Indiana Jones - why don't you have a problem with this?!
- Thread starter Sluis Van Shipyards
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If you bought into a gold box with a bunch of pissed off ghosts in it you're not even allowed to question anything else in the film! 
Thing is, the movie sets up that it's a supernatural gold box. The films don't set up that there's a supernatural periscope, or a magic life raft, or a divine mining cart.If you bought into a gold box with a bunch of pissed off ghosts in it you're not even allowed to question anything else in the film!
Not that I have huge problems with any of those, but questioning those is more valid than questioning the ghost box.
I remember the periscope cut scene talked about back then in magazines, so I never even thought much about it
after that. If it did submerge that is what he did.
Bottom line the film never depicted the sub submerging, we see it sail into port on the surface still.
Indy being a stow away on the conning tower works for me just fine.
after that. If it did submerge that is what he did.
Bottom line the film never depicted the sub submerging, we see it sail into port on the surface still.
Indy being a stow away on the conning tower works for me just fine.
TheBloodPriest
Active Member
I would count the submarine scene as a flat-out plot hole. We’re given that he gets from A to B without any reasonable explanation. They’re not trying to sell us a rationale for how Indy made it work.
The fridge scene, to me, violates a fundamental audience expectation: follow the rules of the universe you’re in, even if you’re making up the rules—you still have to follow them. Indy is established in our universe as a regular (albeit awesome) guy, which leads to a second issue: audience willingness to suspend disbelief.
That anyone from our universe inside the fridge would survive the force of the blast without being rendered into manpudding AND the heat/radiation without being flash-broiled AND then also the landing without shattering every major bone—yet still be not require serious medical attention is infinitely improbable. The biggest problem is that everyone knows this. You can ask an audience to believe the impossible, but come on man! You cannot ask us to believe the improbable.
Shia Labeouf is not an actor and doesn’t belong on any stage. This isn’t related to the topic. It’s just really important to me to say it. [emoji23] #stopshia #nononononoshia
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Just saw it again on the big screen a couple nights ago. When I said you could see the whip on the periscope in the hangar, I was repeating what I'd read. I could not see it this time.
One other thing though: there is a STRONG current going past those ships. There would be no swimming from one to the other.
One other thing though: there is a STRONG current going past those ships. There would be no swimming from one to the other.
TheBloodPriest
Active Member
Without the deleted submarine scene it counts as a plot hole. If it weren’t deleted, it would not count as a plot-hole. Audiences would not have bought that Indy would have believed the submarine would remain periscope-up at periscope depth for the entire length of the voyage. For the most part, audiences were never forced to confront the question.
Obligatory: Shia Labeouf cannot actually act. He parrots lines in the same character, badly, with different degrees of irritation in different movies. #shiaisnotmyindyjr #stopshia #nonononoshia
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Obligatory: Shia Labeouf cannot actually act. He parrots lines in the same character, badly, with different degrees of irritation in different movies. #shiaisnotmyindyjr #stopshia #nonononoshia
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robn1
Master Member
Indy didn't even have his whip when he boarded the sub, no rope either. If he lashed himself to anything it would have to be with his belt.Just saw it again on the big screen a couple nights ago. When I said you could see the whip on the periscope in the hangar, I was repeating what I'd read. I could not see it this time.
One other thing though: there is a STRONG current going past those ships. There would be no swimming from one to the other.
That doesn't come close to a plot hole. If the Nazi's took the ark and left, and Indy suddenly appeared on the island with no explanation of how he got there, that would be a plot hole. But we know how he got there, the plot is intact whether it's believable or not.
I assume the periscope/snorkel scene was cut for pacing, but it could also be that they learned the sub would most likely have remained on the surface anyway. As was stated upthread, a U-boat of the time would not have had enough battery power or air supply to run that distance submerged.
Lightning
Master Member
In the original cut, they had the model tri-motor crumple against the mountain with no fireball, they built a special collapsible model. It didn't look right so they superimposed the fireball. However, there should be enough residual gas and gasoline vapor in the system to ignite in a short lived fireball, even if the tanks have recently run out.
What was interesting to me then and now is the temple has a trap triggered by light.
And it remained functional after perhaps hundreds of years? That's some impressive advanced
technology for an ancient jungle society. And then the light show in the map room was also impressive tech.
And it remained functional after perhaps hundreds of years? That's some impressive advanced
technology for an ancient jungle society. And then the light show in the map room was also impressive tech.
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
The Trap triggered by light is certainly strange. Probably should have been something simple like a pressure plate or a trip wire.
The map room is very believable for me though. It's a lens, which can be traced back to about 400-1000BC give or take. And Sundials have been around since about 1500BC, so we know that they could figure out sun position. Figuring out how to build a room to catch the light at a certain time of day would not be all that difficult.
TheBloodPriest
Active Member
Obligatory: Labeouf playing a spazz required a lot less effort than he put into it, and it was really hard to watch. Nobody studies real acting anymore. #notmyindyjr #stopshia #nononononoshia
You’re right, and I concede the point. We do know. It’s absurd, but we know. Which brings us back to the problem of the U-boat: one dive and Indy dies. But if Germans weren’t even in the area at the time, then there is no allied aircraft threat to worry about, which makes spotting planes and diving rather unnecessarily and even unlikely, thus making their choice of transportation even more questionable. I would think a U-boat is a lot more trouble than an actual boat. Didn’t even need to be a German boat to make that trip. Quite the contrary, I would think the odds of survival would be greater by just hijacking a local boat.
As far as Indy surviving the sub trip, the light hitting the correct spot despite the staff being cut wrong, and probably a lot of other things in the other movies as well—well, I can close the argument quite simply:
God was on Indy’s side. [emoji846]
(ducks)
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You’re right, and I concede the point. We do know. It’s absurd, but we know. Which brings us back to the problem of the U-boat: one dive and Indy dies. But if Germans weren’t even in the area at the time, then there is no allied aircraft threat to worry about, which makes spotting planes and diving rather unnecessarily and even unlikely, thus making their choice of transportation even more questionable. I would think a U-boat is a lot more trouble than an actual boat. Didn’t even need to be a German boat to make that trip. Quite the contrary, I would think the odds of survival would be greater by just hijacking a local boat.
As far as Indy surviving the sub trip, the light hitting the correct spot despite the staff being cut wrong, and probably a lot of other things in the other movies as well—well, I can close the argument quite simply:
God was on Indy’s side. [emoji846]
(ducks)
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Didn't they do the raft thing on Mythbusters? If so I can't remember what they found out about it.
I think the only answer to that, is what was the German Navy's procedure for U-boats operating on the surface when there wasn't a thread? Would they sail on the surface, or still submerge? I've read and watched a lot of stuff on U-boats and I don't remember ever hearing that.
German U-Boats, and American submarines traveled on the surface, unless they were hiding, or in battle. This is because the submarine hulls were designed for surface travel, which was the quickest way to get where you want to go. Also the subs were diesel-electric powered. The diesel engine produced more power, and charged the batteries for underwater travel. In battle, the subs switched to battery power, which only lasted a few hours when powering the engines. Subs had snorkels for using the diesel engines underwater, but the German snorkels were notoriously bad. The engine exhaust and air intake on the snorkel were close to each other, and the snorkel would pull in the diesel exhaust. So they used the snorkel as little as possible.
In actuality, the U-Boat would have traveled most, if not all the way on the surface. Indy's problem would have been finding a place to hide from the watch Officers, and all the crewman that come out on the deck.
David.
In actuality, the U-Boat would have traveled most, if not all the way on the surface. Indy's problem would have been finding a place to hide from the watch Officers, and all the crewman that come out on the deck.
David.
Indy tied to the periscope.
Indy surviving a skydive in an inflatable raft.
Indy surviving being shot down by the German aircraft when Indy Sr. prompts the birds.
Indy surviving a nuclear blast by hiding in a fridge. Though I hated Crystal Skull I will defend this one, though admittedly it went on too long.
I accept all of these because what makes Indiana Jones so much fun to watch is that he gets in WAY over his head and is about to die. He does something without thinking, just out of pure desperation and miraculously it's like fate smiles down on him and it works. He lives to see another day. It's the reason we keep coming back.
It's what separates Indiana Jones from all other action adventure heroes. He's lucky.
"I'm just making this up as I go."
"I'm like a bad penny. I always turn up."
Indy surviving a skydive in an inflatable raft.
Indy surviving being shot down by the German aircraft when Indy Sr. prompts the birds.
Indy surviving a nuclear blast by hiding in a fridge. Though I hated Crystal Skull I will defend this one, though admittedly it went on too long.
I accept all of these because what makes Indiana Jones so much fun to watch is that he gets in WAY over his head and is about to die. He does something without thinking, just out of pure desperation and miraculously it's like fate smiles down on him and it works. He lives to see another day. It's the reason we keep coming back.
It's what separates Indiana Jones from all other action adventure heroes. He's lucky.
"I'm just making this up as I go."
"I'm like a bad penny. I always turn up."
Laspector
Master Member
They did do that on Mythbusters and it didn't work. They did finally get it to work with (I think) one of those big inflatable ramps for getting people out of airplanes or something like that.
VonMagnum
Sr Member
I swam in the Atlantic for 4+ hours with no wet suit that was 59 degrees many years ago. I'm still here with all my toes. The body has its own heating system and insulation.
It'd eventually give you hypothermia, sure, but how long? At 90 degrees, a LONG time for some of us that are well padded.
I just assumed the sub never submerged again. Why would it need to? WWII was still YEARS off.
But the boat thing in Temple of Doom, the Crystals Skulls somehow becoming a flesh and blood alien, the "old" Knight who lived over 700 years but still looked ancient. The carrying the Grail across the seal working like "magic" when all the other traps were clearly man-made (how'd they convince "God" to booby-trap the seal to the grail?) Why did they say the grail wasn't gold yet the inside seemed to be lined with it anyway? It goes on and on. I suppose you can't enjoy the movies if you let it get to you.
The biggest one that bugged me in Raiders from when I was a kid even is why was there just sand inside the Ark? Stone tablets wouldn't turn into fine sand even over thousands of years, especially protected inside a golden wooden box. Did someone steal the contents and some sand got in there from the sandstorm that buried Tanis? Maybe the tablets were deeper under the sand for that reason and they never got a chance to look? What was with the angels? The flame, OK, from the Old Testament. Inside the Ark? God didn't actually live inside the Ark.... How did the Nazis lift the lid without dying for that matter? Touching it was a big no-no. Supposedly you could disable whatever "trap" it had with the top priest ceremony, but how would Belloq know it? I guess he clearly didn't since he died....
Ah well, the Indy movies were still great. You have to suspend disbelief sometimes I suppose. It was the character interaction that really made them work which is perhaps why Temple of Doom doesn't rate quite as high as Raiders and The Last Crusade.
The Crystal Kingdom.... I dunno. The ending ruined it for me more than anything (and I watch Ancient Aliens all the time, but that didn't come close to making sense. How did the alien come alive from several skulls and why take off, etc.? No clue. No way to know any clue. It was a downer of an ending. The endings made more sense in the other movies even if the details did not.
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