Is Disney/LFL incapable of making anything new?

CT1138 said:
Then Rey amends that by telling Luke Skywalker that they've taken control of most of the systems outside the inner rim, meaning they have yet to take any of the major systems that are financially and strategically important, i.e. Coruscant, Onderon, Corellia, Kuat, really any of the big ship building and political planets. Furthermore, the First Order commits a considerable amount of might in their campaign against the Resistance. A dreadnought, several Star Destroyers, AND the First Order's flagship. It's a sizeable amount of war machine that could devastate the First Order if lost.

That's the exact thinking that destroyed the Empire. What imminent danger does one snub fighter have against a battle station? What imminent danger does a few fighters present to a massive dreadnought like the Executor?

It doesn't need to be. Just watch the movie.
View attachment 788398
You'll notice the smaller Star Destroyers never venture far from the Executor. Not even when they're chasing the Falcon are they too far from the larger dreadnought. The only time they break away is when Vader orders it so the Executor may go to Bespin and cut ahead of Han and his crew and set a trap for Luke.

They did that, but then the First Order called the TIE's back. They state why in the movie, but I can't remember the reason they give.

The biggest one off the top of my head is why is it that whenever there's a planetary blockage, the ships always seem to surround one focal point (usually the capitol, or other location of importance to our Heroes) instead of surrounding the ENTIRE planet. The Empire does this at Hoth in the OT, both sides do it countless times in TCW and Rebels, the Trade Federation does it in TPM, and the Confederacy does it over Coruscant in RotS. We live in a 3D world, Why don't they ever just take off or enter the planet on the opposite side of the planet, away from the Star Destroyers? I think this was even lampooned in Family Guy's Something, Something, Darkside...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhfDokCf5-Q&t=109s

The Sith aren't a military command structure, nor are the Jedi. The Jedi usually followed their own commands, which was to protect the target... which they usually followed through on. Obi-Wan's mission was the protect Luke. That's why he stayed on that Force-forsaken planet. I think you completely missed the point of the movie. If you tried even a smidgen to pay attention, you might have learned something instead of having to have it explained to you. The movie doesn't have to hold your hand, you know.

It's called implicit story telling. I know the average American has the attention span of a rodent, but this is just woefully bad. Either you're being accidentally ignorant, or purposely obtuse, and I'm not sure which I dislike more.

Page turners they were not. I'm interested in whether she actually reads them, or keeps them just because Luke Skywalker thought them important.

The point was to inspire hope. That if one old Jedi could face down the might of the First Order, maybe they had a chance after all.


Touche.

And it doesn't match continuity... how? This movie is FULL of continuity and callbacks in everything from the dialogue to the costumes. Luke refers to the Emperor as Darth Sidious, how is this not keeping with PT continuity? We have a bunch of OT characters, how is this not keeping OT continuity? Heck,Rey's Jedi garb even LOOKS like something right out of the PT.
Click to expand...

Oh, wonderful. "Implicit storytelling". Where you get to create all the head-canon you want.

How about we just stick to what is shown, instead of what we want to pretend is happening. I'lll go ahead and start with Ol' Huxster and his speech on Starkiller base.

"This fierce machine which you have built upon which we stand, will bring an end to the Senate! To their cherished fleet! All remaining systems will bow to the First Order! And will remember this... as the last day of the last republic."

Then they blowed up the "New Republic capital of Hosnian Prime, and four other planets in the Hosnian system, utterly destroying the planets and a significant portion of the New Republic's fleet."

Source, and the specific reference cites TFA itself.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Starkiller_Base

So when they said the FO reigns in TLJ, they mean it reigns over the New Republic cause it got blowed up in TFA. But why would you remember that? It was only one of the biggest set pieces of the movie....:rolleyes

Speaking strictly of military strategy and leaving philosophical ramifications of Palpatine's pride/empire's fall out the door. The FO had more than plenty enough escorts and really could have sent a single SD ahead.

Ships have to launch pretty much from where they are on the planet. The SD's are in a geosynchronous/geostationary orbit. No matter what, the SD are over the place where the ships launch. And they can easily adjust orbit to intercept the vessels if they did actually try to fly through the atmosphere to the other side. The ISS orbits Earth (goes around the whole planet) 16 times a day and it doesn't have giant engines on the back.

You completely missed his point about motive. Also, ironic that you are telling him to pay attention when you yourself missed the fact that Hux blowed up the New Republic. They only destroyed about half a dozen worlds in one shot, why would you remember that?.....:D

As I've shown your version if "implicit storytelling" is to make up up as you go along from your head canon. And, again, ironic that you claim "the average American has the attention span of a rodent", when you can't even remember very large details from TFA.
 
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Bryancd said:
What are you talking about? I said that TLJ is original and not derivative of previous films
Click to expand...

Seriously? This movie was like someone let a monkey splice together the reels from ESB and ROTJ.

Young wannabe Jedi goes to remote location to visit last remaining Jedi master.

Young wannabe Jedi receives training from last remaining Jedi master.
Reluctantly

2nd in command big bad guy tries to switch young wannabe Jedi to the dark side.
Fails

2nd in command big bad guy delivers big news about young wannabe Jedi's heritage.
Fans are divided on whether this is the truth.

Big battle on a white planet.

1st in command big bad guy is killed by 2nd in command big bad guy-
-as 2nd in command big bad guy protects young wannabe jedi from 1st in command big bad guy.

Cutesy creatures.

Lightsaber is lost/broken (the same damn lightsaber too)

Dumb side plot that doesn't really need to be there (canto bight/mine arks on a space potato)

The good guys are left decimated after the big bad guys have struck back after their previous defeat. Rings a bell, but not sure exactly where they got that idea from.
 
mattycsi said:
Seriously? This movie was like someone let a monkey splice together the reels from ESB and ROTJ.

Young wannabe Jedi goes to remote location to visit last remaining Jedi master.

Young wannabe Jedi receives training from last remaining Jedi master.
Reluctantly

2nd in command big bad guy tries to switch young wannabe Jedi to the dark side.
Fails

2nd in command big bad guy delivers big news about young wannabe Jedi's heritage.
Fans are divided on whether this is the truth.

Big battle on a white planet.

1st in command big bad guy is killed by 2nd in command big bad guy-
-as 2nd in command big bad guy protects young wannabe jedi from 1st in command big bad guy.

Cutesy creatures.

Lightsaber is lost/broken (the same damn lightsaber too)

Dumb side plot that doesn't really need to be there (canto bight/mine arks on a space potato)

The good guys are left decimated after the big bad guys have struck back after their previous defeat. Rings a bell, but not sure exactly where they got that idea from.
Click to expand...

This pretty much sums it up nicely.
 
CT1138 said:
The biggest one off the top of my head is why is it that whenever there's a planetary blockage, the ships always seem to surround one focal point (usually the capitol, or other location of importance to our Heroes) instead of surrounding the ENTIRE planet. The Empire does this at Hoth in the OT, both sides do it countless times in TCW and Rebels, the Trade Federation does it in TPM, and the Confederacy does it over Coruscant in RotS. We live in a 3D world, Why don't they ever just take off or enter the planet on the opposite side of the planet, away from the Star Destroyers? I think this was even lampooned in Family Guy's Something, Something, Darkside...
Click to expand...

The outside the movies canon explanation is that there are only so many discovered Hyperspace lanes that are safe. That could be due to gravity wells (planets, blackholes, etc.), territorial claims, or other navigational hazards. So in ESB there may have not been another direction to leave Hoth from. Supposedly the reason that Kashyyyk was invaded in ROTS is because they had some secret cartography guild that knew about secret hyperspace routes. Chewie was a member and gave access to the Rebels.


DarthLee said:
I'll top that....

I just watched my wife play almost 2 hours of KOTOR. It was very emotional. Screaming, crying.. laughing..

...she was serious the whole time.
Click to expand...

That game is a better movie than both Sequels.
 
It takes time to fly through an atmosphere, to another point on a world. It takes alot less time to maneuver to another point in space to intercept those who are leaving an atmosphere. It was a no-win situation.
 
The Wook said:
You're like a man defending crap-tasting pizza by saying it has cheese, and tomato sauce, which sit atop a crust made from dough--and the dough is made from flour and water, And it's baked in an oven, and is loaded with this topping and that topping, and...and...and...and...

You go on and on and on, but I've tried the pizza you're so zealously defending in such detail, and the bottom line is, it just plain tastes like schit.

I've never fought so hard to persuade people to like something I liked and they didn't like. Come to think of it, I don't put up any fight at all. I smile, say, "You crazy", and move on, perfectly content to like it myself, and not give AF who doesn't and why.

But you Disney apologists, and sycophants, never relent in your mission to persuade others to like what you like. That tells me you don't really like it on artistic merits. No. You know full well it stinks. But you'll never admit it, and you'll crusade to convince others to like it, because the film promotes your agenda.

Good night.

The Wook
Click to expand...
I like the part where you talk about pizza and call me a sycophant for liking a movie you don't like. Bravo! Top notch discussion, Wook! I'd expect nothing less from you.
scsc.gif


MrSouthpaw said:
Oh, wonderful. "Implicit storytelling". Where you get to create all the head-canon you want.

How about we just stick to what is shown, instead of what we want to pretend is happening. I'lll go ahead and start with Ol' Huxster and his speech on Starkiller base.

"This fierce machine which you have built upon which we stand, will bring an end to the Senate! To their cherished fleet! All remaining systems will bow to the First Order! And will remember this... as the last day of the last republic."

Then they blowed up the "New Republic capital of Hosnian Prime, and four other planets in the Hosnian system, utterly destroying the planets and a significant portion of the New Republic's fleet."

Source, and the specific reference cites TFA itself.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Starkiller_Base

So when they said the FO reigns in TLJ, they mean it reigns over the New Republic cause it got blowed up in TFA. But why would you remember that? It was only one of the biggest set pieces of the movie....:rolleyes

Speaking strictly of military strategy and leaving philosophical ramifications of Palpatine's pride/empire's fall out the door. The FO had more than plenty enough escorts and really could have sent a single SD ahead.

Ships have to launch pretty much from where they are on the planet. The SD's are in a geosynchronous/geostationary orbit. No matter what, the SD are over the place where the ships launch. And they can easily adjust orbit to intercept the vessels if they did actually try to fly through the atmosphere to the other side. The ISS orbits Earth (goes around the whole planet) 16 times a day and it doesn't have giant engines on the back.

You completely missed his point about motive. Also, ironic that you are telling him to pay attention when you yourself missed the fact that Hux blowed up the New Republic. They only destroyed about half a dozen worlds in one shot, why would you remember that?.....:D

As I've shown your version if "implicit storytelling" is to make up up as you go along from your head canon. And, again, ironic that you claim "the average American has the attention span of a rodent", when you can't even remember very large details from TFA.
Click to expand...
I don't recall saying that the statement "The First Order reigns" was implicit storytelling at all. In fact, I believe I called the statement everything but a lie.
 
CT1138 said:
I like the part where you talk about pizza and call me a sycophant for liking a movie you don't like. Bravo! Top notch discussion, Wook! I'd expect nothing less from you.
Click to expand...

Don't put words in my mouth. You're not a sycophant for liking the movie (which, again, you didn't actually like). Your'e a sycophant for relentlessly crusading to convince those who disliked the film, to like it As a SJW, it is your mission in life convert any and all critics of, in this case, the liberal ideology-driven Disney SW films, by grabbing them by the hair, tilting their heads back, and pouring the secular progressive Koolaid you and your ilk peddle so furiously, down their unwilling throats. All efforts to disguise this agenda as art, as provocative films, are completely transparent. You're not fooling anyone--except yourselves.

The Wook .
 
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CT1138 said:
I don't recall saying that the statement "The First Order reigns" was implicit storytelling at all. In fact, I believe I called the statement everything but a lie.
Click to expand...

I didn't tie my critique of implicit storytelling to that sentence. It was isolated as it's own paragraph. Think of it as a general critique of your post and it's content in total, which is loaded with implication and assumption.

And now that we've gotten the first sentence out of the way. Would you like a chance to respond to the rest of my post?
 
MrSouthpaw said:
I didn't tie my critique of implicit storytelling to that sentence. It was isolated as it's own paragraph. Think of it as a general critique of your post and it's content in total, which is loaded with implication and assumption.

And now that we've gotten the first sentence out of the way. Would you like a chance to respond to the rest of my post?
Click to expand...

Sure, I'll respond. Yes, the galactic seat of government is destroyed, but that doesn't mean the entire New Republic has been destroyed. That would be to say blowing up Washington DC would be to destroy the entire United States. It doesn't. Just because the First Order has managed to take over a bunch of resource rich backwaters on the ass end of space doesn't mean they've toppled the Republic and now rule the galaxy. The heart of the Galaxy is still alive and free from the tyranny of the First Order. The First Order hasn't destroyed the New Republic. To do so, they'd have to see to destroy half the galaxy.

Why the First Order doesn't do that strategy, I don't know. Like I said, there are plenty of the same logic errors in the OT. Why didn't the Empire do that while chasing the Falcon? Why didn't anybody look out a window and say, "Hey, there's that ship we've been chasing on the back of the conning tower!" Why didn't the Empire blockade the entirety of Hoth, or why didn't the Rebellion fly off in the opposite direction of the Star Destroyers, EU explanations not withstanding.

Space ships in SW don't work like space ships in reality. This has been evident since day 1. They don't need to take off and land in linear positions. They can move freely between space and atmospheres.

As for the Wook, I'm done feeding the troll.
 
The Wook said:
Don't put words in my mouth. You're not a sycophant for liking the movie (which, again, you didn't actually like). Your'e a sycophant for relentlessly crusading to convince those who disliked the film, to like it As a SJW, it is your mission in life convert any and all critics of, in this case, the liberal ideology-driven Disney SW films, by grabbing them by the hair, tilting their heads back, and pouring the secular progressive Koolaid you and your ilk peddle so furiously, down their unwilling throats. All efforts to disguise this agenda as art, as provocative films, are completely transparent. You're not fooling anyone--except yourselves.

The Wook .
Click to expand...

How about you (wook) stop gaslighting people. If someone likes a film you shouldn't tell them that they didn't. I'm like 15, and I'm looking at adults acting like grade school children insulting each over a piece of fiction! The main reason I loved ep 8 is because I actually cried when Luke was walking out to face Kylo on Crait! That was so moving and beautiful to me. Cant we let some people like the movie and some people not?
 
And someone said this "So again, the message of the movie is to shut up and obey orders blindly" in regards to Haldo, and my views on this is, no that's not the message. I thought the message for that part of the movie was, sometimes you don't know everything that is going on, there are people smarter than you, people and situations can be more than meets the eye. (OG transformers rocks!) Poe even says "she's not what I expected." Haldo's plan was on a need to know basis and Poe (who just got demoted by the way) did not need to know.

 
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