Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Out of curiosity, what did break the movie for you?

TLJ or TPM?

I think you raise a good point here, but I'd break it down further. I think a lot of the reaction against TLJ and TFA is people just on a gut level not liking it. The endless criticism of this or that aspect of the film is mostly just post hoc justifications for the gut feeling. Basically, an unconscious reaction looking for a conscious basis. In some cases, I think people's criticisms make sense and are valid. In a LOT of cases, I think people are perfectly happy to excuse something identical from a previous film that they liked, whereas they nitpick it to death in the newer films. I think that speaks more to their gut reaction than it does to the validity of their specific criticism.

"I didn't like it because XYZ."

"Did you like this other film?"

"Yes."

"But the other film had XYZ, too."

"Yes, but I liked the other film, so XYZ didn't matter."

So, really, XYZ isn't the issue. The issue is whether you did/didn't like the film at a baseline level. And that's fine. I get that not everyone likes the newer films or TLJ specifically. And I also think there are legitimate complaints that can be leveled against it and legitimate flaws in the film. I just don't think they're unique to TLJ (or TFA, for that matter) in many cases, and that they existed in the OT as well, but it's more that people just like the OT better that lets them ignore that stuff, whereas they just don't like the newer films, and therefore the thing they didn't mind in the old movie rubs them the wrong way in the new one.
Yep, spot on. And let me break that down further while linking it back to my original concept.
Most people are simply not invested in moviemaking enough to consciously explain what they didnt like. They, as you say made a decision on a gut-level, kind of viscerally that “it was a crap movie”. They won’t stary getting into pacing, flat camera angles or inappropriate timing of comedy but they feel the effect of those and just...well don’t like the movie. And in order to try and justify or explain their distaste only cite the obvious things like Jar-Jar.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

These movies are meant to make the most money. If fandom alone bought tickets SW would be dead? Are you kidding? I dont think youre getting what the essence of "fan" actually means. Star Wars is one of the few exceptions, that spans multiple generations, where everyone happens to be a fan. Well, they were when considering the OT. The reason we ARE seeing those reboots is to bank on the fans seeing the movies, and generating NEW fans to perpetuate the fandom because its a sure thing and thats what hollywood wants. Luckily people want to see good movies and be told good stories with elements they are familiar with. Thats why people hate TLJ so much.

Yes. The movies are for fans, and to get new fans, who spend more money, buy the toys, go to the cons etc. You need to measure the degree of "fan". To me, its anyone thats willing to pay money for it. Whether it be movie ticket, book, shirt, or a blu ray.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The Last Jedi

It really is a combination of things for me. Bear in mind I never ever got into fan theories or speculations on who's who, what's gonna happen, what's leaked, etc.
1. The tone. It's all over the place, certain elements are dead serious, grim and bleak, then some bits are like a really bad Saturday-morning cartoon show, and there's inappropriately timed the humour everywhere which just prevents me to take the film seriously and it gives the impression that the film can't take itself seriously either.
2. Ultimately nothing's happenning in the film. It was such a good opportunity to really subvert some expectations and go in its own direction, but it simply ended with an ill-equipped band of rebels against an evil tyrannical organization led by a guy clad in black. The movie's plot B with the codebreaker and Monte Carlo planet ultimately led to nothing. There's also not much left for me to look forward in Ep9. Most of the storylines or mysteries are finished and hardly any new ones were opened to take further. I know, there are new aspects to some of the characters and there's the question of how good a Supreme Leader will Kylo turn out but there's not much else really. Which brings me to:
3. Many things from TFA were just dropped instead of developing them further and making an interesting new direction. For the record, I'm okay with Rey not being anyone's relative and Snoke being Snoke. I just feel the movie didn't really offer anything else to take up instead of those. Finn's injury could have been a thing. Knights of Ren could have been a thing. Finishing Kylo Ren's training could have been a thing. And most of all, a scene between Leia and Kylo should have been a must after he killed Han.
4. I found the movie to be confused in what message it wanted to convey (and consequently confused in its character's motivations).
Many here state that Luke for example is in a state which makes sense perfectly. There's tons of discussion by the filmmakers as well explaining why Luke is the way he is. So that we can understand. Only that in the end the movie says that he's wrong, the Jedi do need to carry on and the galaxy does need the hero. Oh wait, everyone knew that in the first 4 minutes of the movie.
Or Rose's little speech about sacrifice. But a few minutes before Holdo sacraficed herself...? And as the big climax Luke also sacraficed himself?
Or when Kylo also states, let the past die, they need to forge their own path. Again, this was brought by many as an allegory for the franchise. Except that they don't, because it's back to square one and status quo by the end of the movie.
Or when Luke wanted to burn down the books. Then he freaked out when Yoda burned down the books. Then they understood that it's not about the books so it's okay that they burn. Oh wait, Rey ended up taking the books so they're not burned. Didn't they just establish that the books are not important?
That force-projection climax was very confused to me as well, but it's been discussed at length really.

On top of that there are other bits like really odd editing choices, a fight that I found badly coreographed (no, not like the "Rey's awful skills" topic style), and the slow space chase was a really contrived plot device that could have been really easily fixed.
I really wasn't surprised when the shooting script turned out to be the first draft, because it feels like one. There are ideas and elements that like, but they're either not developed and polished properly or get lost in the rest which doesn't work for me.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

People wantes to like tlj.

People wanted more good Star Wars. This thread is 70 pages of why folks didnt like it.

This is about fans who felt betrayed. "Give us a good movie, we'll buy your toys, make costumes, run around going, "pew pew!"

Instead we got a director who put silly twist in every scene. They have been mentioned repeatedly, and the folks who liked the movie disregard it. Disney has made sig ificant changes due to the fans being vocal about the betrayal. TFA showed up like an old friend. Fun, laughs, excitement. TLJ is that friend daring you to abandon them.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

It really is a combination of things for me. Bear in mind I never ever got into fan theories or speculations on who's who, what's gonna happen, what's leaked, etc.
1. The tone. It's all over the place, certain elements are dead serious, grim and bleak, then some bits are like a really bad Saturday-morning cartoon show, and there's inappropriately timed the humour everywhere which just prevents me to take the film seriously and it gives the impression that the film can't take itself seriously either.
2. Ultimately nothing's happenning in the film. It was such a good opportunity to really subvert some expectations and go in its own direction, but it simply ended with an ill-equipped band of rebels against an evil tyrannical organization led by a guy clad in black. The movie's plot B with the codebreaker and Monte Carlo planet ultimately led to nothing. There's also not much left for me to look forward in Ep9. Most of the storylines or mysteries are finished and hardly any new ones were opened to take further. I know, there are new aspects to some of the characters and there's the question of how good a Supreme Leader will Kylo turn out but there's not much else really. Which brings me to:
3. Many things from TFA were just dropped instead of developing them further and making an interesting new direction. For the record, I'm okay with Rey not being anyone's relative and Snoke being Snoke. I just feel the movie didn't really offer anything else to take up instead of those. Finn's injury could have been a thing. Knights of Ren could have been a thing. Finishing Kylo Ren's training could have been a thing. And most of all, a scene between Leia and Kylo should have been a must after he killed Han.
4. I found the movie to be confused in what message it wanted to convey (and consequently confused in its character's motivations).
Many here state that Luke for example is in a state which makes sense perfectly. There's tons of discussion by the filmmakers as well explaining why Luke is the way he is. So that we can understand. Only that in the end the movie says that he's wrong, the Jedi do need to carry on and the galaxy does need the hero. Oh wait, everyone knew that in the first 4 minutes of the movie.
Or Rose's little speech about sacrifice. But a few minutes before Holdo sacraficed herself...? And as the big climax Luke also sacraficed himself?
Or when Kylo also states, let the past die, they need to forge their own path. Again, this was brought by many as an allegory for the franchise. Except that they don't, because it's back to square one and status quo by the end of the movie.
Or when Luke wanted to burn down the books. Then he freaked out when Yoda burned down the books. Then they understood that it's not about the books so it's okay that they burn. Oh wait, Rey ended up taking the books so they're not burned. Didn't they just establish that the books are not important?
That force-projection climax was very confused to me as well, but it's been discussed at length really.

On top of that there are other bits like really odd editing choices, a fight that I found badly coreographed (no, not like the "Rey's awful skills" topic style), and the slow space chase was a really contrived plot device that could have been really easily fixed.
I really wasn't surprised when the shooting script turned out to be the first draft, because it feels like one. There are ideas and elements that like, but they're either not developed and polished properly or get lost in the rest which doesn't work for me.

I agree with all of your points. That's why it's lower down on my Star Wars film ranking list. The movies biggest problem is, that it feels like one guy wrote it by himself, with a time crunch to boot. Which is what happened. Rian wrote the whole thing by himself, whereas all the others have had multiple writers, and numerous rewrites. If watch the Director and the Jedi, many times Rian looks worn out completely. Kinda reminds of Peter Jackson with The Hobbit films.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

People wantes to like tlj.

People wanted more good Star Wars. This thread is 70 pages of why folks didnt like it.

This is about fans who felt betrayed. "Give us a good movie, we'll buy your toys, make costumes, run around going, "pew pew!"

Instead we got a director who put silly twist in every scene. They have been mentioned repeatedly, and the folks who liked the movie disregard it. Disney has made sig ificant changes due to the fans being vocal about the betrayal. TFA showed up like an old friend. Fun, laughs, excitement. TLJ is that friend daring you to abandon them.

TFA goal was to bring back old fans, particularly those soured on the Prequels. And create a new generation of fans. TLJ tried to do things differently, shake it up a bit. So it couldn't be accused of being a remake.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this. I think this hate TLJ is getting, doesn't come from the movie. I'm really beginning to think that the hate for TLJ is merely a symptom. To me it's clear, that ever since Lucasfilm was sold to Disney, fans have started hating. So any little thing that seems to be out of place, and the fans rip it to shreds.

Not for me. I was totally on board with the Disney buy-out. Loved TFA and Rogue One. Then came TLJ. Hated it. Not only is it a bad film, but it ruins TFA for me. No reason to rewatch that knowing where those characters go. So much set up, so little pay-off.

I’ve boxed up all of the TFA Hot Toys figures I bought. Don’t need them displayed anymore. (Hit me up if you want a good deal on them [emoji6])

I had the one-sheets framed on either side of my TV. Was gonna get Episode 9 and frame it as well. These are now leaning up against the wall in my garage. Replaced with the Avengers posters.

Oh well. Saves me a ton of money on merch! And I didn’t see Solo. I won’t. Won’t see 9 either. Have fun with ****ty star wars everyone!


https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/8zm8jw/regarding_the_lucasfilm_story_group/
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Not for me. I was totally on board with the Disney buy-out. Loved TFA and Rogue One. Then came TLJ. Hated it. Not only is it a bad film, but it ruins TFA for me. No reason to rewatch that knowing where those characters go. So much set up, so little pay-off.

I’ve boxed up all of the TFA Hot Toys figures I bought. Don’t need them displayed anymore. (Hit me up if you want a good deal on them [emoji6])

I had the one-sheets framed on either side of my TV. Was gonna get Episode 9 and frame it as well. These are now leaning up against the wall in my garage. Replaced with the Avengers posters.

Oh well. Saves me a ton of money on merch! And I didn’t see Solo. I won’t. Won’t see 9 either. Have fun with ****ty star wars everyone!


https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/8zm8jw/regarding_the_lucasfilm_story_group/

I'm really sorry for you. But TLJ isn't as bad as you'd remember. Its not the best movie, but not the worst.

And you really missed out on a very fun film with Solo.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Anymore stupid then the Empires biggest weapon have a one shot kill hole?(yes, rogue one explained this, but much later on) Seriously? The rebel's have fly down a long trench for such a long distance? Huh? Why does the Empire attack with really ungainly walking machines? And the armor on the AT-AT magically become ineffectual when it falls down? What!? Or a bunch of teddy could defeat the best Stormtroopers? *facepalm* The Gungans have shield that can stop everything, but the droids can still walk through? How convenient. The Stormtroopers can't hit squat!..........

Star Wars is full of "stupid" stuff. But it's fun and we love it, so we come up with crazy explanations. Star Wars is like family, we love it even though it has faults.

If I was crew in one of those bombers I would welcome riding a speederbike against that giant Dorito ship equipped only with a passenger Ewok with a rock. It would have made as much sense! ;)
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I am at best a casual Star Wars fan. I love the hell out of the first one and Rogue One, the rest I'm kinda 'Okay, that was a fun ride', (or not, in the prequels). I'm in no way a member of the #Not my Luke Skywalker crowd and I consider the hysterical demonisation of Rian Johnson pretty juvenile, tbh. So all in all, I'm not 'invested'

I consider TLJ to be half a decent if not outstanding entry and half an utterly awful one. I had no problem with any of the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff. I think it is totally believable that Luke turned out like that, for reasons spelled out in other posts in this thread. I liked that Rey's parents were nobodies and Snokes demise. That confounding of expectations worked gangbusters for me. I care not a jot about space bombers or hyperspace rams.

Literally everything else in the movie was a hot mess. The pacing and structure were downright awful. The slow space-chase was tedious and full of improbabilities, the Casino planet downright mystifying, Poe and Finn were utterly wasted, Rose was unnecessary, the mutiny poorly plotted and realised, both sides were portrayed as incompetant, and the Leia in space scene astonishingly badly realised. I realise that Johnson was trying to show that failure is part of the experience of growing, but the clumsiness and outright cack-handed realisation of these themes should have been nixed at a conceptual level.

To me, these two mix-matched halves kind of cancel each other out and left me with a kind of 'nothing-y' feeling. A really bizarre fail.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I agree with all of your points. That's why it's lower down on my Star Wars film ranking list. The movies biggest problem is, that it feels like one guy wrote it by himself, with a time crunch to boot. Which is what happened. Rian wrote the whole thing by himself, whereas all the others have had multiple writers, and numerous rewrites. If watch the Director and the Jedi, many times Rian looks worn out completely. Kinda reminds of Peter Jackson with The Hobbit films.
Yea I get the same vibe, just really don’t get how it turned out that way. JJ apparently had some outlines for the other two episodes that were thrown out and nowhere did anyone say, let me give you some notes on that script, man. Denis Villeneuve is in preproduction of Dune and the script is currently going through the fourth revision. Strange business that moviemaking is...
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I agree with all of your points. That's why it's lower down on my Star Wars film ranking list. The movies biggest problem is, that it feels like one guy wrote it by himself, with a time crunch to boot. Which is what happened. Rian wrote the whole thing by himself, whereas all the others have had multiple writers, and numerous rewrites. If watch the Director and the Jedi, many times Rian looks worn out completely. Kinda reminds of Peter Jackson with The Hobbit films.
Actually, while we’re at it, what were the things in the movie that made you give these points a pass? If we agree on these being issues there must be something there that we perceived differently and made the film enjoyable to you.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Actually, while we’re at it, what were the things in the movie that made you give these points a pass? If we agree on these being issues there must be something there that we perceived differently and made the film enjoyable to you.

I liked the story. I love the unexpected. After TFA I wasn't expecting them to take big risks. And I found myself constantly saying "didn't see that coming!". But it took me watching it 4 times to figure out everyones motivations, and to find answers for questions like. Why doesn't Poe like Holdo? What is Rose's purpose? Why the whole Canto Bight sequence?

The answers for those questions being.(mind you this is just my opinion) Poe sees Holdo as bit as a rival, you see him getting ready to stand up when they announce who's taking Leia's place. And Rose is there to be an opposite to DJ, both of them playing a tug-of-war for Finn. And finally the Canto Bight stuff, which didn't go anywhere, and ended up with them failing, and getting captured.

I pondered this one awhile, then I remembered Yoda's words "The greatest teacher, failure is". And I realized that the whole film is about failure. Nearly every character has a goal they want, and nearly everyone fails. Luke fails 4 times. Rey fails to turn Ben. Ben fails to turn Rey. Poe's failure leads to his demotion, and his attempted mutiny, which also fails. Finn and Rose fail to find the Code Breaker. And fail to shut down the tracker. Holdo's plan fails, leading her to ram her ship dying in the process. So I believe the film is about failing and what kind of lessons are learned by failing. But things aren't very clear. As I said it took me 4 times to figure this stuff out.

So, all in all, I still like the movie. It rates higher then ATOC for me. But just barely.


EDIT Also the fact that this film has the most George Lucas influences, helps give me a soft spot for it:D http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/...ucas-episode-vii-outline-became-the-last-jedi
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

starts with Luke releasing the lightsaber as per TLJ with a shocked look on his face "we have much to do".......
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Did anyone see this interview with Kennedy? Very interesting.

 
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