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  1. Mr Mold Maker's Avatar
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    Feb 9, 2018, 5:56 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #101

    Sure. Agree to disagree then mates.

    Whatever they come up with, surely it can't be any worse than the Last Jedi... but then again, they did give Rian his own trilogy. Bad decisions everywhere.
    Last edited by Mr Mold Maker; Feb 9, 2018 at 6:05 AM.
  2. gedmac66's Avatar
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    Feb 11, 2018, 2:26 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #102

    SethS said: View Post
    I don’t want to be combative, but again, the box office has made it clear that the outrage for TLJ comes from hardcore fandom. The masses don’t really care. And Kathleen Kennedy is not a suit— she is a hands on film producer with over 30 years of experience. She has produced practically every hit Speilberg has ever had. This is not an “apology” move— it’s a decision to hire people known to fandom— just like JJ was.
    Agree with most of what you’ve said regarding Kathleen Kennedy .
    However , I don’t believe for one second that Steven Spielberg would have changed / altered any of his films , ‘ hits ‘ or otherwise on the say - so / suggestions , of Ms Kennedy ( under her Producers hat !) .
    Unfortunately the same can’ be said for those working under her now making SW films .
    It’s either take serious consideration of what’s being ‘ suggested ‘ , since she took stewardship of LF , or risk being ‘ replaced ‘ . IMO .

    Ged
  3. RPF Premium Member teragon's Avatar
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    Feb 11, 2018, 8:50 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #103

    gedmac66 said: View Post
    However , I don’t believe for one second that Steven Spielberg would have changed / altered any of his films , ‘ hits ‘ or otherwise on the say - so / suggestions , of Ms Kennedy ( under her Producers hat !) .
    Spielberg or not Spielberg, he did not fund his films himself, the producers found the money, and definitely had a say in whatever was happening... The director doesn't have absolute power on their movies, unless they're solely producing it as well. He might not have taken any suggestions KK could have made purely on a creative level, based on her opinion alone, but if a suggestion she made was based on a requirement to access a specific tax break or film fund (could impact film locations, cast and crew, even story points), he might not even had a choice in the matter...

    Edit : I'd actually go further than that, usually directors have only as much power as the producers allow them to have. The bigger the name, the more leverage they have to ask for freedom, but in other cases, the production has full authority to fire a director (case and point : Lord & Miller) or replace one and change the story (Mathieu Kassovitz, for Babylon AD, the dude found himself sitting behind a combo watching somebody else directing his own movie...)
    Last edited by teragon; Feb 11, 2018 at 8:59 AM.
  4. cboath's Avatar
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    Feb 11, 2018, 8:59 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #104

    Please...you make it should like it's 100% her opinion only and nothing else. JJ and RJ both say they had zero influence up on them. Trank getting tossed would appear to be a smart move. Lord and Millar? who knows the real reason. If you think it was soley because she didn't like it and nothing else, you're nuts. If I was watching dailies thinking i'm getting a SW live action lego movie, i'd make a switch, too. I love the lego movie, but that's not what a han solo movie should be.

    If there's any meddling i'd imagine it's coming from above her. There seem to have been things that have come out that indicate those above here are having some say. I don't know if it's true or not, you don't hear a peep of them meddling on the Marvel side after all.
  5. gedmac66's Avatar
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    Feb 11, 2018, 9:56 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #105

    cboath said: View Post
    Please...you make it should like it's 100% her opinion only and nothing else. JJ and RJ both say they had zero influence up on them. Trank getting tossed would appear to be a smart move. Lord and Millar? who knows the real reason. If you think it was soley because she didn't like it and nothing else, you're nuts. If I was watching dailies thinking i'm getting a SW live action lego movie, i'd make a switch, too. I love the lego movie, but that's not what a han solo movie should be.

    If there's any meddling i'd imagine it's coming from above her. There seem to have been things that have come out that indicate those above here are having some say. I don't know if it's true or not, you don't hear a peep of them meddling on the Marvel side after all.
    What I’m trying to say ( not very well ) is that KK may not be responsible ( solely or otherwise ) for whether a film is successful or not as a producer - regardless of her input . The way that @SethS described her , you’d think that she was responsible for ( or a major part of ) Spielbergs’ achievements as a filmmaker over the last 30 years !? .

    As far as ‘ others ‘ meddling in the SW franchise - that may well be , but as you say , we don’t and probably will , never know . @Bryancd might !
    However , like it or not , like GL before her , she’s the face of LF right now . So , regardless of what the situation is regarding any SW related project , all if not most criticism of them , will be laid at her feet .
    I personally don’t subscribe to that way of thinking - unfortunately many others do .
  6. Bryancd is offline Bryancd
    Feb 11, 2018, 10:01 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #106

    gedmac66 said: View Post
    What I’m trying to say ( not very well ) is that KK may not be responsible ( solely or otherwise ) for whether a film is successful or not as a producer - regardless of her input . The way that @SethS described her , you’d think that she was responsible for ( or a major part of ) Spielbergs’ achievements as a filmmaker over the last 30 years !? .

    As far as ‘ others ‘ meddling in the SW franchise - that may well be , but as you say , we don’t and probably will , never know . @Bryancd might !
    However , like it or not , like GL before her , she’s the face of LF right now . So , regardless of what the situation is regarding any SW related project , all if not most criticism of them , will be laid at her feet .
    I personally don’t subscribe to that way of thinking - unfortunately many others do .
    I just take everyone at face value. If JJ and Rian said they had complete creative control over their projects, I accept that. In regards to Lord and Miller, I've said multiple times that I believe that was the influence of Lawrence Kasdan, not KK. He wrote Solo and I think he was very unhappy with what he was seeing from the Lord and Miller production. He has sufficient clout with KK and Lucasfilm to have them removed.
  7. gedmac66's Avatar
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    Feb 11, 2018, 10:05 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #107

    But do you think those above ( at Disney ) regarding Ms Kennedy and LF , are pulling strings as alluded to ? Is there any truth to that ?
    Not having a go mate ,but I took what Mr Hamill said about his concerns ( originally ) regarding his character in TLJ at face value too !
    Last edited by gedmac66; Feb 11, 2018 at 10:12 AM.
  8. Bryancd is offline Bryancd
    Feb 11, 2018, 10:13 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #108

    gedmac66 said: View Post
    But do you think those above ( Disney) Ms Kennedy , are pulling strings as alluded to ?
    Not having a go but , I took what Mr Hamill said about his concerns ( originally ) regarding his character in TLJ at face value too !
    No, there isn't any precedent with that in regards to either Marvel or Pixar either. The point of buying these companies that have a proven track record is to allow them to continue doing what they are doing. Bob Iger isn't on the phone with KK or Kevin Feige micro-managing SW or Marvel films. He's providing them the resources to expand the scope of their output to meet future content demand but not editing stories.
  9. SethS's Avatar
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    Feb 11, 2018, 12:49 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #109

    I feel like I should follow what I said with a little explanation about what exactly an EP does. It's a title that gets thrown around a lot, and covers a lot of different things. I'm EP on a movie and all I did was give them story notes. It really depends on the production, size of said production, etc.

    Working at the Spielberg level though is a different animal. The guy has pretty much had a studio deal his entire career. So he's never had a need for a producer to find him money. With most studio films, they actually start with the EP developing the concept with a writer and hiring the director when they feel it is ready. In case of the Spielberg, they developed his myriad ideas in the early Amblin days-- finding writers and directors for the projects he wanted to develop on the side versus the ones he was going to direct himself.

    Any classic Amblin film produced by Spielberg, Marshal, and Kennedy but directed by somebody else (Gremlins, Goonies, arguably Poltergeist, to name a few) had the three of them involved early on making creative decisions. Development is generally the EPs and the writer having a writer's room to develop the concept. If you want a really cool example of this, search for the Raiders of the Lost Ark story session transcripts. It's Spielberg, Lucas, and Kasdan sitting in a room pitching each other ideas.

    So when you're talking about Amblin/Spielberg films in general, some of the most high-concept creative films ever made, I can promise you, Kennedy was involved in the creative aspects of it. Then there's all the physical production aspects-- finding crew, securing locations, planning the budget, arranging for pretty much anything that goes before the camera, making schedules-- there are lower ranking producers whose job is to do these things-- but in the early planning stages, it falls on the EPs until they hire for those positions.

    And that's just pre-production. When the movies are shooting, think of the entire production like a company. Everyone answers to somebody above them, up the chain, to a department head. The DP, the First AD, the Key Grip, head of transpo, stunt supervisor, FX supervisor-- etc. Think of department heads as VPs in a company, running different divisions. Above the VPs you'll have the executives. The Director is the President-- the one in charge of all final decisions key to the business. The one running the VPs, and calling shots. The President is in a checks and balances system with the CFO, (an EP); the CEO (another EP), and possible even other "chief" positions.

    On a normal production, the EP hires the director for a project, and can fire them. Spielberg's films were ones he brought them to-- but if Spielberg ever went over-time, or over-budget, or was otherwise not doing his job correctly, Kennedy and Marshal would be the ones to tell him and get him back on track.

    On-set during the production, the director needs to be able to just focus on what's on his plate for the day-- shooting the scenes on the call sheet. Say it's day 23 of Temple of Doom and they're in the jungle, doing the campfire scene. There's an animal wrangler on set with a cranky bat, you're working night hours meaning people may be getting over-time paychecks cut to them that night, say a suit from Paramount has just arrived to see how things are going and they're a little behind schedule, the elephant wrangler is threatening to walk cause he wants more money, the Indian government is saying they can't use the palace they planned to shoot at anymore cause they don't like how Indian people are being portrayed in the film-- all of that has to be handled in a way that Spielberg is shielded so he can focus and get the scene shot, cause he's got a minor on set who can only work for so many hours.

    I made all that up, but that's what could happen on a single day on a big movie, and the person who shields the director and handles this stuff so he can do his job, is one of the EPs. The people who watch the budget and the schedule and keep everything running smoothly-- the EP. They literally run everything.

    When you get to post-production the director, especially one like Spielberg, might be ready to bounce onto the next project. Generally the director will over-see editing and FX work being done, but sometimes he can't-- guess who steps in to make the command decisions-- an EP. TRUE story-- Schindler's List came together quick, and Jurassic Park went over-time. Spielberg, Marshal, and Kennedy all had to jump on Schindler while JP was in post. Lucas stepped in as a favor and while he didn't take the credit for it, was essential an EP for JP in post and over-saw most of the post-process.

    Anyway-- my point was just that Kennedy was never just an office suit, or somebody who made budgets. She was involved in both the developmental creative, as well as the day to day physical production of some of the biggest movies ever made-- movies made in that same era as the OT and have a very similar feel to them. There are very few people more qualified than her to run Lucasfilm. One may not like her creative direction, but to say she isn't qualified with her experience and resume is preposterous.

    THAT said-- she's obviously not infallible. But if we want to critique her, take aim at the legit mistakes she's made. Don't just call her a suit or Disney shill who doesn't know what she's doing. In my eyes, she's really only made one error-- but it's a big one that's been made repeatedly: she's hired the wrong people. Between firings, rewrites, and reshoots, she's chosen the wrong people for the job more than once.

    Sure, she couldn't know that Arndt was going to choke, or that Rogue One's first cut might be lacking in some ooomph, or that Trank was going to lose his mind, or that the Solo guys were going to want to improve half the script, or that Treverrow was going to make one of the worst movies ever made... but if it's her job to hire talent, she should have an eye for it. Being a good boss is hiring the right people. I think her heart was in the right place-- to hire a new generation of filmmakers that were raised on Star Wars, but most of them just weren't ready for the scale of things. A good boss should have seen that. Going to Ron Howard was a brilliant move-- he's part of the Lucasfilm family, Lucas mentored him to an extent, he's made a dozen amazing films on his own.

    Anyway-- if you hate the creative direction of the Disney era, you could level some of that at her, but just as not-liking TLJ doesn't mean it's a bad movie, not liking her direction doesn't mean she doesn't know what she's doing. There's a difference between an outright mistake, and a choice you just don't like.
  10. RPF Premium Member teragon's Avatar
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    Feb 11, 2018, 3:42 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #110

    Very good read, thanks SethS. I know my way around European "indie" productions, but I have to admit I don't know the US system as well as I'd like to.
  11. gedmac66's Avatar
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    Feb 11, 2018, 8:59 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #111

    Thanks for posting this @SethS ,

    Appreciate the time and effort you placed in this - especially the hypothetical Temple of Doom - day in the life of filming scenario .
    Found out things about the film industry today ( from a certain point of view ) , that I wasn’t aware of . Really do agree with your observations in paragraphs 10,11 and 13 .

    Ged
  12. G W Zipper's Avatar
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    Feb 12, 2018, 1:54 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #112

    The Wook said: View Post
    I cannot exactly say there is a correlation between someone's SWIQ and whether or not they saw Star Wars in the summer of '77. Because I know a lot of people who possess a very low SWIQ, who did, in fact, see the film during its initial theatrical run. So, having seen Star Wars in '77 does not mean it's likely you possess a high SWIQ.

    However, this correlation does exist:

    If you do possess a high SWIQ, it is very likely you saw Star Wars in '77.

    The Wook
    I'm so happy the SWIQ is back. How would I judge my own SWIQ? Have you created some sort of test? How much of the SWIQ depends on the EU? How much credit would I get for refusing to call the movie first seen in 1977 "A New Hope", or "Episode IV", but instead simply "Star Wars"?

    I know this is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but this should be a real thing, on its own thread. We could then post our SWIQ in our signatures so others could know how seriously our opinions should be taken. Or better yet, the SWIQ placement could be a higher level, admin type thing so everybody would be all-in.
  13. Axlotl's Avatar
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    Feb 12, 2018, 2:24 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #113

    G W Zipper said: View Post
    How much of the SWIQ depends on the EU?
    None.

    G W Zipper said: View Post
    How much credit would I get for refusing to call the movie first seen in 1977 "A New Hope", or "Episode IV", but instead simply "Star Wars"?
    Lots.
  14. joshvanrad's Avatar
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    Feb 12, 2018, 2:52 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #114

    Everyone knows people in Hollywood are super trustworthy and they should be taken at face value. Just ask Harvey Weinstein.
  15. The Wook is offline The Wook
    Feb 12, 2018, 2:56 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #115

    Axlotl said: View Post
    None.


    Lots.
    @G W Zipper, Lol, I gotta fly out the door right now so I will reply to your post later. But in the meantime, you can rest assured that one of the highest-SWIQ members on our site (and therefore, in the world!), Axlotl, has correctly answered two of your questions.

    Get back at ya soon. lol

    The Wook
  16. The Wook is offline The Wook
    Feb 12, 2018, 6:07 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #116

    G W Zipper said: View Post
    I'm so happy the SWIQ is back. How would I judge my own SWIQ? Have you created some sort of test? How much of the SWIQ depends on the EU? How much credit would I get for refusing to call the movie first seen in 1977 "A New Hope", or "Episode IV", but instead simply "Star Wars"?

    I know this is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but this should be a real thing, on its own thread. We could then post our SWIQ in our signatures so others could know how seriously our opinions should be taken. Or better yet, the SWIQ placement could be a higher level, admin type thing so everybody would be all-in.
    SWIQ never left. It always will be. And it always has been. (Well, since 5/25/77, that is.)

    Just as a reminder, SWIQ is a measurement (perhaps more accurately, a "valuation") of someone's Star Wars Intelligence Quotient. Someone's SWIQ is comprised of two types of knowledge. One, being more, names, dates and places. An example of this is knowing that many Bothans died stealing the plans to the second Death Star, not the first. And two, is a knowledge of what things do and do not belong in a Star Wars film. An example of this is knowing that the SE change which had Han fire on Greedo only after being shot at, dramatically altered (wussified) his character.

    Every big fan of Star Wars has a SWIQ, which he deems to be extremely high, relative to the absolute standard of SWIQ, as established by Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back theatrical cuts, the two masterpieces in the franchise.

    But there is no standardized test for measuring someone's SWIQ. A fan's SWIQ is not measured quantitatively (e.g. 88 out of 100). It's measured qualitatively (e.g. high, moderate, low). But, every time we engage a fellow Star Wars fan in a discussion about Star Wars, we make judgments about their SWIQ. Even if a person doesn't call it, "SWIQ", he's judging that other person's SWIQ the entire time. We ALL do it. EVERY time.

    So SWIQ should not offend anyone. It's just a means to characterize a fellow fan's knowledge and understanding of Star Wars. Every big fan of Star Wars should think he possesses a high SWIQ. Not every fan is correct in thinking so, however. Because an absolute standard of SWIQ does exist, and if Tom and Bill are arguing over the Poe/Hux Yo Momma gag--Tom saying it's funny and befitting a Star Wars film, and Bill saying it's cringe worthy and has no place in a Star Wars film--only one of those two fans is right. Tom thinks Bill has a low SWIQ for criticizing the joke, and Bill thinks Tom has a low SWIQ for finding it funny and appropriate for Star Wars. They both can't be right, because there is an absolute standard. (For the record, in this made-up example, Bill is right and possesses a higher SWIQ than Tom.)

    Axlotl is correct, the EU does not factor into SWIQ. And yes, if you hear a man refer to the first SW movie to be released by its original title, Star Wars, and not A New Hope, that is the sign of a man with a high SWIQ. (Sometimes I use the ANH acronym for expedience, but I try not to.)

    Well, as there are no numeric values to SWIQ, we can't put them in our signatures. But, I do think we should have a pair of buttons next to the "Like this post" button: "High-SWIQ", and, "Low-SWIQ". Because, you know, sometimes a "Like" button just isn't enough. lol

    The Wook
  17. G W Zipper's Avatar
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    Feb 12, 2018, 6:27 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #117

    The Wook said: View Post
    SWIQ never left. It always will be. And it always has been. (Well, since 5/25/77, that is.)

    Just as a reminder, SWIQ is a measurement (perhaps more accurately, a "valuation") of someone's Star Wars Intelligence Quotient. Someone's SWIQ is comprised of two types of knowledge. One, being more, names, dates and places. An example of this is knowing that many Bothans died stealing the plans to the second Death Star, not the first. And two, is a knowledge of what things do and do not belong in a Star Wars film. An example of this is knowing that the SE change which had Han fire on Greedo only after being shot at, dramatically altered (wussified) his character.

    Every big fan of Star Wars has a SWIQ, which he deems to be extremely high, relative to the absolute standard of SWIQ, as established by Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back theatrical cuts, the two masterpieces in the franchise.

    But there is no standardized test for measuring someone's SWIQ. A fan's SWIQ is not measured quantitatively (e.g. 88 out of 100). It's measured qualitatively (e.g. high, moderate, low). But, every time we engage a fellow Star Wars fan in a discussion about Star Wars, we make judgments about their SWIQ. Even if a person doesn't call it, "SWIQ", he's judging that other person's SWIQ the entire time. We ALL do it. EVERY time.

    So SWIQ should not offend anyone. It's just a means to characterize a fellow fan's knowledge and understanding of Star Wars. Every big fan of Star Wars should think he possesses a high SWIQ. Not every fan is correct in thinking so, however. Because an absolute standard of SWIQ does exist, and if Tom and Bill are arguing over the Poe/Hux Yo Momma gag--Tom saying it's funny and befitting a Star Wars film, and Bill saying it's cringe worthy and has no place in a Star Wars film--only one of those two fans is right. Tom thinks Bill has a low SWIQ for criticizing the joke, and Bill thinks Tom has a low SWIQ for finding it funny and appropriate for Star Wars. They both can't be right, because there is an absolute standard. (For the record, in this made-up example, Bill is right and possesses a higher SWIQ than Tom.)

    Axlotl is correct, the EU does not factor into SWIQ. And yes, if you hear a man refer to the first SW movie to be released by its original title, Star Wars, and not A New Hope, that is the sign of a man with a high SWIQ. (Sometimes I use the ANH acronym for expedience, but I try not to.)

    Well, as there are no numeric values to SWIQ, we can't put them in our signatures. But, I do think we should have a pair of buttons next to the "Like this post" button: "High-SWIQ", and, "Low-SWIQ". Because, you know, sometimes a "Like" button just isn't enough. lol

    The Wook
    Of course, there are subjects that those regarded to have a high SWIQ may disagree on - but conversely there are widely held views within the general public that those with high SWIQ can rally around and agree are just plain wrong. Greedo shooting first (or at all), for example.

    I recall great angst a while back around this subject. Me, I find it quite entertaining - much more so than what a lot of topics have devolved into lately. Really, I'd love to see this take life as its own thread, but it should be authored by the father of the concept.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
  18. The Wook is offline The Wook
    Feb 12, 2018, 7:27 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #118

    G W Zipper said: View Post
    Of course, there are subjects that those regarded to have a high SWIQ may disagree on.
    That is true. Two high-SWIQ individuals can disagree--but those occasions will be rare. Because whenever there is a disagreement, that means one person is right and one person is wrong. And since both individuals, to use your example, possess a high SWIQ, that means that each individual is rarely wrong. Which, in turn, means that they rarely disagree with each other.

    G W Zipper said: View Post
    I recall great angst a while back around this subject. Me, I find it quite entertaining - much more so than what a lot of topics have devolved into lately. Really, I'd love to see this take life as its own thread, but it should be authored by the father of the concept.
    Glad to hear it. I find it fascinating, too. As for a thread specifically for discussion of SWIQ? lol Perhaps. Lemme think about it.

    The Wook
  19. G W Zipper's Avatar
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    Feb 12, 2018, 7:44 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #119

    The Wook said: View Post
    That is true. Two high-SWIQ individuals can disagree--but those occasions will be rare. Because whenever there is a disagreement, that means one person is right and one person is wrong. And since both individuals, to use your example, possess a high SWIQ, that means that each individual is rarely wrong. Which, in turn, means that they rarely disagree with each other.



    Glad to hear it. I find it fascinating, too. As for a thread specifically for discussion of SWIQ? lol Perhaps. Lemme think about it.

    The Wook
    Lots of questions - but I'll save them for the SWIQ thread.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
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    Feb 12, 2018, 10:28 PM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #120

    SethS said: View Post
    I feel like I should follow what I said with a little explanation about what exactly an EP does...
    This was a fantastic post. A quick question; you say that KK would have been a part of the creative process - would that mean in terms of being an actual "idea person", or merely greenlighting/quashing others (writer/director) ideas? And would she then be involved in "on the fly" decisions? As a hypothetical example: <After a hallucinogenic dream, RJ awakens and thinks "Oh man, I should have Leia, like, channel the force after being blown into space, and totally force-drift back to the ship. Duuude, this is going to be epic">...would he be expected to "check in" to have something like that okayed? (Assuming it didn't affect the overall narrative - if, say, the script at that point still had her surviving the blast, regardless - but it's merely a moment of "optical" significance)?

    Just curious as to how closely the folks up the ladder are tied to the details. Only using that example because it's a polarizing moment in a film; not trying to pile on TLJ or anything (it's just easy).

    And as far as that goes, it sounds like she has had a good track record for a long time (which I only know from your post!); do you think being part of a team (with great creative minds around you), is a much different animal than if you're the point-person for a project? Maybe even just in terms of a "blazing your own trail" kind of thing?
    Last edited by Keycube; Feb 12, 2018 at 11:09 PM.
  21. SethS's Avatar
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    Feb 13, 2018, 12:08 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #121

    Keycube said: View Post
    This was a fantastic post. A quick question; you say that KK would have been a part of the creative process - would that mean in terms of being an actual "idea person", or merely greenlighting/quashing others (writer/director) ideas?
    Both. In development it's not unusual for there to be several EPs involved in brainstorming sessions. Here's the transcript I was talking about-- Kennedy wasn't in this one, but you have Spielberg as director, Kasdan as writer, and Lucas as EP.

    http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scrip...erence1978.pdf

    This is how development meetings go, and there will be several of them. When Kennedy was looking for somebody to do Episode 8 I'm sure she met with several people. Ahead of the meeting, they were likely told what was going to happen in TFA (at the time) and then each writer/director would come in and give their take. Rian came in, and pitched his general ideas, where he wanted to take the characters, etc. After getting the job, but before writing, there would be several development meetings to iron things out. Generally, a writer will go from their pitch, to a more detailed treatment, to a revised treatment, to a detailed outline, with notes and meetings from producers between each step. So before Rian has written a single word, Kennedy, and likely Abrams and Kasdan and Kinberg, would all offer up notes. Notes can be anything from "you should give that character a sibling that dies in the first act" to "what if we killed off this character here?" They could be the tiniest of details, or huge changes to the arc. When you hear about movies in "development hell" they are stuck in this phase where the EPs are never satisfied and continue to give notes to the writer who generally gets burnt out. So before a single script page is written, the EPs are essentially workshopping the treatments with the writer, so it's 100% a creative job. And as workshops go-- maiking small changes a nd ideas can often lead to bigger idea. This is how TV writer's rooms work generally.

    Keycube said: View Post
    And would she then be involved in "on the fly" decisions? As a hypothetical example: <After a hallucinogenic dream, RJ awakens and thinks "Oh man, I should have Leia, like, channel the force after being blown into space, and totally force-drift back to the ship. Duuude, this is going to be epic">...would he be expected to "check in" to have something like that okayed? (Assuming it didn't affect the overall narrative - if, say, the script at that point still had her surviving the blast, regardless - but it's merely a moment of "optical" significance)?
    It depends to some extent. I don't know if she is on set for the entire shoot, or portions of it, or what. I was working on a movie at Pinewood while TFA was shooting. We were literally next door to their offices and stages and despite that I ever saw a damn thing... except for Kennedy's golf cart parked outside of my office window. So I know she was there for a good portion of it. It seems like, for better or worse, her jam is to hire people she thinks she can trust to go with the flow. A director has free reign generally try different things, but with Star Wars, when everything is tired to set-pieces and FX sequences that have an army of people already working on them, you have to be pretty locked into the script.

    If she's not on set, there's a producer there whose singular job is to report back. This is how the original Solo directors were let go. They were straying from the script too much.

    In general, most of the time a director will get coverage for what's in the script, and then a lot a little time for alternate takes, improving, or experimenting (time permitting). This is how we got the "I love you..." "I know." moment. Big changes always have to be a call with the EP and/or studio if they aren't there.

    Keycube said: View Post
    Just curious as to how closely the folks up the ladder are tied to the details. Only using that example because it's a polarizing moment in a film; not trying to pile on TLJ or anything (it's just easy). And as far as that goes, it sounds like she has had a good track record for a long time (which I only know from your post!); do you think being part of a team (with great creative minds around you), is a much different animal than if you're the point-person for a project? Maybe even just in terms of a "blazing your own trail" kind of thing?
    On the average film there's always a producer on set protecting the studio's interest. Directors are generally hired for their ideas. On a ,movie like Star Wars, with so many moving pieces and so much money on the line, there's not a ton of room for experimenting and Kennedy wouldn't likely be taken by surprise by anything.
  22. gedmac66's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2016
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    Perth, Western Australia
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    Feb 13, 2018, 6:59 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #122

    Thanks again for sharing your knowledge regarding this process @SethS .

    So , basically ( correct me if I’m wrong ) what you’re saying is that everyone of Note at LF and Disney , ( the powers that be essentially ) were aware of what these ‘ planned ‘ films being made would become ( being greenlit ) - from start to finish - , for the movie going public ... and Longtime Fans of the series !?

    If that’s really how it happened , then all I can say is .... Wow ... Unbelievable ... and ... Why !? Especially , the disconnect between Ep VII and VIII ,... and No I don’t hate TLJ ,... I just don’t understand it !

    Ged
    Last edited by gedmac66; Feb 13, 2018 at 7:10 AM.
  23. Keycube's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2013
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    Michigan
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    Feb 13, 2018, 8:35 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #123

    I just want to say real quickly how awesome this site is. There are more populated such sites, but none as informative and inquisitive. The bickering is born of passion, and it's no where near as bad as some sites (with the ad hominem stuff), and there's no mods needlessly inserting themselves into situations (I'm looking at you, Jedi Council board).

    It's like there's at least one person around here to play every significant role, like a good sitcom. Nice and balanced.

    Carry on!
  24. Greenie's Avatar
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    Feb 13, 2018, 8:52 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #124

    The Wook said: View Post
    That is true. Two high-SWIQ individuals can disagree--but those occasions will be rare. Because whenever there is a disagreement, that means one person is right and one person is wrong. And since both individuals, to use your example, possess a high SWIQ, that means that each individual is rarely wrong. Which, in turn, means that they rarely disagree with each other.



    Glad to hear it. I find it fascinating, too. As for a thread specifically for discussion of SWIQ? lol Perhaps. Lemme think about it.

    The Wook
    Here’s a question for ya Wook. Am I right to pass judgement on anyone who incorrectly uses the acronym ESB instead of TESB?
  25. The Wook is offline The Wook
    Feb 13, 2018, 9:02 AM - Re: New Star Wars films from Game of Thrones duo #125

    Greenie said: View Post
    Here’s a question for ya Wook. Am I right to pass judgement on anyone who incorrectly uses the acronym ESB instead of TESB?
    Lol...pass judgment on them, by all means...if that offends you.

    But it is not a reflection of their SWIQ. It is a reflection of your pedantry.

    The Wook

    ps~Unless, of course, they are unaware that the full film title begins with a, "The". Then their SWIQ will take a hit for that kind of ignorance, no doubt. But I'd guess that 99% of the people who say or type, "ESB", do in fact know that the full film title is, "The Empire Strikes Back". ESB certainly rolls off the tongue better than TESB. And in writing, it's one less keystroke.

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