Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

Joek3rr said:

Actually George was only writer and director for 1,2,3, and 4. For 5, 6 he only wrote the story, with the screenplays and directing responsibilities going to other people.

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cboath said:

I know - but, Kirshner and Marquand were not give free reign to do whatever the hell they wanted either. They were given a script and told - direct this. Changes likely were made and guaranteed they had to be approved by George. Today, they seem to be turning everything over and there's no one for central approval of story. The story group should be setting the story and director's executing it. It should not be director's making up whatever they want to and the story group just massaging into the line so the it's somewhat coherent for the next section.

In broad strokes, a Trilogy is a single story with subplot that are broken up into three films. You shouldn't finish act II and have absolutely no clue what happens in act III. It's basic story structure. Yes, the OT skews that a bit in it's first part, but that was strictly because there was no guarantee they'd make more. They had the guarantee of ROTJ when working on ESB and the whole of the prequels were guaranteed before a scene was shot as is the case with the ST.

There's zero excuse to start the ST without a broad stroked layout of all three parts and it's clear there wasn't. It was you do part 1, this guy will do 2 based on your one this guy does three off his 2. No planning, no collaboration. And it's flat out the wrong way to go.

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Greenie said:

No, no, no.
You're making excuses based on how these characters have been re-written. Nothing from episode VII &VIII aligns with the events of episode VI.

Star wars is an archetypal heroes journey which culminated in ROTJ with a 'happily ever after' ending.
Han Solo was a selfish smuggler that changed his ways, he began to care about others more than himself and fell in love with a princess. His character arc was complete.
Luke did not fail to destroy the Death Star. He did not fail to save his friends. He returned to complete his training and he did not fail to save his father who did not fail to destroy the Emperor. Luke's actions saved the Galaxy and his character arc was complete.
Leia's character arc is even simpler. She was fighting political injustice as a key figure in the rebellion. Along the way she reluctantly fell in love. When the empire fell, her work was done and she was free to pursue love.
So, she uses the force to save herself? No. That's not Leia Organa. She would use the force to save everyone else in that moment.

Luke was dumped on the island because MA, JJA and LK didn't have enough talent to write a better story. RJ created the reason for him being there. Hiding like a coward.
And yeah, he attempted to murder his nephew. Or does using the force negate all responsibility of actions?

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Joek3rr said:

Luke's saved his friends? I assuming you are talking about ESB. He didn't save his friends. In fact Leia ends up saving him. All he does is cause more problems when he goes to Cloud City.

The problem with a happily ever after ending. Is this is Star WARS. You kinda need a war or conflict. That's kind of its thing.

And Luke was dumped on the island because that's what George suggested he would be. In fact TLJ used more of George's story treatments then TFA did. As someone put it. The idea of a down and out Luke in a self imposed exile was seed that was planted by George. JJ watered that seed, and Rian harvested it.

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Greenie said:

George planted the seed, JJ watered it, Rian poured weed killer on it!

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Greenie said:

No. I'm talking about the OT as one complete story. He leaves his training to help his friends and returns when they are safe. He may fail on Bespin but he succeeds on Tatooinee.

Agreed. It does require war and conflict but I still maintain, the OT character arcs were complete in ROTJ. The continuation of the story only serves to undo those arcs. And that's why bringing them back was a mistake even if it seemed like the ultimate fanboy fantasy.

George planted the seed, JJ watered it, Rian poured weed killer on it!

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Joek3rr said:

But the only reason he ends up having to go Tatooine is because of his messing up and going to Cloud City. If he'd stayed with Yoda and finished his training. Might the Force not provided a way for his friends to be saved? Much like his father, he let's his fear of loss control him. And maybe his temptations to use the Dark Side wouldn't not have been so strong?

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mattycsi said:

They were already humped before Luke got there.

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Joek3rr said:

The whole point of the end of ESB, is that Luke fails to trust in the Force. Leading to a brash decision made out of fear. He hasn't quite learned the lesson of "don't trust your eyes, they can decive you". He believes what he can see and feel. This is why Yoda tells him “Luminous beings are we…not this crude matter.” So he sees a vision which is only one of many outcomes, "always in motion, the future is", and he acts on what he sees. Actually it would be better to say that he reacts. A sort of knee jerk response.

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mattycsi said:

An i thought it was a love story between two droids!
Thats all obvious and news to no one.
My point still stands. The others were all captured before Luke got there. Han still would have ended up on Hutt's wall if Luke had stayed on Dagobah. Therefore, wait for it, they still would have had to go to Tattooine to rescue him. Ergo, his messing up has little to do with them having to go there, never mind "the only reason"!

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Joek3rr said:

You've removed the Force from equation. Could the Force have provided some other way for them to be saved? Perhaps even Solo might have been saved? After all, "all is as the Force wills it"

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mattycsi said:

Hahahahahahaha.
No.

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Joek3rr said:

And I've said the before, why do we think that Luke is the greatest Jedi? He fails every lesson, and ends becoming a Jedi school drop out. And he didn't attempt to murder his nephew. He was briefly tempted by the Dark Side to murder him. But it was gone in an instant. And besides if your going to be having Luke hide from the galaxy. Then something really really terrible has to have happened to him to shake him up that much.

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jhazard said:

Is not failure the greatest teacher, (according to Johnson's Yoda)? If Luke failed the greatest tests, persevered, and become a Jedi by Yoda's confirmation, he's done pretty well.

(I didnt see where he was ever manipulated by the dark side, regarding his impulse to take out young Ben. I don't even believe its implied, Luke certainly didnt mention it or allude to it. Is a jedi using or succumbing to the dark side any time they kill? If the dark side was involved, johnson did a poor job indicating that.)

Kylo turning, and destroying his temple is certainly terrible, but not beyond the scope terrible that Luke has dealt with previously (untold numbers perished when the death star was destroyed by his his hand - with the force guiding it - yet that didnt seem to have a negative effect on him).

I'm not suggesting Luke is incorruptible, but the reason given is not sufficient to take down his character the way Johnson did, it was weak.

Greatest Jedi? Maybe, maybe not. But certainly a great Jedi.
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More to the topic - geeks and gamers just put up a video with some intrtesting poll results regarding fans preferences in the current games (characters, world maps , etc). The results are intetesting and contradict a lot of the LFL media spin about mysognist, racistm toxic fans. In turn, they could show how out of touch KK is with the fans.

And i understand you csnt necessarily extrapolate these results across the entire fan base (i think the group size was like 12,000), but some of the results definitely show that at least some factions of the fans do not fall under the toxic label they want to apply.

Ill try to find the link., I'm not very good this tablet ...


https://youtu.be/jZMwU3igqjY

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Joek3rr said:

I agree Rian did a poor job at showing what was going on. But he was definitely trying to allude to the climax of ROTJ, focusing on Luke's saber and cybernetic hand.

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Axlotl said:

Star Wars isn't gonna ruin itself, you know!
Or is the script already written?
What color crayon did you use?

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Axlotl said:

You're not fooling anybody, Rian Johnson.
How do you have so much time to post in this forum?
Shouldn't you be writing the next Star Wars movie?
Star Wars isn't gonna ruin itself, you know!
Or is the script already written?
What color crayon did you use?

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