Time Bandits Map of the Universe

Excellent! What do you think of my suggestion earlier in this thread to use the actual map scanned for the fold out of the Critirion DVD I posted down below, and fixing the areas in Photoshop that are misaligned and then adding the clock panels to it. So at least we can get every single detail on the map that was actually used during filming. Heilman said it could be done but was concerned about losing resolution when enlarging it. What are your thoughts? 8d6b66b6ed0382b096a6dba86f72b15e.jpg
 
Well, we thought about it and went against it for various reasons. Mainly, because if we scan and try to realign all of the small details, it will actually cause the image to look distorted or misshapen and will cause resolution issues if done incorrectly and any small mistake is made. Then, we would have to go in and fix all of these blemishes and so forth, which could actually take away from the map itself and add way more work than needed.. We decided, that by looking at every possible image and just recreating it completely by hand, that it would lend to the hand painted look and feel of the original. Second, the fold lines in my opinion take away from the quality of the map visually, once it would be finished, due to the fact that those fold lines hide small details like text and symbols. We figured an aged look without the fold lines would be the most appealing in a visual sense. Third, we are using the map at the end of the movie for all of our main references as far as the color and placement of objects. By using the map at the end of the movie and taking reference from the actual movie map with the clocks, we believe we can acquire the highest form of detail and as close to original look as possible while possibly having one of the most authentic looking recreations(Due to looking like it was hand painted like the original), if done correctly.
 
PositronGaming said:
Well, we thought about it and went against it for various reasons. Mainly, because if we scan and try to realign all of the small details, it will actually cause the image to look distorted or misshapen and will cause resolution issues if done incorrectly and any small mistake is made. Then, we would have to go in and fix all of these blemishes and so forth, which could actually take away from the map itself and add way more work than needed.. We decided, that by looking at every possible image and just recreating it completely by hand, that it would lend to the hand painted look and feel of the original. Second, the fold lines in my opinion take away from the quality of the map visually, once it would be finished, due to the fact that those fold lines hide small details like text and symbols. We figured an aged look without the fold lines would be the most appealing in a visual sense. Third, we are using the map at the end of the movie for all of our main references as far as the color and placement of objects. By using the map at the end of the movie and taking reference from the actual movie map with the clocks, we believe we can acquire the highest form of detail and as close to original look as possible while possibly having one of the most authentic looking recreations(Due to looking like it was hand painted like the original), if done correctly.
Click to expand...
Oh I see. The one at the end of the film. Then just fixing the coloration and added the clock panels and the writing and numbers across the top of the map makes sense. This map.TimeBanditsMapCriterionBR.jpg
 
Exactly... We are mixing the two together to try and recreate the actual movie map as close as possible. regardless, no one will ever be able to make a truly 100% accurate recreation unless Terry Gilliam sells or puts the map on display. Until then, this is about the best we can do.
 
Excellent work, PositronGaming! That is looking really nice. I really like your nebula/milky way background, great coloration and depth.

In regards to your question about the writing, I'm sure jheilman and chris_s have some thoughts, but I'll share what I've discovered.

Since the whole map seems to be a collaged effort, based on reference we've discovered, as well as Terry Gilliam's preferred artistic medium, I believe the typography (except the handwriting on the clocks and top border) is all Letraset or Zip-A-Tone rub-down transfers. These were widely available and used in graphic design at the time. Also, it would appear all the typefaces are common and easy to find as digital assets.

The vertical and horizontal numbers are Zapf Chancery.
timebandits_font_zapfChancery.png

The radial numbers are Helvetica.
timebandits_font_helvetica.png

I'm fairly certain the central ring is Arabic.
timebandits_font_Arabic.png

The large ring with faded "script" is the Classic Script typeset. But what is says, is FAR more of a mystery... though I have a promising theory!

With a little bit of patience and trying to match visible characters we can identify a few letters:
timebandits_font_Classic_xgornf.png

XGORNF! ... XGORNF?

What is Xgornf?

However, with a little more patience, more matching letters, then googling the resulting word we can find something very interesting:
timebandits_font_Classic_Turriano.png

Juanelo Turriano is a famous CLOCKMAKER.

My theory is that all the words around that ring are names of famous clockmakers. The only other one I was able to identify that corroborates this theory is "Urgos," which was a German clock movement manufacturer.

My theory breaks down, however, because I was unable to identify any famous clockmaker named "XGORNF." ... I searched some other combinations, but to no avail. Perhaps someone else will have a flash of inspiration as to who or what is a Xgornf.

Hope that helps! And good luck on the continuing journey, I'm glad there is someone else along this road right now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
breakfstmachine said:
Excellent work, @PositronGaming! That is looking really nice. I really like your nebula/milky way background, great coloration and depth.

In regards to your question about the writing, I'm sure @jheilman and @chris_s have some thoughts, but I'll share what I've discovered.

Since the whole map seems to be a collaged effort, based on reference we've discovered, as well as Terry Gilliam's preferred artistic medium, I believe the typography (except the handwriting on the clocks and top border) is all Letraset or Zip-A-Tone rub-down transfers. These were widely available and used in graphic design at the time. Also, it would appear all the typefaces are common and easy to find as digital assets.

The vertical and horizontal numbers are Zapf Chancery.
View attachment 833318

The radial numbers are Helvetica.
View attachment 833319

I'm fairly certain the central ring is Arabic.
View attachment 833320

The large ring with faded "script" is the Classic Script typeset. But what is says, is FAR more of a mystery... though I have a promising theory!

With a little bit of patience and trying to match visible characters we can identify a few letters:
View attachment 833321

XGORNF! ... XGORNF?

What is Xgornf?

However, with a little more patience, more matching letters, then googling the resulting word we can find something very interesting:
View attachment 833322

Juanelo Turriano is a famous CLOCKMAKER.

My theory is that all the words around that ring are names of famous clockmakers. The only other one I was able to identify that corroborates this theory is "Urgos," which was a German clock movement manufacturer.

My theory breaks down, however, because I was unable to identify any famous clockmaker named "XGORNF." ... I searched some other combinations, but to no avail. Perhaps someone else will have a flash of inspiration as to who or what is a Xgornf.

Hope that helps! And good luck on the continuing journey, I'm glad there is someone else along this road right now.
Click to expand...
Wow beautiful stills of the work you have done so far!! Will you be adding those whitish cloudlike strokes against the blue background as well? You especially see them on the lower right hand corner of this map. And all over the portion of the map in the second picture from the film.8d6b66b6ed0382b096a6dba86f72b15e.jpg1417361490_1.jpg
 

Attachments

  • unknown.gif
    unknown.gif
    824 bytes · Views: 526
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi Tarkin,

Yeah, that is the plan, to add those airbrush-y gradient bits... I'm still mulling over how to accurately capture some of those wispy details. Some of those details are purposeful, and some look like they are map-handling wear 'n' tear. When I get closer to the aging processes, I'll have to decide which is which. Certainly the ones that have a circular mask are a part of the map.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here is one more build log entry on what I’ve accomplished in the last couple of months:

Finished tracing and laying in all the blue and white “topography.”
timebandits_topography_snip.png


I ordered one of Robert Fludd’s books and found the reference for all the ornate “portals.” I’ve scanned these and dropped them in, but have yet to do the final artistic integration into the map.
timebandits_fludd_portals.png


I’m placing elements as I find them, then going back in batches to blend and generate the eventual layer to be “printed."


If you haven’t seen this one, there is a great breakdown of Time Bandits from The Onion AV Club. In it they mention "Gilliam's Time Bandits begins by sinking into God's great map of the universe, a beautiful piece of Enlightenment-style cartography." This is a great reference point, and looking up "Enlightenment Cartography" proves already to indicate a lot of influence on some of the designs of Gilliam's map.


One night of endless googling and library-database searching I found another element that was proving elusive- Cadron Zodiacal En Forme De Dragon by Anthanasius Kircher.
timebandits_Kircher_ZodiacalDragon.jpg
(I’ve ordered the Kircher book mentioned in the previous interview with Bernard Allum, and I’m hoping it reveals some additional insight, but at the very least, I've got this puzzle piece.)


Another item I can’t quite nail down, but am starting to get closer to is this circular diagram in the mid-upper right. I think it’s a diagram of Stonehenge. I can’t find an exact reference, but it seems too close to be an accident.
timebandits_stonehenge.png


Something that I cannot figure out, is this triangle-moon-phase thing. I've rotated it 90-deg here.
timebandits_whatisthis.png


Does anyone have any idea of the source of this image? I’d love an assist. My eyes are red and dry from searching alchemy, astrology, occult imagery, and renaissance astronomy ad infinitum!

Finding the elements is barely half the battle, though a LOT of fun. The work continues, bit by bit. Thanks to everyone for staying engaged and offering your insight and observations!
 
It's awesome to watch your research develop! I'm astounded at how many of these tiny, esoteric images you've been able to track down.

Regarding the weird moon-phase thing you asked for help on...I just read an article about a 12th-century Cosmography manuscript, and it reminded me of this map. While none of the images in the article were a match, several of them seem to be similar in form to the moon-phase shape you're looking for.

42729292265_f068766cc6_o.jpg43585953922_af31178e33_b.jpg42729290725_3f1778b0ab_b.jpgW73_000017_sap.jpg42729290225_5285554568_b.jpg

(the last of which, incidentally, has some potentially revealing overlapping circles, which I've highlighted below...)

42729290225_5285554568_b.jpg

And from there, combining "cosmography" with other search terms (like "moon phase", "orbit", "eclipse", "earthlight"), I found some other not-quite-but-similar images. Perhaps with more digging, this could be a promising avenue? It may be that multiple diagrams were overlapped and/or selectively colored-in to produce what we see on the map.

d37495c0c8c60da17035adef0fc2f6c6--sun-path-ancient-astronomy.jpgtumblr_m4buciVDBw1qzkga5o1_640.jpg
 
Last edited:
Regarding "Xgornf"... I'm still scouring my references, but I find myself wondering if it might be Cyrillic. I've found a -- in Latin letters -- Czorny, that may or may not have horological associations...

ETA: Or Greek... In Greek script, those letters could be...

X or K (chi or kappa)
gamma, zeta, or psi
omicron seems pretty straightforward
the "rn" script could be one or two letters, and that opens things up a lot
last letter could be xi or a version of zeta

GreekScriptPDH041007_5255.gif


I get better results with that than I did mapping it to Cyrillic -- especially that last letter.

52880.jpg
 
Last edited:
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
Regarding "Xgornf"... I'm still scouring my references, but I find myself wondering if it might be Cyrillic. I've found a -- in Latin letters -- Czorny, that may or may not have horological associations...

ETA: Or Greek... In Greek script, those letters could be...

X or K (chi or kappa)
gamma, zeta, or psi
omicron seems pretty straightforward
the "rn" script could be one or two letters, and that opens things up a lot
last letter could be xi or a version of zeta

http://www.typophile.com/sites/default/files/old-images/GreekScriptPDH041007_5255.gif
Click to expand...
Inquisitor Peregrinus That is VERY interesting and looks promising. Especially because the "X" looks very similar to the font for "Classic Script." I'm going to experiment with some combinations this week. Thanks for posting this!

(There's also a part of me that thinks it's some mischief by the propmaker using a bunch of leftover letters on the Letraset transfer sheet. Since Xgornf seems to fit but is also meaningless...)

Regarding the weird moon-phase thing you asked for help on...I just read an article about a 12th-century Cosmography manuscript, and it reminded me of this map. While none of the images in the article were a match, several of them seem to be similar in form to the moon-phase shape you're looking for.



(the last of which, incidentally, has some potentially revealing overlapping circles, which I've highlighted below...)

Click to expand...
Patattack Interesting. I had seen the bottom images you posted in some of my "moon phase" research, but those old manuscripts are new and interesting indeed! The overlapping circles are very reminiscent of the map image.

This certainly bears some experimentation. Thanks! (The other search term I was using online and at the library was "sacred geometry," which was promising, but didn't seem to be headed in the right direction. Based on what we know, 12th Century Cosmography is FAR more likely to be a source of artistic intent for the Time Bandits map.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
breakfstmachine said:
@inquisitor Peregrinus That is VERY interesting and looks promising. Especially because the "X" looks very similar to the font for "Classic Script." I'm going to experiment with some combinations this week. Thanks for posting this!

(There's also a part of me that thinks it's some mischief by the propmaker using a bunch of leftover letters on the Letraset transfer sheet. Since Xgornf seems to fit but is also meaningless...)


@Patattack Interesting. I had seen the bottom images you posted in some of my "moon phase" research, but those old manuscripts are new and interesting indeed! The overlapping circles are very reminiscent of the map image.

This certainly bears some experimentation. Thanks! (The other search term I was using online and at the library was "sacred geometry," which was promising, but didn't seem to be headed in the right direction. Based on what we know, 12th Century Cosmography is FAR more likely to be a source of artistic intent for the Time Bandits map.)
Click to expand...
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe anything was on the back of the filming map. Only on the back of the map at the end of the film (the Harrison map) which was a drawing of the supreme beings fortress according to the man who made the map originally for the movie in that article posted on the 2nd page of this thread. But in the map the actors used if you look at the raining scene in the forest I don't see anything on the back of that map.Thoughts?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
breakfstmachine said:
Here is one more build log entry on what I’ve accomplished in the last couple of months:

Something that I cannot figure out, is this triangle-moon-phase thing. I've rotated it 90-deg here.
View attachment 833339


Does anyone have any idea of the source of this image? I’d love an assist. My eyes are red and dry from searching alchemy, astrology, occult imagery, and renaissance astronomy ad infinitum!

Finding the elements is barely half the battle, though a LOT of fun. The work continues, bit by bit. Thanks to everyone for staying engaged and offering your insight and observations!
Click to expand...


Ugh, this may be a composite of several elements - but even those seem elusive. Fun searching all the usual suspects for maps and manuscripts, as well as multiple variations on:

Magic Circle
Alchemy
Transmutation Circle
Astrology
Astronomy
and coupling with 'lunar' or 'moon'. Nothing seems exactly right - although there are many almost solutions.

This pinterest page provides many similar themes, which might help searches?
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/839288080528562236/

 
Tarkin said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe anything was on the back of the filming map. Only on the back of the map at the end of the film (the Harrison map) which was a drawing of the supreme beings fortress according to the man who made the map originally for the movie in that article posted on the 2nd page of this thread. But in the map the actors used if you look at the raining scene in the forest I don't see anything on the back of that map.Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I am unaware of anything on the back of the map, the Shooting Map or the Credits Map. The only reference that I've heard is the one from Bernard Allum that the back has an image of the Supreme Being's fortress. However, since the whole thing is so well designed and developed, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an inscription or seal or something, but I'm not sure we will ever know unless we are in the presence of the original.
 
breakfstmachine said:
I am unaware of anything on the back of the map, the Shooting Map or the Credits Map. The only reference that I've heard is the one from Bernard Allum that the back has an image of the Supreme Being's fortress. However, since the whole thing is so well designed and developed, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an inscription or seal or something, but I'm not sure we will ever know unless we are in the presence of the original.
Click to expand...
Correct. That's true. You only see a glimpse of the drawing when the map is rolled up at the end of the film before the credits. That's it though.
 
Hello everyone!! Has been a long time since I joined the discussion. My apologies about that. I have been extremely busy with work.

Latest update... We finished the map and can be seen at my deviant art portfolio. Here is the link https://www.deviantart.com/positrongaming/art/Time-Bandits-Map-766786603 The actual Photoshop/Clip Studio paint file came out to 567 MB and the final picture is 60 MB. The file that is on my deviantart was toned down to 20Mb. It is only a third of the true resolution. Client has asked that we lower resolutions and add watermarks.

I love the way it came out! But... I truly wish our client had the budget to allow us the time to give this map the true justice it deserves. Over the next year or so, i definitely plan on slowly adding to it and keeping in touch with everyone. Looking over all of information y'all have shared since I last spoke with some of you, I have a lot more work to do!!

I really hope y'all enjoy the map and what we were capable of doing in the budget and tine we were allotted. As we update the map, I will update everyone else. Please leave critiques...

Just found out which shop it is that will be selling them. Here is a link.... https://www.etsy.com/listing/479887306/time-bandits-replica-map-unofficial?ref=shop_home_active_6
 
Last edited:
Hello! Does anyone know who created this map? I bought it somewhere around 2002 or 2006. It is on canvas. The visible map dimensions are 36x22. That measurement is just outside the red matting. I'm not sure how far beyond the matting the map goes
20181013_152938.jpg20181013_152927.jpg20181013_152837.jpg20181013_152844.jpg
 

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.

Similar threads

jheilman
Hand Made Films licensed my Time Bandits Map
2
Replies
38
Views
2,962
jheilman
jheilman
kalkamel
The Philosophy of Time Travel book from Donnie Darko
Replies
2
Views
126
kalkamel
kalkamel
AIFallet
Finished High Valyrian font from the House of the Dragon/Game of Thrones TV universe
Replies
1
Views
802
avramidis3d
avramidis3d
METATRON
Time Bandits Map Weathering
Replies
4
Views
1,496
METATRON
METATRON
enchantinglace
Book of the Living
Replies
6
Views
319
TazMan2000
TazMan2000
Back
Top