How Do You Make a Good Star Wars Movie?

Just a stray thought, I know it's really not well regarded, so not sure if it answers how a good Star Wars film is made but Willow captures Star Wars-iness pretty wel without any cues, visuals and etc that would relate to Star Wars.

Here's a couple of rules I would follow:
-the genre is space opera. Stick to that. We don't need a "dark star wars story about the grittiness of war" any more than we need a sexy star wars story. Let the video games do the Hurt locker aspects of this

-understand that (unlike every other tentpole franchise out there, besides the fast and the furious) the films are the source material, build upon that. And take it seriously. You don't get a do-over. When you plan a trilogy, get one person to oversee them and perhaps....film them all at once like Jackson did for LOTR

-Do not discount the Fact that George Lucas is the creator of this Galaxy. Do not try to burn his legacy down. Learn everything you can from him. If it weren't for George, film would be a whole different thing.

-Accept the prequels and the clone wars. Doing a film while embracing the prequels isn't the same thing as doing a bad film. Hell, I think the ST would have been MUCH better if they occurred during a time of Grand Galactic stability. Embrace coruscant as a location. There's a lot of history there.

Bryancd said:

I do and I think there is a degree of inevitability that it will happen based on the planned content release schedule. You still need the little things to make it feel in universe, a speeder, and old Y-wing flying by, an Ithorian in a pub, but beyond that SW can live beyond The Force, the Skywalkers, etc. In fact I think Rian might be exploring that opportunity as we speak.

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I don’t understand SW living beyond The Force part of this statement ? If the ‘ Force ‘ isn’t represented in some way ( big or small ) in a Star Wars film , why call it Star Wars ?

Why not not call it something else ... anything else ? ... It’d just be another sci - fi film wouldn’t it ? After all , the Force is strong in Star Wars films ! ... it’s what makes SW = Star Wars .

I do a lot of thinking about TFA, because although I found it highly entertaining (I saw it more times at the theatre than any other SW film), I don't find it all that re-watchable at home...

The rehash argument about TFA is real, there's no skirting that. BUT, what it does do very cleverly, is take those familiar elements, and now weave this tapestry of mystery around them. Who is Rey? Is she a Skywalker? Solo? Neither? What really happened with Ben? Is he even responsible for what we're hearing about him? Did Han literally hold his fate in his hands on the catwalk? Why did Ben lose that saber fight? What's with the Knights of Ren? Who is Snoke? I mean, one could go on and on; the forums were blowing up for months.

TFA wasn't a movie born of the deep creative recesses of JJ's mind, obviously. But it got people thinking, even non-Star Wars people I saw the movie with. The mysteries were interesting and transcended genre. And, IMHO, the characters all totally sold their roles. Rey was a great new female hero figure (IMHO), and that felt fresh and exciting. Ironically, it felt like Star Wars, but the plot could have been infused into any generic fantasy backdrop, and it still would have worked for me.

So, the multiple viewings thing. I think what's going on there, is that when I saw it at the theatre, I saw it with someone new each time, and was anxious to share these new characters and their mysteries. Now, on DVD, I'm less inspired to watch the film because those mysteries are firmly impressed within my mind, and I don't need to see the movie anymore to feel fulfilled.

I'm not saying TFA was a great movie, but it worked really well almost in spite of itself, and was the perfect "first chapter" that could relate to both children (charismatic new characters, BB-8, subtle humor, good flow) AND adults (old-school charm, father-son dynamics, ones past determining their present/future).

It was almost a "Choose your adventure" type of thing (that you see in video games) that you could play in your mind, and that part of the movie felt really cerebral; and it combined that with simple concepts you made your own. I'm a fan of the first Blair Witch movie, and I feel that movie works because it plays off of the most basic of fears - being lost and alone. Everyone can relate to that. TFA worked for me in the same way, and while I'm sure it couldn't have got away with what it did if it were a stand-alone film, I do appreciate the way it lets you have to do some homework to really appreciate it; it allows you to take some ownership of it, even. I think that approach can be applied to any (SW) film.

gedmac66 said:

I don’t understand SW living beyond The Force part of this statement ? If the ‘ Force ‘ isn’t represented in some way ( big or small ) in a Star Wars film , why call it Star Wars ?

Why not not call it something else ... anything else ? ... It’d just be another sci - fi film wouldn’t it ? After all , the Force is strong in Star Wars films ! ... it’s what makes SW = Star Wars .

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My suggestion is that the inclusion or exclusion of the Force as a story construct shouldn’t be a limiting factor. Arguably there was no use of the Force in R1 although it was referenced.

Pretty sure I remember Vader using it somewhat , and the blind monk (?) convincingly channeling it too !

You’re right , it shouldn’t be a limiting factor story wise - though at the same time , if it’s a Star Wars film - it shouldn’t be dismissed either IMO .

Mr Webber said:

If someone can point out to me where I have slammed TLJ anywhere in this thread apart from my very honest opening statement about Rian Johnson, i would love to see it. Total over reaction. Try checking out some of the comments in my threads that I have let slide without totally throwing all the toys out of the cot. Added to that some other people always seem to get their two bits in as well when its not needed.

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You gave a glib response that was the same as what you were saying in other threads. My reaction was basically an eyeroll. Being called on it, you doubled down on it and went with the "no seriously" angle. When I tried to move on, you posted again. Somebody else came in and piggy-backed on you by adding politics to it, which always pushes my buttons. I responded to that-- maybe unfairly lumping you in with him-- and then, as usual when I push back against a conservative blowhard on this site, I get reported and a mod comes in and deletes a bunch of posts, including a couple of yours.

Then you say I'm overreacting-- and yet, instead of moving on, you're still drudging it up. It's like you pathologically just HAVE to derail this thread. If anything you're overreacting to what is basically me calling you out on responding in a redactive glib way to something I put thought into. Yes it annoys me, but I'm hardly crying myself to sleep over it.

In favor of the thread, feel free to PM me if you want to debate it more! I'm really not that upset, it just seems like by calling you on some BS you now want to argue everything I say.

But I totally get it. I'm pretty sure my first decade online was dedicated to talking smack about the PT and trying to ruin it for anybody who enjoyed them. We've all been there.

sztriki said:

My main point was that Seth perpetuating this back-and-forth which was based on a single comment of yours is really counterproductive in keeping his original intents on track.

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Well... it is the internet... If you can't argue with somebody over something unimportant what's the point!?

Darctic said:

Where the current movies in my opinion fall short is that they rely to heavily on some visual cues and the idea that "New is better" When you take a character like Luke who had a great narrative and write him in a different way that's going to change the character.

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Let's fight about this!

I agree with respecting character and their arcs-- but I think being afraid of NEW is a bad thing. Change is good. I know as fans we don't like change, but without it, things will get stale quicker than we realize.

edge10 said:

Like most bad ideas, midi-whatevers were left on the cutting room floor (or didn't even make it in the script), in the OT.

As for needing something to measure: Vader could sense the Force in Luke between two speeding fighters.

If you wish to keep arguing this point, feel free to do so by yourself.

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As much as I love the Rinzler books, there's a bit of revisionist history in them, and they frame Uncle George as infallible. Regardless of when they were invented, Midichlorians were basically a cheat he came up with to tell us that Anakin was special. He tried to key them into this symbiosis theme that was happening in TPM, but it fell sort of flat-- and as we've all heard a million times, it makes The Force seem less mystical and most people dislike that.

laszlo said:

Star Wars is a simplistic yet rich coming of age morality tale.
There must be fearsome evil baddies and there must be heroes that grow to become the goodies.
You cannot have the main protagonist of a Star Wars film murdering their way through their opponents if there is any moral ambiguity - that is not appropriate for a kids film.
TLJ tried to add this moral nuance to Star Wars and it doesn't work in a kids space war film - there needs to be theatrical ethical boundaries. Myths have never reflected real life - they are metaphors and learning parables, not social commentary.

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You bring up a great topic actually-- WHO should Star Wars be made for. As much as I detest the PT, my son was always a fan equally of the OT and PT. SW has always been a family film-- and a common defense of the PT was that "you grew up, it's not SW's fault."

There's no denying that my favorite SW films are the darker ones. It's also funny to see as my son gets older, he sees the PT as more and more inferior.

Should Star Wars still be for the whole family? Should it be aged up for us fans who grew up on the OT? Should they start shifting the tone of individual movies for different demographics?

sztriki said:

Just a stray thought, I know it's really not well regarded, so not sure if it answers how a good Star Wars film is made but Willow captures Star Wars-iness pretty wel without any cues, visuals and etc that would relate to Star Wars.

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100%

I'd argue that the Indiana Jones movies do as well. As much as there is an "Amblin" vibe from the era, I think there is a "Lucasfilm" vibe from the same time period, even if it was really just about two franchises.

Keycube said:

I do a lot of thinking about TFA, because although I found it highly entertaining (I saw it more times at the theatre than any other SW film), I don't find it all that re-watchable at home...

The rehash argument about TFA is real, there's no skirting that. BUT, what it does do very cleverly, is take those familiar elements, and now weave this tapestry of mystery around them. Who is Rey? Is she a Skywalker? Solo? Neither? What really happened with Ben? Is he even responsible for what we're hearing about him? Did Han literally hold his fate in his hands on the catwalk? Why did Ben lose that saber fight? What's with the Knights of Ren? Who is Snoke? I mean, one could go on and on; the forums were blowing up for months.

TFA wasn't a movie born of the deep creative recesses of JJ's mind, obviously. But it got people thinking, even non-Star Wars people I saw the movie with. The mysteries were interesting and transcended genre. And, IMHO, the characters all totally sold their roles. Rey was a great new female hero figure (IMHO), and that felt fresh and exciting. Ironically, it felt like Star Wars, but the plot could have been infused into any generic fantasy backdrop, and it still would have worked for me.

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I think your whole post was apt, but this part in particular gets to the core of how I feel about TFA as well.

Greenie said:

Characters that you can relate to. Characters that you can aspire to. Characters that you are attracted to..........and a big space battle!

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The reluctant hero is, in most cases, a winner! It's a hero that most people can relate and even aspire to be.... that and lots of explosions, laser weapons, fights and hyperspace!

The mythology behind Star Wars is what has always fascinated me. The work that Jung and Campbell did with the collective unconscious (it is obviously valid, as here we are), and how George tapped into that with his original SW (1977) I think is something that we won't ever see again in our lifetime. There have been many, many films that have used the Hero's Journey as their backbone, and while some are decently good, they just don't resonate with people as SW did back in '77. Indeed, the Hero's Journey is almost a joke nowadays, a trope in and of itself.

You can have the "used universe" feel, you can have all of the mythical archetypes included, but at the end of the day, it's (maybe) just a worthy successor. A flattering imitation.

I think that what I'd like to see is a $10 million Star Wars movie again. Shoot it quick and dirty, fast and cheap. For the stuff that you don't have the money to actually SHOW on the screen, you can imply. Allude to it in an off-handed way with a throw-away line of dialogue. The Clone Wars? Yeah, I fought with your dad fought in the Clone Wars. Cool.

SB

Totally agree-- the forced ingenuity of ANH is what made it magical in part. Runaway budgets where the sky is the limit are a bad thing for movies. Parameters and forced cleverness are where real magic happens I think.

StevenBills said:

I think that what I'd like to see is a $10 million Star Wars movie again. Shoot it quick and dirty, fast and cheap. For the stuff that you don't have the money to actually SHOW on the screen, you can imply. Allude to it in an off-handed way with a throw-away line of dialogue. The Clone Wars? Yeah, your dad fought in the Clone Wars. Cool.

SB

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I would love to see this ! As much as l enjoyed the PT overall , I think it suffered visually due to the ‘ excess use ‘ of whatever new techniques/ technologies were available , as opposed to the less is more philosophy .
GL was always a visionary when it came to the art of film , but he really did capture ‘ lightning ‘ in a bottle with Star Wars in ‘ 77 , considering all the documented trials and tribulations it suffered just to make it onto the screen . Everything that followed , was built on that initial struggle .
Try capturing that , ... then maybe ..

Give me a $10m Star Wars movie . . . but with no bad CGI allowed. All the CGI has to be either top-notch or else they have to get the effect done some other way.

I could make a Star Wars movie for half a million.

You have a small team of Rebels on the far side of Yavin fixing a sensor relay. They lose contact with home base when their speeder, parked on a precipice, accidentally goes over the edge and is destroyed. They see the Death Star in orbit and have no idea what to do. A short time later, a tie fighter crashes in the distance. The go through the jungle to find it, hoping it has a radio or is operation enough to get back to base.

The tie fighter is empty and ruined. They start the long hike back to base, and one by one they are picked off by something dark and evil in the night jungle. Spoiler-- it's Vader. So basically, Friday the 13th in the Star Wars universe.

I'm half serious.

No great revelation here but on a strictly visceral level, Star Wars never "feels" like Star Wars to me without the music of John Williams. Seeing Rogue One really brought that home (which is not meant as a knock on Rogue One, I respect that it tried to do something unique).

But I've often wondered if the OT movies would have resonated with audiences as deeply as they did without Williams. I don't think you can overestimate the emotional heft and complexity he added to those movies. When the time comes and he's not able to perform that task, the new filmmakers will have some tough decisions to make regarding future scores. Do they go for some familiar imitation or strike out in a new direction?

Great point!

How did you feel about the music in Rogue One?

SethS said:

Great point!

How did you feel about the music in Rogue One?

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Not directed at me but I'll chime in anyway - Rogue One's soundtrack was almost completely forgettable, IMO. In fact, the only parts of the movie that really stick out for me are the parts that use OT music. Namely, the Rebel fleet coming out of hyperspace over Scarif and beginning their attack. That was Star Wars.

It's too bad, really. I'm a fan of Giacchino's work - and given his obvious love for Williams - I expected more from this one (yes, even though he was brought in at the last minute).

I felt the same.

To be fair though, I found TFA and TLJ to be pretty forgettable too. In fact, I can only think of Rey's theme off the top of my head.

SethS said:

I could make a Star Wars movie for half a million.

You have a small team of Rebels on the far side of Yavin fixing a sensor relay. They lose contact with home base when their speeder, parked on a precipice, accidentally goes over the edge and is destroyed. They see the Death Star in orbit and have no idea what to do. A short time later, a tie fighter crashes in the distance. The go through the jungle to find it, hoping it has a radio or is operation enough to get back to base.

The tie fighter is empty and ruined. They start the long hike back to base, and one by one they are picked off by something dark and evil in the night jungle. Spoiler-- it's Vader. So basically, Friday the 13th in the Star Wars universe.

I'm half serious.

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Take my money.

SethS said:

Great point!

How did you feel about the music in Rogue One?

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You know, I think the initial problem was that I would perk up every time there was a snippet from one of the OT themes. It made me want to hear those full themes again! But I started to enjoy what Giacchino did more on the third viewing, it just took some adjusting.

SethS said:

...In fact, I can only think of Rey's theme off the top of my head.

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Curse you! Now I'll have that rubbish theme stuck in my head all day.

(Not sarcasm - I hate that theme with the fury of a thousand dying suns. It makes me want to go on a chainsaw rampage at the puppy farm)