How Do You Make a Good Star Wars Movie?
- Thread starter SethS
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Darth Lars
Master Member
I prefer to think of midichlorians as simply being microorganisms that thrive in force-sensitive individuals. A high midichlorian count would be an indicator that you are strong in The Force or that you have used The Force a lot ... but a low midichlorian count would mean nothing: you may be strong in The Force and never subjected to midichlorians in the first place.
Edit: The point of midichlorians was only to show that Anakin was strong in the force. It was a cheap way out. GL could have told it some other way but he was lazy. That's all there is.
Anyway, this video has another explanation: :facepalm
Edit: The point of midichlorians was only to show that Anakin was strong in the force. It was a cheap way out. GL could have told it some other way but he was lazy. That's all there is.
Anyway, this video has another explanation: :facepalm
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Same thing you need for any great movie.
At some point you have story to tell. A story you love. Then you begin crafting to tell that story.
If you try it in a different order, example: saying "we're going to make a movie, let's craft a story for it" It's Unlikely to work as well.
Once upon a time Lucas has a story to tell and set about telling it. The process has been backwards pretty much ever since. It can still be good, and sometimes is, but it'll never have the same heart if you're trying to craft a story to fit the movie needs, rather than craft a movie to tell the story.
At some point you have story to tell. A story you love. Then you begin crafting to tell that story.
If you try it in a different order, example: saying "we're going to make a movie, let's craft a story for it" It's Unlikely to work as well.
Once upon a time Lucas has a story to tell and set about telling it. The process has been backwards pretty much ever since. It can still be good, and sometimes is, but it'll never have the same heart if you're trying to craft a story to fit the movie needs, rather than craft a movie to tell the story.
DeLano80
Sr Member
I won't go deep on this. But I wish they would have a better balance between seriousness and the hammy "jokes" I think many parts in the new movies were great. But some of the silly things that were said or done put me off. I am looking at you Porg-bird things!!! I think Rogue One was excellent for being a more serious movie. It is my favorite so far. I just wish they would make Star Wars for adults. They do not, they make it for everyone and I get that. I suppose Star Wars does not belong to me. I belongs to people like my 8 year old boy, who loves all the movies without bias or expectations.
To me there are a few elements that define Star Wars from other franchises.
One is that Star Wars has characters that are clearly defined as either good or evil. While there may be some morally ambiguous characters (Han Solo) they aren't so gray in nature so as to make them undefinable.
Two is that it borrows heavily from the mythic underpinnings that Joseph Campbell outlined in The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Without a mythic theme it is just like any other sci-fi action adventure. THIS more than ANYTHING ELSE is why this franchise is still as powerful 40 years later as it was when it was first released. It's the sole reason that it will continue to stand the test of time and will be beloved for generations to come because it speaks to our own human nature in a way that can't always be defined in words alone.
Three. It was fun. Just good old fashioned fun. Despite having serious themes and darker elements, these things were all balanced with one another to deliver an uplifting and entertaining experience for movie goers.
Whether any of the future films can make this formula work is up for debate, but honestly to me, those three elements are what make Star Wars, Star Wars.
One is that Star Wars has characters that are clearly defined as either good or evil. While there may be some morally ambiguous characters (Han Solo) they aren't so gray in nature so as to make them undefinable.
Two is that it borrows heavily from the mythic underpinnings that Joseph Campbell outlined in The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Without a mythic theme it is just like any other sci-fi action adventure. THIS more than ANYTHING ELSE is why this franchise is still as powerful 40 years later as it was when it was first released. It's the sole reason that it will continue to stand the test of time and will be beloved for generations to come because it speaks to our own human nature in a way that can't always be defined in words alone.
Three. It was fun. Just good old fashioned fun. Despite having serious themes and darker elements, these things were all balanced with one another to deliver an uplifting and entertaining experience for movie goers.
Whether any of the future films can make this formula work is up for debate, but honestly to me, those three elements are what make Star Wars, Star Wars.
Brent M
Sr Member
I will just add that one thing I think is essential to a good SW movie is the villain. Vader, The Emperor, Darth Maul, Kylo Ren....SW is known for some of the most iconic villains of all time and it's no coincidence that the worst movie of the franchise(AOTC) also has the weakest villain in Count Dooku. I'd also say that The Last Jedi suffers greatly from Kylo Ren being made much less ominous than he was in The Force Awakens. Most of the time it didn't feel like he was the bad guy or that the film even had one. Huge mistake IMHO.
sztriki
Sr Member
That's not to defend Mr Webber, because I don't think you're wrong in aiming at not turning it to a TLJ-bash. But there was plenty of valid comments and on-topic suggestions in this thread that are left without any follow-up comment or discussion and the majority of your replies are aimed at him. You're basically playing tug-of-war instead of actually engaging in discussion or reacting to "on-topic" comments. So I'm not sure who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him...
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Mr Webber
Master Member
If someone can point out to me where I have slammed TLJ anywhere in this thread apart from my very honest opening statement about Rian Johnson, i would love to see it. Total over reaction. Try checking out some of the comments in my threads that I have let slide without totally throwing all the toys out of the cot. Added to that some other people always seem to get their two bits in as well when its not needed.
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I’ve been liking comments— I didn’t want to direct things and I was just sitting back and listening (reading) after saying my piece to see where the conversation went. I just stepped in when I felt it was being highjacked in a not-constructive way.
But yes— There’s great responses here. It seems like people mostly want characters that hit the mark, which is totally legit. One of the great things about Luke is that despite being an interstellar adventurer that becomes a space Samurai, his basic motivations and drives and character in ANH is super relatable and grounded.
great thread SethS , And yeahit's going to spark reactions from both sides.. I think that at its roots SW shouldn't be looked at from movie to movie installment. The grand story arc of the OT is what helped its concistency imo.
When GL made the prequels, he also had that, but at that point he had the success of the other star wars movies on his hand. A fresh approach isn't necessarily bad, though you need visual cues to complete that for the current day.
Where the current movies in my opinion fall short is that they rely to heavily on some visual cues and the idea that "New is better" When you take a character like Luke who had a great narrative and write him in a different way that's going to change the character.
The Original SW movies were written from a Saturday morning serial point of view. At least the first one was heavily influenced by that.
I think if you would want to make a better SW movie , you have to go back to those basics and not necessarily the OT SW movies.
When GL made the prequels, he also had that, but at that point he had the success of the other star wars movies on his hand. A fresh approach isn't necessarily bad, though you need visual cues to complete that for the current day.
Where the current movies in my opinion fall short is that they rely to heavily on some visual cues and the idea that "New is better" When you take a character like Luke who had a great narrative and write him in a different way that's going to change the character.
The Original SW movies were written from a Saturday morning serial point of view. At least the first one was heavily influenced by that.
I think if you would want to make a better SW movie , you have to go back to those basics and not necessarily the OT SW movies.
robn1
Master Member
Too late. The path the ST is on started with Jar Jar Abrams. Another member said a few years ago he'll do to Star Wars what he did to Star Trek, and he was right. And it ties in with what SethS said, instead of telling an original story with it's roots in the same legendary myths Jar Jar just remade ANH. It really is a reboot, he just started the same story over again, except he misses all the points of the original. He has the trappings right, the "visual cues", but without the substance.
sztriki
Sr Member
I don't disagree with you either, not in what you said originally and not in what your intentions were. I probably should have used quotation marks where it was appropriate. I've been to the aforementioned threads too and know what you mean.
My main point was that Seth perpetuating this back-and-forth which was based on a single comment of yours is really counterproductive in keeping his original intents on track.
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sztriki
Sr Member
I don't know, initially I was disappointed that TFA was an ANH rehash. I guess it was somewhat understandable that they made a safe movie. Was it too safe? Yep, no question. What it did do well is getting characters who could stand on their own feet and giving them motivations to be in the story. The prequels' biggest shortfall is that there is hardly any real character moment. They talk about all these things they've gone through but we're never shown, we're hardly compelled to feel anything for them because it's either nauseating CGI-orgy action sequence or boring flat uninteresting dialogue sequences they're in. Finn freaking out and defecting in the first act is written and directed perfectly fine to make him and his decision, feelings relatable. Seeing Rey doing her day-to-day stuff and longingly looking at the distance at the end of her day tells a story. Not the most original story, but at least something. I do think TFA missed a lot of opportunities but it also gave plenty of space to grow and branch out. I initially thought it was a really good idea to give 8 and 9 to individual filmmakers. It was then taken to another direction.
I've never been a Trekkie so I don't really have a frame of reference to the original stuff, but speaking of doing a Star Wars movie without the usual visuals and tropes, JJ's Star Trek felt like a Star Wars movie to me when I first saw it. Then the thing went quickly down with Into the Wrath of Khan, the main difference being is that the new Trek movies are not interconnected the way SW is. Just skip Darkness and jump to Beyond which I liked the most out of the three.
I still think they really need to move away from this initial conflict of the Empire vs Rebels (insert relevant iteration). It's really getting tiring and unrealistic that this massive galaxy-wide conflict has been raging on for 70 years and we still have Ackbar and Nien Numb and Leia and god knows who else still fighting this, while it's just stretched and stretched like a Saturday morning cartoon show.
Like most bad ideas, midi-whatevers were left on the cutting room floor (or didn't even make it in the script), in the OT.
As for needing something to measure: Vader could sense the Force in Luke between two speeding fighters.
If you wish to keep arguing this point, feel free to do so by yourself.
laszlo
Sr Member
Star Wars is a simplistic yet rich coming of age morality tale.
There must be fearsome evil baddies and there must be heroes that grow to become the goodies.
You cannot have the main protagonist of a Star Wars film murdering their way through their opponents if there is any moral ambiguity - that is not appropriate for a kids film.
TLJ tried to add this moral nuance to Star Wars and it doesn't work in a kids space war film - there needs to be theatrical ethical boundaries. Myths have never reflected real life - they are metaphors and learning parables, not social commentary.
There must be fearsome evil baddies and there must be heroes that grow to become the goodies.
You cannot have the main protagonist of a Star Wars film murdering their way through their opponents if there is any moral ambiguity - that is not appropriate for a kids film.
TLJ tried to add this moral nuance to Star Wars and it doesn't work in a kids space war film - there needs to be theatrical ethical boundaries. Myths have never reflected real life - they are metaphors and learning parables, not social commentary.
sztriki
Sr Member
This is what Rogue One flirted with too, add some greyness to the Rebel characters but I don't feel that it worked particularly well. Neither as an actual concept nor in execution. Someone was speculating at another forum about making a Game of Thrones-esque politically loaded Star Wars movie from the point of view of an imperial soldier, but I did think that this would be against the very essence of the "fairy-tale rubbish" of Star Wars.
matty matt
Sr Member
The technical achievements of the OT are an aspect that often gets overlooked. People had never seen anything like ANH when it came out. It's special effects made it, well, special. These days, it's really difficult to wow an audience visually. If Lucasfilm wants to make great Star Wars films, they need to hire innovators to come up with new techniques and push the limits of what's technically possible. The only guy I can think of who's really doing this is Cameron, and we have yet to see what his Avatar sequels will look like. Rogue One kind of touched on this with Tarkin, but they need to keep pushing.
laszlo
Sr Member
Yeah - What makes a good Star Wars movie feel like Star Wars is quite limiting in terms of story telling and concepts. So as Disney continues to mine all possible corners of the universe to keep their investment profitable this 'feel' will start to dissipate. Though I imagine once Disney roll out more films than Lucas ever did, this 'Star Warsyness" will change more and more in to generic Sci- Fi fantasy and become the new status quo.
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