Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?
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Joek3rr
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Currently, on Atom, it gets 4.4 out of 5
16,289 gave it 5 stars
5876 gave it 4
2246 gave it 3
680 gave it 2
512 gave it 1
on Amazon, it's 3.6 out of 5
with 37% giving it 5
10% giving it 4
8% giving it 3
9% giving it 2
36% giving it 1
IMDB gives it a 7.2 with the majority at 21.6% giving it 8 stars
Currently, on Atom, it gets 4.4 out of 5
16,289 gave it 5 stars
5876 gave it 4
2246 gave it 3
680 gave it 2
512 gave it 1
on Amazon, it's 3.6 out of 5
with 37% giving it 5
10% giving it 4
8% giving it 3
9% giving it 2
36% giving it 1
IMDB gives it a 7.2 with the majority at 21.6% giving it 8 stars
Jagjaguwar
Sr Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
What is Atom, and how do they do polling? As we’ve discussed before, all these online polls are imperfect in different ways, but that breakdown by star ratings on Atom is the most positive view of TLJ I think I’ve seen anywhere. Aside from critics-only numbers like the Rotten Tomatoes critic meter.
I find the disparity between the 1 star ratings on Atom and the 1 star ratings on Amazon really interesting.
What is Atom, and how do they do polling? As we’ve discussed before, all these online polls are imperfect in different ways, but that breakdown by star ratings on Atom is the most positive view of TLJ I think I’ve seen anywhere. Aside from critics-only numbers like the Rotten Tomatoes critic meter.
I find the disparity between the 1 star ratings on Atom and the 1 star ratings on Amazon really interesting.
robn1
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Fans weren't split on the original, we all liked it. But we're split on the new. The fans who like the new would also like it if it was more true to the original, since they like the original as is, right? They can please us all, or they can split us up. And Ruin is on record saying he wants half of the audience to hate his films. That's an interesting technique for an original story, but not for expanding on someone else's work with a built in fan base.
Fans weren't split on the original, we all liked it. But we're split on the new. The fans who like the new would also like it if it was more true to the original, since they like the original as is, right? They can please us all, or they can split us up. And Ruin is on record saying he wants half of the audience to hate his films. That's an interesting technique for an original story, but not for expanding on someone else's work with a built in fan base.
Jagjaguwar
Sr Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Ah, I see, looks to be some sort of online ticket purchasing site like Fandango.
https://www.atomtickets.com/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi/206406
Very good point, robn1. Not only that, but there are probably a good number of fans who just love all things Star Wars, and will love any film that comes out, no matter what. Meanwhile I’m sure there are also some people who primarily loved TLJ because of the very same divisive aspects that others hated, but I’d tend to think they’re in the minority.
Ah, I see, looks to be some sort of online ticket purchasing site like Fandango.
https://www.atomtickets.com/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi/206406
Very good point, robn1. Not only that, but there are probably a good number of fans who just love all things Star Wars, and will love any film that comes out, no matter what. Meanwhile I’m sure there are also some people who primarily loved TLJ because of the very same divisive aspects that others hated, but I’d tend to think they’re in the minority.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Everything since has been splitting the fans. Some dislike the PT, some the ST. And while the OT is almost universally loved this isn't the case with some newer fans. Most of my friends prefer the PT and could take or leave the OT.
To be fair the original films made the fans. If you were among the group that got see the films for the first time. If you liked them you became a fan. If you didn't like them then you didn't become a fan. Or like my dad you watched the first movie, liked it and didn't watch the rest until begged him to. Hard to split a fandom that was just being formed.
Everything since has been splitting the fans. Some dislike the PT, some the ST. And while the OT is almost universally loved this isn't the case with some newer fans. Most of my friends prefer the PT and could take or leave the OT.
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Actually, I'm a huge fan of the originals, but I didn't want the sequels to just repeat the beats of the originals. I know generally how that goes in other franchises, and over time, the whole thing just starts to feel really stale. Oh, sure it's still entertaining, but it's just another variation on the formula, until the formula itself isn't really much fun anymore. I was really glad that TLJ seemed to really change things up, and -- unlike if we were just reiterating the OT -- I have NO idea where the story is headed next, and I'm really excited about that! Would I have been happy if it just aped the OT? Actually, probably not. I'd have been...you know...ok with it. I would've liked it better than the PT, probably, but I think I would've seen it as a wasted opportunity.
We can all unite in our disdain for the Ewok Adventure, though. And I have never met anyone who liked the novels Children of the Jedi or The Crystal Star.
Actually, I'm a huge fan of the originals, but I didn't want the sequels to just repeat the beats of the originals. I know generally how that goes in other franchises, and over time, the whole thing just starts to feel really stale. Oh, sure it's still entertaining, but it's just another variation on the formula, until the formula itself isn't really much fun anymore. I was really glad that TLJ seemed to really change things up, and -- unlike if we were just reiterating the OT -- I have NO idea where the story is headed next, and I'm really excited about that! Would I have been happy if it just aped the OT? Actually, probably not. I'd have been...you know...ok with it. I would've liked it better than the PT, probably, but I think I would've seen it as a wasted opportunity.
We can all unite in our disdain for the Ewok Adventure, though. And I have never met anyone who liked the novels Children of the Jedi or The Crystal Star.
Robinson
Well-Known Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Its been split since the mid to late 90's well before any of this female force gobbledygook came along.
Dontdissthefett
Well-Known Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
I thought as stated throughout this thread those who didn’t like TLJ were the “vocal minority” that Disney couldn’t care less about? Lol
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I thought as stated throughout this thread those who didn’t like TLJ were the “vocal minority” that Disney couldn’t care less about? Lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jaitea
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
But that's the thing, theres nothing original in TLJ,....it apes ESB & RotJ continuously, giving us the familiar, but switching in a different direction when you think you know how it played out the last time
After JJ's ANH homage with TFA, the worry that Episode 7 would be another remake,...it was
The only original film after SW (ANH) we have ever had is ESB.....every film apes those two,...including TLJ
J
But that's the thing, theres nothing original in TLJ,....it apes ESB & RotJ continuously, giving us the familiar, but switching in a different direction when you think you know how it played out the last time
After JJ's ANH homage with TFA, the worry that Episode 7 would be another remake,...it was
The only original film after SW (ANH) we have ever had is ESB.....every film apes those two,...including TLJ
J
Joek3rr
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Well 6 out of 8 times the Force is shown to manifest in a female form. The 5 Force priestess and the Daughter. The only male representations are the Father and the Son.
Well 6 out of 8 times the Force is shown to manifest in a female form. The 5 Force priestess and the Daughter. The only male representations are the Father and the Son.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
But isn't that the point. The films are meant to rhyme.
TPM, ANH, TFA
ATOC, ESB, TLJ
ROTS, ROTJ, ep 9
But isn't that the point. The films are meant to rhyme.
TPM, ANH, TFA
ATOC, ESB, TLJ
ROTS, ROTJ, ep 9
Jaitea
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Yes,...introduced by George, a way to add nostalgia, just to remind you of the good times....lazy story writing
J
Yes,...introduced by George, a way to add nostalgia, just to remind you of the good times....lazy story writing
J
sztriki
Sr Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
The link should start exactly at the relevant part.
https://youtu.be/miVRaoR_8xQ?t=652
The link should start exactly at the relevant part.
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
I don't see TLJ as "aping" ESB. I see it as referencing it, but it does a lot that I think is different and in pretty significant ways. You could say it's "the same" in a very surface level way, but thre's a lot that I see going on below the surface of the film that is quite different. I don't have time right this second to write it all out, but I think that basically, the position of the characters relative to each other, and their relationships (especially Rey and Ben) are different from what we've seen. And, as I said, I have no idea where the story goes next, which, in and of itself is original. (I have to admit that I was too young to have seen ESB in theaters, and actually saw it for the first time after I watched ROTJ, so I never really knew what it was like to watch ESB and not know what comes next -- although as a kid, I'd have probably expected something like ROTJ where the good guys just win completely and live happily ever after.)
I think if the next film plays out like a redone version of ROTJ, it will be a colossal mistake. I don't see how you can position the characters to be able to defeat the First Order in a significant way unless you do a TON of stuff "off screen" both before and after the next film. I think that would be a huge waste of some awesome storytelling opportunities and would simply be an effort to fast-forward to the end, so that we can have the trilogy tie up with a bow the way the OT did just because that's how the OT did it.
I actually don't want them to "rhyme." Or at least, not "rhyme" in the sense of "We're basically redoing what we did before, just with new characters."
To be honest, I don't buy that "rhyming" crap anyway. The PT doesn't "rhyme" with the OT. It shares certain overarching plot points and structural similarities, but they don't "rhyme." They don't repeat themselves or "sound alike." I see the PT as standing in sharp contrast with the OT (even if we look past the storytelling mistakes and just look at the big picture). The PT shows the fall, the OT shows the rise. The ST...was set off on the wrong foot by skipping way past some important stuff because MYSTERIES ARE HOW YOU TELL MOVIES, GUYS!!!!!!!11!!
No, just kidding. Honestly, I think it makes some sense to skip ahead, but I think it was incredibly jarring and off-putting, and TLJ didn't do anything to really fix that, but rather just said "That stuff's not really important. Let's focus on the now."
Basically, I think Johnson took what JJ left him and did what he was supposed to do -- in his view -- which is to tell a story that primarily focuses on the new central characters and especially Rey and Ben as juxtaposed with each other. I think the film is mainly about them and their relationship, and almost everything else is secondary to that....which is part of why I think people don't like it. The film didn't do enough (for them) to really explore the other characters in ways they liked. I think the "subvert expectations" thing went a little too far with the story of the fleet and the last stand at Crait, but...I'm ok with that IF it pays off what I think it could pay off down the road.
We'll see. I honestly think that TLJ will ultimately be judged much more as a middle chapter of an overall story than as a standalone film, but I love it as a standalone film.
I don't see TLJ as "aping" ESB. I see it as referencing it, but it does a lot that I think is different and in pretty significant ways. You could say it's "the same" in a very surface level way, but thre's a lot that I see going on below the surface of the film that is quite different. I don't have time right this second to write it all out, but I think that basically, the position of the characters relative to each other, and their relationships (especially Rey and Ben) are different from what we've seen. And, as I said, I have no idea where the story goes next, which, in and of itself is original. (I have to admit that I was too young to have seen ESB in theaters, and actually saw it for the first time after I watched ROTJ, so I never really knew what it was like to watch ESB and not know what comes next -- although as a kid, I'd have probably expected something like ROTJ where the good guys just win completely and live happily ever after.)
I think if the next film plays out like a redone version of ROTJ, it will be a colossal mistake. I don't see how you can position the characters to be able to defeat the First Order in a significant way unless you do a TON of stuff "off screen" both before and after the next film. I think that would be a huge waste of some awesome storytelling opportunities and would simply be an effort to fast-forward to the end, so that we can have the trilogy tie up with a bow the way the OT did just because that's how the OT did it.
I actually don't want them to "rhyme." Or at least, not "rhyme" in the sense of "We're basically redoing what we did before, just with new characters."
To be honest, I don't buy that "rhyming" crap anyway. The PT doesn't "rhyme" with the OT. It shares certain overarching plot points and structural similarities, but they don't "rhyme." They don't repeat themselves or "sound alike." I see the PT as standing in sharp contrast with the OT (even if we look past the storytelling mistakes and just look at the big picture). The PT shows the fall, the OT shows the rise. The ST...was set off on the wrong foot by skipping way past some important stuff because MYSTERIES ARE HOW YOU TELL MOVIES, GUYS!!!!!!!11!!
No, just kidding. Honestly, I think it makes some sense to skip ahead, but I think it was incredibly jarring and off-putting, and TLJ didn't do anything to really fix that, but rather just said "That stuff's not really important. Let's focus on the now."
Basically, I think Johnson took what JJ left him and did what he was supposed to do -- in his view -- which is to tell a story that primarily focuses on the new central characters and especially Rey and Ben as juxtaposed with each other. I think the film is mainly about them and their relationship, and almost everything else is secondary to that....which is part of why I think people don't like it. The film didn't do enough (for them) to really explore the other characters in ways they liked. I think the "subvert expectations" thing went a little too far with the story of the fleet and the last stand at Crait, but...I'm ok with that IF it pays off what I think it could pay off down the road.
We'll see. I honestly think that TLJ will ultimately be judged much more as a middle chapter of an overall story than as a standalone film, but I love it as a standalone film.
Jaitea
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
"ape. To ape someone is to imitate them, often in a mocking way. Most people don't like being aped. To ape is to imitate, but it can mean a few different things. One type of aping is to blatantly imitate something or someone in every way."
What RJ "referenced" was done in a mocking way,....so I'd say "ape" is the perfect discription
J
"ape. To ape someone is to imitate them, often in a mocking way. Most people don't like being aped. To ape is to imitate, but it can mean a few different things. One type of aping is to blatantly imitate something or someone in every way."
What RJ "referenced" was done in a mocking way,....so I'd say "ape" is the perfect discription
J
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