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  1. George's Avatar
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    Jan 27, 2018, 6:17 PM - Re: Costume Appropriateness at Shows #26

    Yrien said: View Post
    It's disappointing that so many people still don't understand why this is a sensitive topic.
    I believe the topic is made sensitive because people tend to make problems.The problem originates not in cosplay,but in collective/individual Egos.Not pointing at you personally,just observing the world and all the different groups demanding this and that these days.Their Egos will never be satisfied because that is the definition of an Ego: unsatisfiable.

    The reason why cosplayers of colour might get upset seeing a Caucasian person dressed as Black Panther is that white people have so many options when it comes to cosplay.
    Anyone can cosplay as almost anyone or anything.Aside from that,the emotions of an individual or group shouldn't be made someone else's problem.They are for them to deal with.

    The vast majority of characters in movies and on TV are still white. The number of characters of colour is comparatively very limited.
    Things are changing for the better.Slower than desired,but they are changing.The fact that to some the pace is not fast enough,again,is their problem.The world is not here to meet individual/collective wish lists in order to become the world they demand it to be.But in due time it will become better for ALL of us.

    And while many of you have said that everyone should be able to cosplay anyone they want (which I definitely agree with!) the reality is that as soon as a person of colour cosplays a white character, they get called the "black" or "Asian" version of that character, and are harassed and derided for it. A (hopefully) small but vocal number of fans seem to hold the view that a person of colour cosplaying a white character is "ruining" the character somehow.
    There's no arguing about taste,but harassment should never be tolerated and should be reported to Con staff,and if I were ever to witness this sort of crap,I will step in.

    So, when a white person cosplays as a character of colour, it can be seen as them trying to steal that character. Even if the person is doing it from a place of respect, unfortunately our history is riddled with white culture stealing/appropriating elements of other cultures and then discriminating against those cultures for doing the same thing. White people don't get harassed for cosplaying characters of colour in the same way that people of colour are harassed for cosplaying white characters. By all means, cosplay who you want, but be prepared for people to get upset, and understand where that reaction is coming from. It's not racism, it's the fact that there are so few characters of colour that when a white person chooses to cosplay as a character of colour, the reaction is often, "you have so many characters that look like you already, why do you have to take this one too?"
    Steal a character? All characters 'belong' to Marvel/DC, not to a certain race or group.Cosplay is for everone.
    And the history of oppression of/by certain groups in the past should NOT be brought into the world of cosplay,because dressing up is of ALL times for ALL people,and it should be neutral terrain.This is EXACTLY what I meant when I said that conventions shouldn't become an arena or billboard of some sort for groups to settle their differences.Their collective/individual Egos are for THEM to deal with in their own time,in their own environment.Comic Conventions should be neutral terrain for everyone.Personal grievances should be left at home and dealt with through politics or justice system.

    I have debated over and over if I should post this. I'm a woman, so I know that by expressing a different view, or by calling someone out, I'm opening myself up to retaliation, insults, and harassment.
    I'm not sure what bad experiences you've had in the past,but this is the NOW.And we're just talking.No retaliation,no insults,no harassment,nothing.Relax.

    Oh and lastly, please don't advocate violence against someone who's expressing their views, even if it's one you don't agree with or think is an insult. If you feel that someone has done or said something inappropriate, report it to con security.
    Just like respect,that goes both ways.To threaten or be threatened is both wrong.And yes,that should both be reported.
    Last edited by George; Jan 27, 2018 at 7:39 PM.
  2. Iron Heart RPF Premium Member Sundowner's Avatar
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    Jan 27, 2018, 6:42 PM - Re: Costume Appropriateness at Shows #27

    There is no simple answer unfortunately. I feel that WE as a community understand but the general public may not. Especially the Tide Pod eating population...
  3. George's Avatar
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    Jan 27, 2018, 7:47 PM - Re: Costume Appropriateness at Shows #28

    No,but one's attitude as well as response to this phenomenon should be constructive.In other words: cosplay is about having fun at conventions/gatherings.
    If there's a (short term) problem that needs to be addressed at the convention,talk to the staff.
    If there's a structural problem,talk to (local) politicians/law enforcers in order to change the status quo.
    But don't turn conventions into 'moral battle fields' of duality that ruin the atmosphere and do not solve anything on both short and long term.If anything,these places and events should unite people in fandom.
  4. Yrien's Avatar
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    Jan 27, 2018, 11:46 PM - Re: Costume Appropriateness at Shows #29

    I feel like my message is getting lost/being misunderstood. I'm not saying things should be like this (i.e. people getting upset about what other people are choosing to cosplay). I'm saying this is the way it is, and like it or not we all live in this world, not some idealized version of how it should be. This means we have to deal with it how it is, not how it should be.

    The unfortunate truth is that cosplayers of colour are harassed for their cosplay choices, whether we think they should be or not, or whether we personally have seen it happen or not (a quick Google search on the topic should be enough to convince anyone that it does happen, whether you've seen/heard it or not). Cosplayers of colour are treated differently than white cosplayers. Therefore as much as we'd like this to have an easy answer (i.e. "let everyone cosplay anything they want") the real-life answer is more complicated. Yes, there's a double-standard, and while it's slowly getting better, it's still a problem and we need to work towards fixing it (especially us white people - I hope you all show the same level of support for cosplayers of colour when they're on the receiving end of harassment as you're showing here).

    Back to the actual topic, the original question was, "Do you think anyone would find that inappropriate / offensive?", and the answer is yes, some people will. It's the way our society is, not the way should be.

    I also can't help but notice that the responses in this thread seem to be overwhelmingly white and male. It would be nice to see some other views, since this is turning into a bit of an echo chamber.
  5. George's Avatar
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    Jan 28, 2018, 6:26 AM - Re: Costume Appropriateness at Shows #30

    I understood your message very well,except I have a different view on how to deal with situations.
    My suggestions in the previous post were meant to be practical,and yours seem to infinitely steer towards passive victimhood and demands of that group that should be adhered to,and that's where we go separate ways.

    I believe one should bring a costume to a comic con...and leave their Egos and pain at home,like I said,to be dealt with in a different manner at a different time.And certainly not feed them or make them worse by discussing them in a neutral place where costuming (!) and fandom are the main focus.Don't turn an event into a drama just because there are issues to be addressed (somewhere else!).
    And your last sentence seems to suggest you're the one thinking in stereotypes.

    Just to be clear: I'm all for fighting for equality for everyone everywhere,but not like this and certainly not on a playground for young and old that is meant to be a playground,not an arena.That's all I'm saying.
    Last edited by George; Jan 28, 2018 at 7:23 AM.
  6. RPF Premium Member AJTaliesen's Avatar
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    Jan 28, 2018, 11:52 AM - Re: Costume Appropriateness at Shows #31

    Yrien said: View Post
    I feel like my message is getting lost/being misunderstood. I'm not saying things should be like this (i.e. people getting upset about what other people are choosing to cosplay). I'm saying this is the way it is, and like it or not we all live in this world, not some idealized version of how it should be. This means we have to deal with it how it is, not how it should be.
    This is a bit ironic. I think the misunderstanding this time is on your end. I don't see anyone posting here who is denying reality. No one is disagreeing that it happens. We're disagreeing with your solution to the problem.

    Skin color does not dictate what you're allowed to wear. Some people DO disagree yes. Those people are racist. They exist, we all agree. Try not to be one of them.
  7. Dr Jones Sr's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2017
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    Orange County CA
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    4 Days Ago  May 16, 2018, 8:52 PM - Re: Costume Appropriateness at Shows #32

    Yrien said: View Post

    The vast majority of characters in movies and on TV are still white. The number of characters of colour is comparatively very limited.

    ... there are so few characters of colour that when a white person chooses to cosplay as a character of colour, the reaction is often, "you have so many characters that look like you already, why do you have to take this one too?"
    Thanks for your thoughtful posts, which help give me a perspective I've not heard before.

    Yrien said: View Post

    ...a person of colour cosplays a white character... harassed and derided...cosplayers of colour are harassed for their cosplay choices...


    Maybe it's true that this is happening and that I don't know about it because I'm white. I will say that here in Southern California white people are themselves a minority, and at our local Cons people of all races and genders cosplay characters of all races and genders and as far as I know, nobody cares.

    I have never heard or seen anybody be derided and certainly not harassed. You'll see a group of friends dressed as characters from something and maybe the characters are originally intended to be Asian or perhaps they're intended to be white and one person in the group, or no people in the group, are the same ethnicity as the original characters. Nobody cares.

    At a Con here the majority of people cosplaying a particular character might be of different races than the original character's ethnicity... it's just not an issue to anybody. In fact I hadn't thought about it until this thread brought it up.

    It's the way things are here, at least where I live and work. At my workplace there might be a group of best friends, they were besties in High School, one is Vietnamese, one is Filipino, one is Mexican... they go to Cons and cosplay... they never give a moment's thought to the ethnicity of a character. Who does? Who cares?

    And there are many cosplayers here who embrace being a certain "version" of the original character! There's Captain Mexico (a Mexican-American's version of Captain America) and a group of Mexican-Americans dressed as blends of Indiana Jones characters with Mexican stereotypes. To these people issues of character and race aren't taboo or scary subjects, but something to have fun with.

    Yrien said: View Post
    I'm a woman, so I know that by expressing a different view... I'm opening myself up to retaliation, insults...
    This has the appearance of accusing me (being one of the males here) as being a woman-hater. I think it's unfair. You don't know me. I don't think people should be judged simply on the basis of their gender or race.
    Last edited by Dr Jones Sr; 4 Days Ago at 9:02 PM.

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