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  1. Bryancd's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 4:45 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #151

    mofo77 said: View Post
    i was thinkin the same as egosheep but Bryancd makes a good point as well.
    just got a bad feelin bout a whole johnson trilogy.although maybe his talents and ideas for a new trilogy without the restrictions of existing plot lines and character development might allow him to make amends for........ well my personal dissapointment in TLJ.
    anyhow the best news i've seen recently is GOT guys doing this additional new trilogy.
    I would add he came in on time and on budget and delivered the number one global box office performer of the year. His entire production went without a single hiccup. He's very highly regarded at LucasFilm and isn't going anywhere.

    Benihoff and Weis aren't doing a trilogy, it sounds like a few separate films.
  2. Mr Webber's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 4:54 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #152

    He`s a hack writer and director who made the worst Star Wars film EVER and created a massive rift in the community and is also responsible for the name Star Wars to be tarnished to such a point that it has been removed from the title of its latest incarnation from the worlds second biggest market. On time and on budget means nothing to people who just want good Star Wars movies and it never will be.
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    Feb 16, 2018, 5:05 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #153

    Bryancd said: View Post
    No. They have more then enough production capacity to have multiple films being made simultaneously, they have the capital requirements to fund these projects, and they are launching their streaming serivice in 2019 and all these films will eventually find a home there. Rian Johnson is working on a trilogy of films, these guys are working on a series of unrelated films which won't even go into pre-production until 2019 at the earliest due to their GOT commitments. Also they were initially approached to do tv development but they had some film ideas they pitched that were well received. The need for content is increasing not decreasing.
    What Disney needs is quality content that doesn't damage the brand, not just more quantity. Audience fatigue and brand oversaturation is a thing, and Disney may already be over the line. How do you see the schedule of the next 4 years shaping up? To me it seems like the only way this works is if any additional Skywalker Trilogy movies are put on hold, Rian does a new trilogy(old republic maybe) and GoT guys do loosely connected anthology films in between. I don't see them doing three SW movies a year or juggling separate connected storylines when there were average moviegoers who were expecting to see Rey and Finn in Rogue One. After the fiascos with Lord and Miller and Trevorrow, I'm not sure why it's so left-field to suggest that Rian may not end up making his trilogy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Bryancd said: View Post
    His entire production went without a single hiccup.
    You're kidding, right? Just because it doesn't make The Star Wars Show doesn't mean there weren't production issues.
  4. Bryancd's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 5:16 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #154

    egosheep said: View Post
    What Disney needs is quality content that doesn't damage the brand, not just more quantity. Audience fatigue and brand oversaturation is a thing, and Disney may already be over the line. How do you see the schedule of the next 4 years shaping up? To me it seems like the only way this works is if any additional Skywalker Trilogy movies are put on hold, Rian does a new trilogy(old republic maybe) and GoT guys do loosely connected anthology films in between. I don't see them doing three SW movies a year or juggling separate connected storylines when there were average moviegoers who were expecting to see Rey and Finn in Rogue One. After the fiascos with Lord and Miller and Trevorrow, I'm not sure why it's so left-field to suggest that Rian may not end up making his trilogy.
    .
    For sure, audience fatigue and saturation are real possibilities. The only way to really know the size of a marketplace is to push that theory to find the breaking point. Star Wars isn't there yet, may never get there, or may if they have multiple films and TV competing annually. TBD.

    I think they will take a hiatus from films involving Rey, Kylo, Finn, Poe, et al after 2019. I think an Obi Wan standalone is 70/30 a possibility within the next few years. I think Rian has a concept he has already pitched and they have greenlit so that could start production sometime around 2020. These guys can probably be ready to go in front of cameras by 2021 or 2022. We will likely know the next 5 years of post 2019 releases planned at the next D23 convention this summer, they are do to make those plans known with more clarity. I think a film per year will be their sweet spot. The director issues with Lord and Miller and Trevorrow where distinct from eacother and doesn't have any immediate correlation to Rian Johnson.

    Regarding TLJ production relative to R1 and Solo, I think it's accurate to say it didn't have any meaningful issues.
  5. cboath's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 6:02 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #155

    Bryancd said: View Post
    I would add he came in on time and on budget and delivered the number one global box office performer of the year. His entire production went without a single hiccup. He's very highly regarded at LucasFilm and isn't going anywhere.

    Benihoff and Weis aren't doing a trilogy, it sounds like a few separate films.
    People keep throwing around the box office numbers as if they're at all related to the quality of the movie. They might be, but just slightly.

    If TFA an TLJ were 100% identical in story and cast/crew/etc, but didn't have SW or Luke/Leia/Chewie/Falcon attached to it, it wouldn't have grossed half, or maybe a third of what it did. You have to be honest about that.

    I've never made a movie, but i guarantee you if you gave me E7 or 8 that i'd be able to garner close to the same box office numbers. STAR WARS in name is what sells the tickets at this point. To further illustrate that point, didn't BOTH of them score 200M before it was in theatres via presales? That's more than a number of movies made in their entire release. And that's not directed completely at you, you're not the only one who's push the box office numbers.

    Now, coming in on time, under budget and with no issues - that's a huge plus, no arguement there.

    I'd also add that when he does a whole trilogy that i'd bet anything he has the full story mapped out before part 1 begins filming. He got no such luxury this time. He also won't have the OT to whiz all over this time either. Short of that, i'd have like TLJ a good deal more.

    Fatigue can be an issue, and i don't think SW is fatigued from 3 flicks in 3 years. It's taking heat on the quality front and the fact they actively chose to anger the OT fans who are the primary audience that makes this thing what it is. I'm not saying you suck up to them ad nasuem, but you don't go intentially pissing them off either. The bigger issue is that to keep a string going, you have to have an actual plan/outline of what you're trying to accomplish. That's why it works for marvel and fails for DC in large part. Seems to be lacking with SW as well. "That sounds good, lets do that", "ooh, i like that, we'll make that too", all irrespective of any plan. That's not to say all anthology flicks have to relate to an overarching storyline - but they do need to follow the establish history, and it WOULD be helpful if they were part of a master plan. TRILOGIES, and especially the main one, need to be laid out story wise before the first one is shot. Period. End of story. You don't film part 1 with no @%^(ing clue as to what happens in 2 or 3. You have to know what happens in each part so you're not making it up as you go along. If the plan is to do 7-9, and 10-12 at some point, you need to have a clue as to what needs to happen along the way. FFS, lucas had it outline to 12 parts at one time, but the final 7 got edited down to ROTJ. But he had the story outline. These guys seem have jack and the powers that be don't care that there's no plan as long as it brings in money. TLJ brought in money because it's SW, not because of TLJ itself. The sooner they realize it the better.
    Last edited by cboath; Feb 16, 2018 at 6:12 PM.
  6. Bryancd's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 6:08 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #156

    cboath said: View Post
    People keep throwing around the box office numbers as if they're at all related to the quality of the movie. They might be, but just slightly.

    If TFA an TLJ were 100% identical in story and cast/crew/etc, but didn't have SW or Luke/Leia/Chewie/Falcon attached to it, it wouldn't have grossed half, or maybe a third of what it did. You have to be honest about that.

    I've never made a movie, but i guarantee you if you gave me E7 or 8 that i'd be able to garner close to the same box office numbers. STAR WARS in name is what sells the tickets at this point. To further illustrate that point, didn't BOTH of them score 200M before it was in theatres via presales? That's more than a number of movies made in their entire release. And that's not directed completely at you, you're not the only one who's push the box office numbers.
    Hey
    Now, coming in on time, under budget and with no issues - that's a huge plus, no arguement there.

    I'd also add that when he does a whole trilogy that i'd bet anything he has the full story mapped out before part 1 begins filming. He got no such luxury this time. He also won't have the OT to whiz all over this time either. Short of that, i'd have like TLJ a good deal more.
    I wasn’t correlating box office to quality as quality is subjective, box office is objective. Subjectively Rian Johnson has delivered for Lucasfilm. Objectively, some people didn’t care for it. Lucasfilm won’t part ways with someone who has proven themselves critically and financially. They will see post IX where the fandom is but it’s not a huge concern for them right now. I know for people who don’t like TLJ they want retribution against Rian but that’s not going to happen.
  7. Mr Webber's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 6:15 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #157

    Bryancd said: View Post
    I know for people who don’t like TLJ they want retribution against Rian but that’s not going to happen.
    I know you like to give the impression that you have some kind of inside knowledge and are on Lucasfilms speed dial but I`m tipping you dont and are not. Anyone who has done so much damage to an iconic brand must surely be on the outs.
  8. cboath's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 6:16 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #158

    I do not like what he did with Luke. Period. End of story. I do not seek retribution. I'd like IX to have a bit of a mea culpa aspect to it though.

    As i've said, i don't think they have an over arching plan. They're making it up as they go along it seems. I hope that's wrong. I can admit to not like ESB at all when i first saw it. I was 9 and to me it was my heroes getting their butts kicked for 2 hours, the end. I came around after ROTJ when you see how it tied all together. I'm willing to wait til post IX to give a final verdict to 8.

    This is, if 9 makes 8 more palpable - i fully believe it will be either damage control or simply JJ's idea. I don't think there was a plan at all for 9 when 8 was being written. It seems to have been, you finish 8 and we'll then start 9.
  9. Bryancd's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 6:26 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #159

    cboath said: View Post
    I do not like what he did with Luke. Period. End of story. I do not seek retribution. I'd like IX to have a bit of a mea culpa aspect to it though.

    As i've said, i don't think they have an over arching plan. They're making it up as they go along it seems. I hope that's wrong. I can admit to not like ESB at all when i first saw it. I was 9 and to me it was my heroes getting their butts kicked for 2 hours, the end. I came around after ROTJ when you see how it tied all together. I'm willing to wait til post IX to give a final verdict to 8.

    This is, if 9 makes 8 more palpable - i fully believe it will be either damage control or simply JJ's idea. I don't think there was a plan at all for 9 when 8 was being written. It seems to have been, you finish 8 and we'll then start 9.
    I have said before I don’t believe they have an over arching plan by design. I think their instinct is to keep the Saga films fairly wide open creatively in the hopes of attracting great talent to play in the universe. Very similar to what GL always envisioned. How successful that strategy is has yet to be determined but it’s had a few bumps in the road. I’m not privy to any information that can’t be gleaned from news or following and conversing with people who know others closer to Lucasfilm. If they had a strict story arc what great director or writer would want to step into that environment? These GOT guts is a good sign their instincts are correct, give creative people a chance. It may cause rumblings in parts of the fandom but the franchise can easily survive a few of those. But just a few.
  10. Mr Webber's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 6:31 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #160

    People are dropping off like flies, the dramatic slump in toy sales, the box office for TLJ falling off a cliff and the overwhelming amount of negative comments from a huge number of fans both here and else where online support this fact.
  11. JediMichael's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 7:06 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #161

    The Wook said: View Post
    An example of this is knowing that many Bothans died stealing the plans to the second Death Star, not the first.

    The Wook
    Ok, so this post is like 4 days ago, which in fourm terms, is forever ago. But yeah, when Rogue One came out, I heard so many people talking about how we're going to see Bothans stealing the plans.
    I actually just did a Star Wars quiz the other day, which was suppose to be hard. A few things I didn't know, but most, I did. But even the quiz got the Bothan thing wrong. I just laughed.
  12. Bryancd's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2018, 7:10 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #162

    JediMichael said: View Post
    Ok, so this post is like 4 days ago, which in fourm terms, is forever ago. But yeah, when Rogue One came out, I heard so many people talking about how we're going to see Bothans stealing the plans.
    I actually just did a Star Wars quiz the other day, which was suppose to be hard. A few things I didn't know, but most, I did. But even the quiz got the Bothan thing wrong. I just laughed.
    if you really want to be pedantic, she says many Bothans dies to bring us this information but never said the Bothans actually stole the plans.
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    Feb 16, 2018, 7:24 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #163

    Bryancd said: View Post
    if you really want to be pedantic, she says many Bothans dies to bring us this information but never said the Bothans actually stole the plans.
    That is true. Guess we just assume they also stole them as well and brought them.
    Maybe that can be Rogue Two. haha
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    Feb 17, 2018, 4:01 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #164

    Bryancd said: View Post
    I have said before I don’t believe they have an over arching plan by design. If they had a strict story arc what great director or writer would want to step into that environment? These GOT guts is a good sign their instincts are correct, give creative people a chance. It may cause rumblings in parts of the fandom but the franchise can easily survive a few of those. But just a few.

    Umm , Irwin Kershner ... TESB !?
  15. Greenie's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2018, 7:06 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #165

    FFS! The line is 'many Bothans died to bring us this information'. That information was concerning the SECOND Deathstar.

    This is the base line for evaluating SWIQ as explained repeatedly by @The Wook
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    Feb 17, 2018, 8:51 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #166

    The market does not always show immediate changes. Interpret that how you will in regard to Disney Wars, but I believe you're going to see a brand that declines and declines until they decide to shift their tone. People don't like social issues being injected into their action adventure movies. That's not why people see them. If you want that go make a drama, but keep it out of my Star Wars. Just make a fun movie without hidden agendas or sociopolitical messages. It is the absolute fastest way to wear out an audience that's looking for some fun. If I wanted to get social agendas I'd turn on the news.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
  17. SethS's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2018, 1:20 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #167

    The OT was a commentary on fascism. The PT was a commentary on the corruption of capitalism by lobbyists and special interest groups. George Lucas threatened to sue the Reagan administration for using the term "Star Wars" to describe its proposed laser defense system. Maybe it hasn't always been as on the nose as TLJs WAR PROFITEERING IS BAD subplot, but Star War, and most good sci-fi, has always had political subtext.
  18. joshvanrad's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2018, 2:26 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #168

    The OT was not commentary on anything. It used themes from clearly black and white situations to make an easy to follow good versus evil storyline that's been recycled for all of time.

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  19. SethS's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2018, 2:49 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #169

    That's the definition of subtext. If you're using knowingly loaded iconography, that alone is a commentary. It may not be super deep-- and I agree, TLJ was much more on the nose about it and could have been much more clever, but Lucas, a known staunch liberal, was never shy about sharing his views.

    I have to be careful here cause it seems like the second I share a political view I get warned, so I'm going to play this as centrist as possible. Scifi and a fair amount of fantasy has always been used as a social allegory. It's one of the key things about the genre. Again-- I agree TLJ was way too on the nose, but to say all other SW is free of political commentary is just not true.

    I think the problem is, our corrupt government (both parties) and our main stream media (the true terrorists) have divided us to the point that any given movie is assumed to have issues- whether it's liberals screaming about diversity casting, or conservatives screaming about SJW agendas, I don't think things have changed too much. I think we've been programmed, for better or worse, to be hyper aware of it.

    And I do think this is on topic, because GOT has tons of political subtext to it. I don't know if that means they are going to imbue that into their SW projects or not.

    At the end of the day though, I do agree with your core statement-- these things should be subtext, and not overt manifestos.
    Last edited by SethS; Feb 17, 2018 at 2:56 PM.
  20. robn1's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2018, 4:34 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #170

    Greenie said: View Post
    FFS! The line is 'many Bothans died to bring us this information'. That information was concerning the SECOND Deathstar.

    This is the base line for evaluating SWIQ as explained repeatedly by @The Wook
    And it had nothing to do with plans, only where it was and that the Emperor would be aboard.
  21. The Wook's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2018, 4:48 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #171

    robn1 said: View Post
    And it had nothing to do with plans, only where it was and that the Emperor would be aboard.
    Oh, and one more important piece of intel: that the Death Star's weapons systems were not yet operational.

    I will update my example to include these high-SWIQ corrections brought to us by @Bryancd and @robn1.

    The Wook
  22. TheMechanic's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2018, 6:46 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #172

    Intel that was wrong. Poor Manny Bothans died for nothing. LOL
  23. PantheraGem's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2018, 6:53 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #173

    TheMechanic said: View Post
    Intel that was wrong. Poor Manny Bothans died for nothing. LOL
    I knew Manny. He was a good guy.
  24. Sluis Van Shipyards's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2018, 8:35 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #174

    Yes. His only flaw was that he couldn't dodge. So sad.

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