the timing of it.

I think the big thing is that no one was clamoring for this. It wasn't really needed and it wasn't asked for. There were 3 character movies talked about prior to TFA. Han, Fett, and Ben. The only one I personally had any interest in was Ben. That may have a lot to do with the fact it'd star Ewan doing Ben (whom i like and think does great with the role). That in and of itself isn't an indictment of Alden. I don't have a any real issues with him even in this role, though i admit i thought it was a less than ideal choice. But, even at that, i'm not 'ohh i gotta see that ben movie'. I don't think it'll approach SW BO levels either.

Another big thing is the general public likely didn't identify the movie as likely good. There were publicly known issues (from fans) about casting, multiple articles and the directors being fired, etc. Nothing about it screamed success.

Couple that stuff with bad feelings with a large part of the core fan base over TLJ and you have the makings of something not likely to be a big hit. The studio didn't do much of anything to generate interest or positive word prior to the opening either. For a SW flick - it kinda flew under the radar with very limited ads. I don't think too much of movies when the majority of the commericials are here's product A, it's really cool, you should buy this (with SW music in the background) and once the commercial ends See Solo in theaters. To me, that's if YOU don't care enough to advertise your own movie, why should i care to see it? An SW is not the only movie that does this and I feel the same regardless. Have the balls to promote your own stuff.

There was a singular aspect of this that was supposed to be a draw for people: It was a move about a beloved character. That, in and of itself, does not make anyone want to see it. You still have to give people a reason to WANT to see it.

It's what makes me think IX's sales will be a far cry from VIII. There isn't going to be a large 'want' out there. Even for those who liked TLJ, there's nothing we know of that will be in IX right now to make you WANT to see. You may be interested in continuation, but there's not a compelling reason.

There was a compelling reason to ESB even though there weren't really any loose ends from ANH. It was a massive hit and people wanted more.
ROTJ had open plot lines to be concluded and ESB was excellent and people WANTED more.
(people wanted more after ROTJ, but had to wait 16 years to get it).
TPM had want. Then people saw it :) But there was want.
Even at that AOTC and ROTS still had want because people knew how things ended but wanted to see how it got there. The want was waning a bit though

Nothing again. But when sequels were anounced, people wanted to see VII. Badly. It left open stories and people wanted to see luke, badly still.
So there was want for TLJ. The last jedi kind of stomped on the heart of SW and even if you disagree, the core audience are fans of the originals and they showed they don't really care about that group. Plus, they didn't leave any real loose ends.

So, is there really any "Want" left out there for IX?

To tie this back to KK and ILM. That's kind of the job of the studio - to keep that want there. To keep the people interested. Doesn't matter how good or bad a flick is if no one wants to see it in the first place. I'm sorry, but that is WHY you have a story group. You do not take star wars and create a trilogy and tell the first guy 'do whatever you want' and then tell the second guy pick up where the first guy left off and do whatever you want and the third guy just has to deal with the whole thing and end it. No, no, no.

You need at least a loosely defined plan. Directors, are hired to DIRECT a story. Not to create the whole thing. Writers create the story and the writers tend to have to answer to someone. Whether that's the person who created the story or the studio. But there needs to be a story and the directors are hired to execute the story. That's the entire point of the job, right? To execute the story. It is not to create and execute it. People get sick of marvel comparisons, i know, but it's the closest thing we've got. The Russo's directed Infinity War (and part 4). They couldn't do whatever they wanted as there was a plan in place over a 10 year span. I'm sure there had ample freedom, but not complete. They were hired to do the infinity war and they were told what had to be accomplished. So far, they've done brilliantly. They were not able to do whatever they wanted. Period. There were specific guidelines. it's part of the job. I'm sure they were free to argue a point if they felt something needed adjusted but they couldn't just up and do whatever they wanted.

Not having that for this trilogy and beyond is completely on the studio and the lead. I think that's a big part of the problem. You can't guide something you want to keep going for a long time without having a targeted plan. They seem to have failed in that respect and I think it's really hurting things now.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The bombs were armed by remote control. Why not wait til they leave the craft? Since you can arm them by pressing one button, wait til they are outside.

Dont you see, that isnt smart. So, you dont think it isnt dumb, and on this thread, other folks then claim we dont want substance, when that was the one thing we wanted most.

Six bombers, come flying in, if each came from six different directions, you'd reduced you incoming fire by nearly 83% if the enemy aims for each bomber equally. Instead, they were one big, easy target. They just has to hit ONE ship, and let the armed bombs do the rest.

Seriously.

People want to challenge that?

That wasnt wholly distracting? How can people still not see it?

Once again, not trying to be mean, but at what point do you sigh and realize it was dumb?
I am at work so I can't pull up the film and give it a point by point at the moment, but the whole thing with the bombers was always supposed to be a bad decision on Poe's part. It was supposed to be dumb so he can have an actual story arc.
Make a series of bad decisions, learn, make a good one.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Once EpIX is done I really hope they go far, far away from current timelines.

I agree. Although, I wouldn't mind playing in the same timelines we already have, but disconnected to the events we've seen. There's a huge underworld out there we could explore. There are civilians and independent folks who could be showcased. Bounty hunters, explorers, smugglers, etc. You could tell stories of Rebel cells far away from the main storyline we've seen. You could tell stories about Imperial troops in far-flung garrisons. You could focus on Clone troopers or Jedi during the Clone Wars era. You could do any number of things that have nothing to do with the main plot of the timeline we've seen. It doesn't have to tie back to any of that, even if it's in the same era.

BUT, you could also tell stories from far in the Star Wars universe's history, or far into its future.

It's an amazing setting just to play around in. There's a billion stories you can tell that don't require you to keep going back to the same story of the Episodes/Saga.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

See, the bomber thing was a part I didn't have an issue with (beyond the perennial sci-fi gripe of "there's no 'up' in space"). My granddad flew B-17s in WWII, and that felt pretty much like one of their bombing runs. Close formations so it was hard to target individual craft; expect to take losses, sometimes egregious ones, to accomplish the mission; and the bombs were armed manually while en route by one of the crew -- bet he'd wished for the simplicity of a remote control. Only "problem" of the scene was the context of the tactic. It works if you can replace the lost planes easily and immediately. Which is why the Allies ultimately won -- we were able to crank out heavy bombers and fighter escorts (and the men to fly them) faster than they could be shot down. But Poe doesn't have the resources he did while still a pilot for the Republic. Thinking/acting like he did when opting for that tactic was what he got demoted for. That is, it's a valid tactic, whose use was the wrong choice in the circumstance, and getting punished for using it to teach a lesson was relevant to the plot.

The bomber formations were also designed to provide overlapping fields of fire to cover against German fighters.

But yes, it makes sense that Poe would select that tactic at a really dumb moment. Something smarter would have been to try to delay or distract the First Order's dreadnought, to buy time for evacuation, and then haul ass out of there, taking as few losses as possible. The point was to cover the escape, not blow up the enemy ship. Especially when blowing up the enemy ship would cost you your entire strategic bomber force.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I am at work so I can't pull up the film and give it a point by point at the moment, but the whole thing with the bombers was always supposed to be a bad decision on Poe's part. It was supposed to be dumb so he can have an actual story arc.
Make a series of bad decisions, learn, make a good one.

But that is our point. The rebels are now incompetent. The First Order is incompetent. Star Wars is now about two incompetent armies making arms dealers rich. They make terrible decisions. Remember, one, sole bomber *did* get in. No one else recognized Poe had a bad idea?

If Billy told you to jump off a cliff, would you?

You can see it as driving the plot, but as Cephus stated, stupid things from stupid characters happen to push the plot along. It isnt appealing. It is distracting. No level of excuse will make it work.

- - - Updated - - -

Once EpIX is done I really hope they go far, far away from current timelines.

GL is talking about the Whills.
 
Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Maybe what hurt Solo was (among other things) indeed the actor choice.. no knock on him, but people want to see Han Solo IF it is actually Han Solo, who is Harrison Ford. Granted he’s in his 70s and couldn’t be the lead in his backstory, but without the “real” Han, a setting in the Star Wars universe just wasn’t enough. It would be like having a brand new cast hanging out the the coffee shop and even living in Jerry’s apartment, but it would never be enough for Seinfeld fans to call it “Seinfeld”. If Harrison would have been in it, maybe with him telling stories at a bar with Chewy then flashing back to Alden, it could have done better.

Same with the new trilogy. Minus all the plot holes/gripes/SJW complaints, people signed on because they wanted to see those classic actors reprise their roles. The whole reason for TFA was to find Luke, and every audience member in the theatre was looking for him too. Then Han died, but there was still the dangling carrot of Luke.

Come TLJ, Luke shows up finally and isn’t at all what most fans wanted or expected, then he dies. Then Carrie dies in real life. Now, there really isn’t anything of what brought those characters’ fans to the show now making them stay. In short, there’s no connection to the OT anymore but some set pieces like the falcon, the classic droids pushed aside to sell toys of B.B.-8, and a different guy in a Wookiee suit. The new cast (in my eyes) has not ever come close to be compelling enough for me to really care what happens to them. Rey will be a victorious All-powerful Jedi master because the 3 or 4 days of the first two movies already telegraphed that. Kylo? I don’t know but either he dies or he turns good. Finn? Rose? The other 6 people of the Resistance? I can’t say I care too much either. There’s no emotional investment from me in these characters. Maybe that’s different for little kids that likewise didn’t have that for the OT crew.

Maybe the best thing they truly CAN do is as was said earlier, move away from this timeline altogether. Once they do though, Star Wars will never be the BO juggernaught that it previously was, and they’ll have to get used to the fact it’ll just be another franchise of sci-fi. Im sure they’ll still wring the washcloth for every last drop they can.


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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I agree. Although, I wouldn't mind playing in the same timelines we already have, but disconnected to the events we've seen. There's a huge underworld out there we could explore. There are civilians and independent folks who could be showcased. Bounty hunters, explorers, smugglers, etc. You could tell stories of Rebel cells far away from the main storyline we've seen. You could tell stories about Imperial troops in far-flung garrisons. You could focus on Clone troopers or Jedi during the Clone Wars era. You could do any number of things that have nothing to do with the main plot of the timeline we've seen. It doesn't have to tie back to any of that, even if it's in the same era.

See, this is probably why I like Solo so much. It feels a lot like a continuation of the non-Anakin-focused parts of the Clone Wars. The bits involving fringers, Mandalorian politics, Maul's machinations, the impact of the ongoing conflict on the galactic population...
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Boy, you just love twisting words. He didn't say you, or anyone else who liked the film, are dumb. He said that he finds the film so dumb, that it perplexes him how non-dumb people (in other words, bright and discerning people) can like it.

Some people are just looking for offense. Everything isn't all about them. Go figure.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I don't know. I don't know that I agree with your take. I mean, we're talking about explosives that apparently don't explode until armed. Great. Are they supposed to magically arm themselves in the split second before they hit a target? You'd have folks decrying that too. There are a million takes either way.
Bombs and torpedoes have been able to self arm during descent at least as far back as WWII, and could be set to different delay rates based on the plane's altitude. Surely the tech of the SW galaxy could manage the same.

...Six bombers, come flying in, if each came from six different directions, you'd reduced you incoming fire by nearly 83% if the enemy aims for each bomber equally. Instead, they were one big, easy target. They just has to hit ONE ship, and let the armed bombs do the rest.

Seriously.

People want to challenge that?

That wasnt wholly distracting? How can people still not see it?

Once again, not trying to be mean, but at what point do you sigh and realize it was dumb?

Sorry Inquisitor, it isnt.

I just explained why, based on probablity and the result shown in the film. Close formation when you have waves of many bombers *is* a legit tactic, not when you have six.

Also, in space you can come in from anywhere vs on Earth you come in from where you got fuel and pass your target en route to fuel or landing...
The SW films have employed WWII style air tactics since the battle of Yavin. Sure it doesn't make sense in space but it looks so damn cool. That's why the bomber scene is the only part of TLJ that I actually liked, it reminded me of several ols WWII bomber movies and was the only part of the film that felt like real SW to me. I hated TLJ overall, but I aim my criticism at the parts that don't work not what does.

As for Poe making a bad decision for the purpose of story, well history is full of bad decisions made in the heat of battle, so it's at least believable. That's why I also don't have too much of a problem with Poe's crank call to Hux. If you know anything about "hot shot" pilots you'll see that Poe's sense of humor was fitting in this case. Lots of similar communications have been made during real combat. Whether it belongs in a SW film is debatable, but it at least felt real to me.

BB8's thousand fingers fixing the ship bit? That was dumb, this ain't a Tex Avery cartoon.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The bombing run is one of those things I like to attribute to a house of cards. There's movies I like that have a lot of really dumb stuff in them-- like most of the X-Men movies. I'm just so happy X-Men movies exist I end up forgiving a lot int he ones that can at least hold my attention and be fun.

I don't think the bombing sequence in TLJ is any more far-ftched or out of line with anything else we've seen in the saga. If we're going to start citing science, NONE of the space battles in SW are realistic. It';s one of those things like I'm saying above-- if you are swept up and having fun, you don't care about things like that. If you DON'T like what you are seeing though, the big stuff goes down easy, and the more you think about it, the more smaller things start to **** you off too.

Me personally, I am WAY more hung up on the Great Space OJ Chase stupidity than the bomb run.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The chase sequence/idea is my biggest beef as well. There was probably a more efficient way to get where they were going with the plot. Once you start introducing fuel economy (and trade taxation) to Star Wars you're gonna lose folks.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Bombs and torpedoes have had self arming abilities for ages, yes. However, the plane gets blown up, so does the bomb(s). If a bomber has 20 bombs on it and the plane blows, so do 20 bombs and if you're in tight formations, so do a number of other bombers. That said - in SW - there's no need to fly that tight. It actually makes a larger target. Knowing you have 200 bombs on board, you fly separated in case someone does get blown up so the others aren't wiped out in the process.

Seems as if the choice they went with in the ST is, yeah we have to have the original cast to gets butts in the seats, but we'll dump them to focus on the new crew and everyone will be happy. That was never going to work though, but it does seem to have been the plan.I think they've even said they needed to get the old guard to step aside for the new. In theory, it's all well and good, but you don't do it by destroying the old - which is the choice they seemed to have made.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

robn1, this isn't meant to be argumentative to you; I'm just using something you wrote to try and make a point.

That's why I also don't have too much of a problem with Poe's crank call to Hux. If you know anything about "hot shot" pilots you'll see that Poe's sense of humor was fitting in this case. Lots of similar communications have been made during real combat.

I've nothing to dispute that; I could certainly see it taking place among pilots and "worker bee" sorts, perhaps to keep themselves from going mad, by finding a sort of perverse camaraderie with the enemy as those "just doing their jobs in the bowels of Hell". Or something.

But the deal with Hux and Poe would be akin to an exchange between an allied pilot and a high-ranking Nazi officer. Poe himself hadn't been insulated from atrocities as a pilot, he was a part of at least one outright bit of extermination, on the ground. The thing with the Galactic Empire is that especially once you knew who Vader really was, you knew there was once a "good man gone astray" that was a part of all of it, and so there was always (at least for me), a bit of moral ambiguity complicating things.

With the First Order, we've not been given that bit of ambiguity. We touched on it in a big way with Ben in TFA, but his pursuits were somewhat independent from the FO. They were just exploiting one another for their own interests, and Ben finally got to belong to something of consequence. But we're left to assume that the FO itself is just about acquiring power at the expense of everything else, just because. To me, the basic narrative was presented in a much more black and white fashion than the PT/OT, with Ben (and perhaps Rey) the grey power-shifting character(s). TLJ sent those two characters back to their opposing corners, in my opinion, which was disappointing beyond belief, but I'm now digressing big time...

My point is that if we're supposed to believe the FO has the weight to be regarded as a legitimate adversary, then confrontational scenes need to have gravity. Gravity creates tension, eh? I know there are sorts that want examples of scenes that people took umbrage with in TLJ, and this was probably my biggie, because it came so early and set the tone for everything. For me, contemporary references/humor can be really distracting in an "otherworldly" film like this, and a prank call in the midst of war (and, say, Luke dusting off his shoulder), was eye-roll material. I knew I was in for a long night, I could feel it. Here we were with a new Star Wars movie, and we were in the midst of serious business with the FO fleet deployed and all the machinations of war at hand, and here was the audience...giggling.

It felt trivial. Did it push boundaries? Yep, it sure did. I'm sincerely envious of anyone who stayed tuned in beyond this moment; IIRC, within minute of this, the saber was flipped over the shoulder, and it became obvious that "unusually and/or unnecessarily provocative moments" were going to be the order of the day

Ultimately, it's just art. When someone goes to a museum and remarks they like this piece but not that piece, no one thinks much if it. I went through my phase of really needing others to share my perspective with these sorts of things (I admit SW has probably been too important to me at times, and I've written so many words about TLJ, I can't stand myself), but now it just saddens me to see others opinions dismissed simply because they aren't conveying their opinions within a sociology/art/filmmaking realm at a post-grad level. Sometimes we think things just suck :) And sometimes they don't want to discuss it, they're just using the forum as a journal of sorts (I confess to doing this). :)

And as a gesture of TLJ goodwill, let me say that really liked the TIE Silencer. I thought it mirrored the TIE/ln ---> TIE Interceptor evolution well, well still giving Ben a chance to put his unique design stamp on it, just as his grandfather did.

I still care, but the passion for all of it has been diminished, post-TFA; I have what I consider mine, and I hold dearly to it. I just hope Star Wars survives as something of consequence, because I would like future generations to enjoy it as much as I did.
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

A lone pilot gets a direct line to the General...

Seriously, you are digging yourself into a hole. And the general gets on the line *AND* puts up with it "hold please"?

Uhhh, no. No, not credible, not acceptable, just stupid. Slap you in the face stupid.

Defending the indefensible is the issue here.

Really, you *know* hot shot pilots that demand to speak to the peson in charge of the enemy Fleet, and they get their attention?
Happens all the time, right? Generals dont even have a enough time to plan strategies because of all the prank calls.
This is the absolutely ridiculous BS that makes people boycott and makes one-side, the competent side, the "honest side", know that the other side isnt being reasonable, or objective, they are just trying to find anyway to escape the cloud of stupid associated with TLJ. The insult is you trying so desperately to make something sooo brain-dead stupid, acceptable, plausible...heck@ you liked it.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I think people have their expectations set to way to high. These will never match up to the originals. It's impossible. Also I feel that many people are looking for reasons to hate the new films. So any little thing that may be "wrong" is targeted with is much hate as they can conjure. What happened to the days where people would try to come up with explanations for the hiccups in the last 6 films? Why did they do this? Because even with its faults Star Wars films are like family................you still love them.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I think people have their expectations set to way to high. These will never match up to the originals. It's impossible. Also I feel that many people are looking for reasons to hate the new films. So any little thing that may be "wrong" is targeted with is much hate as they can conjure. What happened to the days where people would try to come up with explanations for the hiccups in the last 6 films? Why did they do this? Because even with its faults Star Wars films are like family................you still love them.

Yet a lot of us don't love the new movies especially not TLJ, and not because we set our expectations to high but simply because the movies are are not that good. Not terrible Star Wars movies, just terrible movies period.

People love to hate on John Carter, but that movie was leagues above The Last Jedi in watch ability, people are in fact letting their love for Star Wars blind them, but it's not the people that have a problem with the new movies;)

I'm not looking for movies that match the originals, i'm looking for growth in Star Wars and new stories, not the same ones only with more diversity thrown in.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

No, its people excusing the dumb stuff. Claiming people who can see it have a problem.

We want is quality. No dumbed down pretty. If you agree this stuff is stupid, say it! Dont excuse it. Like a parentbthat says, "he's only six, and ten years later cries, 'I cant control him'".

Why so much resistance to smarter films?
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Yet a lot of us don't love the new movies especially not TLJ, and not because we set our expectations to high but simply because the movies are are not that good. Not terrible Star Wars movies, just terrible movies period.

People love to hate on John Carter, but that movie was leagues above The Last Jedi in watch ability, people are in fact letting their love for Star Wars blind them, but it's not the people that have a problem with the new movies;)

I'm not looking for movies that match the originals, i'm looking for growth in Star Wars and new stories, not the same ones only with more diversity thrown in.

I have to say. When I first saw TLJ I wasn't sure what to think about it. So much happened! But as I've watched it a couple of more times, and had time to mull things over in my head, I've definitely like the film. Is it my favorite film or Star Wars movie? No way. But I still like it, and I rate it higher than ATOC OR TPM. Though it rates lower than ROTS.
 
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