Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Still doesn't justify killing a man that you are not actively fighting. There is a very very fine line between a lawful justified killing. I'm going to try to quote Gandalf here. "Who's to say who should live and die. Many have died who deserved to lived. And many have lived that deserved to die" Yeah I know I butchered that :D

It's still a matter of taking justice into your hands.

And the outcome proved our point. You ignore that a guy can choke you with his mind or fire lightning from his hands. THAT is the insincerity I am talking about
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Now you are just dodging...

Hyperspace missiles not commonplace. Viewers needed to get answers elsewhere, Lazy writing and storytelling. Used in TFA. Energy debt. Inconsistencies, etc..

You want us to buy your explanations while you refuse to acknowledge ours. Moreover, we cited the holes in your explanations.

Hyperspace missiles wouldn't work. They would be traveling in hyperspace they would have to drop out into realspace. In order to do anything. And if I recall the Falcon is able to breach the Starkiller's shields because of the refresh rate or something like that.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

If the jedi can't use their own judgement to eliminate an obvious threat, then what are the jedi for?
I mean, why do they even exist? What do they do? What is their purpose?

Again where do you draw the line? And if Republic laws are like USA laws, it would have been illegal. In that situation though Anakin was correct, he needed to stand trial.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Hyperspace missiles wouldn't work. They would be traveling in hyperspace they would have to drop out into realspace. In order to do anything..

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"


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Again where do you draw the line? And if Republic laws are like USA laws, it would have been illegal. In that situation though Anakin was correct, he needed to stand trial.

You didn't answer my question.
What are the jedi for?
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Hyperspace missiles wouldn't work. They would be traveling in hyperspace they would have to drop out into realspace. In order to do anything. And if I recall the Falcon is able to breach the Starkiller's shields because of the refresh rate or something like that.


The falcon breached the shields because they came out of hyperspace INSIDE the shield perimeter. Have missiles that come out of hyperspace inside of shields.

Nope, not tried in thousands of years is okies with you? Seriously. No experimental shields required.

So, you didn't get that, but the Raddus tactic works for you? I am not trying to be mean, but now you are *vague* on the more plausible concept?

It is a gross inconsistency.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"


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You didn't answer my question.
What are the jedi for?

"The Jedi were guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, before the Dark Times, before the Empire."

Let's look at it this way. What if a police officer got in a gun fight with a known serial murderer. And suddenly the perp decides to "surrender". The officer decides that the perp is faking it, and shoots him. How would that end? At minimum the officer would loose his badge.
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

You mean that fact she's takes a trip to the Dark Side?


I’m referring to your - ‘ raising your lightsaber back to cut a cowering person in half speaks volumes ‘ - statement ... ala Rey attacking Luke .
Will her character going forward be forever tipping her toe in the Darkside , or do you think future writers will be more sensitive to how people view her ( as a role model in some circles ) than the one hack has treated others ?


Ged
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"


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You didn't answer my question.
What are the jedi for?


Sith would just have to approach jedi and claim they come in peace, then zap em with lightning, choke them, anything.
Oh look! Another Jedi fell for it!

If the jedi don't fall for it, you get to claim they are flirting with the dark side. Seriously.

That's why I love that scene from Spaceballs, "because good is dumb."
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I’m referring to your - ‘ raising your lightsaber back to cut a cowering person in half speaks volumes ‘ - statement ... ala Rey attacking Luke .
Will her character going forward be forever tipping her toe in the Darkside , or do you think future writers will be more sensitive to how people view her ( as a role model in some circles ) than the one hack has treated others ?


Ged

Oh yeah Rey was definitely teasing the Dark Side there. I'd hope that they show her struggling with it. But this is J.J. Abrams we're talking about. He's not a big risk taker. Heck riskiest thing he's done is kill Han.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

"The Jedi were guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, before the Dark Times, before the Empire."

Let's look at it this way. What if a police officer got in a gun fight with a known serial murderer. And suddenly the perp decides to "surrender". The officer decides that the perp is faking it, and shoots him. How would that end? At minimum the officer would loose his badge.

So the jedi are policemen?
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Sorry folks, but this looks like a Friday trolling. Knows all the extra tidbits of TLJ, embraces them, but anything else is questionable.

West End Games 30th anniversary reprint is here, gonna go roll up a Wookie.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Peacekeepers is what Windu says. The question is, does a Jedi operate outside of the law? Or within the boundaries of the law?

You tell me, man. I'm trying to understand your definition of a jedi. :lol
Maybe those are questions you should be asking yourself, because it sounds like you don't know what a jedi is.

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They are monks, a religious organization

So, which is it?
Are they peacekeepers, or are they religious monks?
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

But it did handle it perfectly. Literally the biggest complaint is that the Luke in the movie isn't the same as the Luke in the EU. And the story was continued. Read The Art of The Force Awakens, you'll see that things like a down and out Luke were there from the very beginning. In fact George pitched the idea. If anything going of off the movies alone, TLJ is the fairly logical continuation of the story.

I don't think it's exactly that "Luke isn't the same as in the EU," but rather that "Luke isn't the same as he was at the end of ROTJ, and I had a different vision of how he'd behave." And that's an accurate statement. I don't think anyone can credibly claim that Luke is unchanged from who he was at the end of ROTJ. At the end of ROTJ, Luke is the heroic victor who has, through his own self sacrifice, redeemed his father and contributed to the death of the Emperor and the destruction of the Sith. He's been tempted by the Dark Side, and has overcome his temptation to give in to hate, and he's reunited, triumphant, with his friends and family. He's...rather different in TFA and TLJ.

First, I think it's worth noting that TFA already establishes that the Luke you're going to see is not the Luke of old, simply in terms of the fact that he has disappeared and hidden himself away. Right from the opening crawl, Luke is "different" from the character we saw at the end of ROTJ. TLJ may have really brought that point home, but it was strongly implied by the events of TFA that Luke was already going to be pretty different.

That said, I think that the Luke we know as a character, as a person, is consistent with the Luke we find out about in TLJ. I've touched on this before, but in ESB it's established that Luke is very, very focused on his visions of the future, and that he is prone to rash behavior, like abandoning his training to save his friends because he assumes they'll die, or flipping out on Vader when Vader suggests he'll corrupt Leia. If you can accept that as part of Luke's personality -- flaws that continue to exist even if he's confronted and overcome them in the past (arguably, though, he didn't overcome them in ESB...), then Luke's actions in confronting Ben at the Jedi Academy make sense. Once you accept that turning point in the story, then the rest of the events flow pretty easily, at least with respect to the heroes of the OT. Ben gives into the darkness and destroys the Academy, Leia retreats into her work, Han and Chewie head back to their smuggler lifestyle, and Luke goes to Ach-To to await his own demise and ponder his great failures. That moment where Luke ignites his sabre and Ben responds is arguably THE turning point between the OT era and the ST era, and it arguably sets the stage for the drama of the ST era. And the A-to-B-to-C of it all flows. It makes sense that Ben would then turn to Snoke (who had already begun influencing him). It makes sense that the OT heroes would be crushed by this moment and would just go back to their familiar roles, with Luke feeling the worst of them and hiding himself away from the galaxy as a whole. It's radically different from the people we saw at the end of ROTJ, but the moment between Luke and Ben, and the fallout from it support the end result.

What isn't supported, however, is the tonal difference from the end of ROTJ to pretty much all of the ST. ROTJ ends the way most fairy tales do. There's a strongly implied "Happily ever after" vibe. But any answer to the question "And then what happened?" after a "happily ever after" ending is either going to take one of two forms: (1) "Nothing. They lived happily until they grew old and died," or (2) "It turns out they DIDN'T live happily, but that's a story for another day." For me, at least, once I knew that Disney/LFL was set on bringing back the OT characters, I knew that "happily ever after" wouldn't survive. It couldn't. You can't have the OT characters get their happy ending AND include them in a new story full of dramatic conflict. But even with that in mind, the ST feels like a serious shift from ROTJ. Compared to, say, ROTS, the end of one trilogy does NOT feed into the next trilogy. And really, there was no way around that. Either you hurl the story far enough into the future that you preserve the OT heroes "happy ending" and triumphs, or you destroy that happy ending and make their triumph short-lived by bringing them back and telling the story of a new war across the stars. Moreover, TFA throws you right into the middle of things, and its opening crawl really doesn't do a ton to explain how things went from the end of ROTJ to the current state of affairs. Even if they told you in a brief bit of exposition, it still wouldn't jive emotionally, because, again, ROTJ ends with a "happily ever after" vibe, and everything that follows is anything but.

Ok, so, probably a lot of fans going into the sequel trilogy understood all of that, and still were frustrated by how Luke behaved. Why? I think that's because they were primed by past examples to assume that the new films would play out in accordance with some kind of established formula (even though we don't really have a formula). I think they were expecting that Luke would step into the "Obi-Wan" role, where he'd still clearly be a hero, but would be primarily training the new hero(es) and would then likely die in some act of valiant self-sacrifice. You know, just like Obi-Wan! He'd also have a similar "tone" to him. He'd be somewhat reluctant to fight, but would be resolved to help as soon as he understood what had to be done, without any real hesitation. You know, just like Obi-Wan! The thing is, I think Luke is like Obi-Wan in terms of his relative position in the films, but not in terms of his demeanor. Obi-Wan was hesitant at first to help but stepped up anyway. Luke is extremely reluctant, but does offer Rey some advice, and then helps the Resistance at the 11th hour. Obi-Wan has an act of self-sacrifice that indirectly saves the Rebellion by buying Luke and co. time to escape the Death Star. Luke has a final act of self-sacrifice where he duels Ben, makes him look like a chump, and then >poof< disappears otherwise apparently unscathed, which now inspires future generations to stand against the darkness (based on the coda with the stable boy). Obi-Wan trains Luke -- albeit briefly. Luke teaches Rey -- albeit briefly. The main difference is in their demeanor. Obi-Wan is willing to help and kind towards Luke. Luke is reluctant and crotchety towards Rey.

Anyway, I don't think that the depiction of Luke in TLJ is an insult to the fans in the slightest, nor is it a betrayal of the character. Rather, I think it's a marked difference from fans' expectations going in, and that they were probably expecting a character who had the same demeanor as Obi-Wan. Imagine if, for example, Luke was simply...not crotchety, but rather melancholy and afraid to train another apprentice, then reluctantly helped Rey until she -- much like Luke before her -- impulsively went to confront Ben. Would fans be as bent out of shape? I'd bet not. I think it's precisely the "Get off my lawn!" nature of Luke's character that most bothers people. Had he been more solemn, more stoic, less bitter and more saddened at his own failures, I think people would probably have been more accepting ofboth his decisions and his reluctance to train Rey.

Maybe that would've been the better choice, but at least for me, I don't mind that the film went in a different direction. I also don't know that it would have been enough for all fans, but that's as may be, and is purely speculation on my part.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Both. They are worshipers, studiers, followers, and practitioners of the Light Side of the Force. And they have been given the position to enforce the law. Though I don't think it's been stated what their relationship is to the Republic laws.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I don't think it's exactly that "Luke isn't the same as in the EU," but rather that "Luke isn't the same as he was at the end of ROTJ, and I had a different vision of how he'd behave." And that's an accurate statement. I don't think anyone can credibly claim that Luke is unchanged from who he was at the end of ROTJ. At the end of ROTJ, Luke is the heroic victor who has, through his own self sacrifice, redeemed his father and contributed to the death of the Emperor and the destruction of the Sith. He's been tempted by the Dark Side, and has overcome his temptation to give in to hate, and he's reunited, triumphant, with his friends and family. He's...rather different in TFA and TLJ.

First, I think it's worth noting that TFA already establishes that the Luke you're going to see is not the Luke of old, simply in terms of the fact that he has disappeared and hidden himself away. Right from the opening crawl, Luke is "different" from the character we saw at the end of ROTJ. TLJ may have really brought that point home, but it was strongly implied by the events of TFA that Luke was already going to be pretty different.

That said, I think that the Luke we know as a character, as a person, is consistent with the Luke we find out about in TLJ. I've touched on this before, but in ESB it's established that Luke is very, very focused on his visions of the future, and that he is prone to rash behavior, like abandoning his training to save his friends because he assumes they'll die, or flipping out on Vader when Vader suggests he'll corrupt Leia. If you can accept that as part of Luke's personality -- flaws that continue to exist even if he's confronted and overcome them in the past (arguably, though, he didn't overcome them in ESB...), then Luke's actions in confronting Ben at the Jedi Academy make sense. Once you accept that turning point in the story, then the rest of the events flow pretty easily, at least with respect to the heroes of the OT. Ben gives into the darkness and destroys the Academy, Leia retreats into her work, Han and Chewie head back to their smuggler lifestyle, and Luke goes to Ach-To to await his own demise and ponder his great failures. That moment where Luke ignites his sabre and Ben responds is arguably THE turning point between the OT era and the ST era, and it arguably sets the stage for the drama of the ST era. And the A-to-B-to-C of it all flows. It makes sense that Ben would then turn to Snoke (who had already begun influencing him). It makes sense that the OT heroes would be crushed by this moment and would just go back to their familiar roles, with Luke feeling the worst of them and hiding himself away from the galaxy as a whole. It's radically different from the people we saw at the end of ROTJ, but the moment between Luke and Ben, and the fallout from it support the end result.

What isn't supported, however, is the tonal difference from the end of ROTJ to pretty much all of the ST. ROTJ ends the way most fairy tales do. There's a strongly implied "Happily ever after" vibe. But any answer to the question "And then what happened?" after a "happily ever after" ending is either going to take one of two forms: (1) "Nothing. They lived happily until they grew old and died," or (2) "It turns out they DIDN'T live happily, but that's a story for another day." For me, at least, once I knew that Disney/LFL was set on bringing back the OT characters, I knew that "happily ever after" wouldn't survive. It couldn't. You can't have the OT characters get their happy ending AND include them in a new story full of dramatic conflict. But even with that in mind, the ST feels like a serious shift from ROTJ. Compared to, say, ROTS, the end of one trilogy does NOT feed into the next trilogy. And really, there was no way around that. Either you hurl the story far enough into the future that you preserve the OT heroes "happy ending" and triumphs, or you destroy that happy ending and make their triumph short-lived by bringing them back and telling the story of a new war across the stars. Moreover, TFA throws you right into the middle of things, and its opening crawl really doesn't do a ton to explain how things went from the end of ROTJ to the current state of affairs. Even if they told you in a brief bit of exposition, it still wouldn't jive emotionally, because, again, ROTJ ends with a "happily ever after" vibe, and everything that follows is anything but.

Ok, so, probably a lot of fans going into the sequel trilogy understood all of that, and still were frustrated by how Luke behaved. Why? I think that's because they were primed by past examples to assume that the new films would play out in accordance with some kind of established formula (even though we don't really have a formula). I think they were expecting that Luke would step into the "Obi-Wan" role, where he'd still clearly be a hero, but would be primarily training the new hero(es) and would then likely die in some act of valiant self-sacrifice. You know, just like Obi-Wan! He'd also have a similar "tone" to him. He'd be somewhat reluctant to fight, but would be resolved to help as soon as he understood what had to be done, without any real hesitation. You know, just like Obi-Wan! The thing is, I think Luke is like Obi-Wan in terms of his relative position in the films, but not in terms of his demeanor. Obi-Wan was hesitant at first to help but stepped up anyway. Luke is extremely reluctant, but does offer Rey some advice, and then helps the Resistance at the 11th hour. Obi-Wan has an act of self-sacrifice that indirectly saves the Rebellion by buying Luke and co. time to escape the Death Star. Luke has a final act of self-sacrifice where he duels Ben, makes him look like a chump, and then >poof< disappears otherwise apparently unscathed, which now inspires future generations to stand against the darkness (based on the coda with the stable boy). Obi-Wan trains Luke -- albeit briefly. Luke teaches Rey -- albeit briefly. The main difference is in their demeanor. Obi-Wan is willing to help and kind towards Luke. Luke is reluctant and crotchety towards Rey.

Anyway, I don't think that the depiction of Luke in TLJ is an insult to the fans in the slightest, nor is it a betrayal of the character. Rather, I think it's a marked difference from fans' expectations going in, and that they were probably expecting a character who had the same demeanor as Obi-Wan. Imagine if, for example, Luke was simply...not crotchety, but rather melancholy and afraid to train another apprentice, then reluctantly helped Rey until she -- much like Luke before her -- impulsively went to confront Ben. Would fans be as bent out of shape? I'd bet not. I think it's precisely the "Get off my lawn!" nature of Luke's character that most bothers people. Had he been more solemn, more stoic, less bitter and more saddened at his own failures, I think people would probably have been more accepting ofboth his decisions and his reluctance to train Rey.

Maybe that would've been the better choice, but at least for me, I don't mind that the film went in a different direction. I also don't know that it would have been enough for all fans, but that's as may be, and is purely speculation on my part.

You sir, are a much more eloquent writer then I.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

My feeling is that they handled Luke the way they did because they had no other idea how to handle him without it outshining the silly new cast. Well they made a poor choice apparently because people, including, Mark, didn’t agree with it.

Add that as just a drop in the ocean of other complaints about this film and that adds up to a lot of unhappy galactic citizens. Agree with it or not, like it or not, it’s the actuality of the reaction to that film.

In a nut shell. The fact that Johnson was so desperate to make his mark in the big time and be the one to destroy Luke in his movie is also more than obvious to me.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

In a nut shell. The fact that Johnson was so desperate to make his mark in the big time and be the one to destroy Luke in his movie is also more than obvious to me.

You should really watch The Director and the Jedi. Rian agonized over how to do Luke. And when Mark raized his concerns, Rian began to doubt if he was doing the right thing. But he thought about it and decided that was indeed how he wanted Luke to be. And in the end, even Mark says that he's "Rian's camp". Trying to get Luke right for him was his biggest concern.
 
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