Various criticisms can and have been leveled at TLJ but being derivative certainly hasn't been a very prominent one. The film is unique onto the franchise and other films like this (2nd act of a 3 part trilogy). Rogue One used some familiar characters and McGuffin but the "build a team to go on a suicide mission", although done in other films, was entirely unique to Star Wars, especially killing off the main characters. That was a bold choice. So I don't see the question "Can Disney make anything new" having a lot of objective validity.
Is Disney/LFL incapable of making anything new?
- Thread starter Mr Webber
- Start date
Darth Lars
Master Member
... and you saw the necessity to quote the entire looong post.Two wrongs dont make a right.
Mr Webber
Master Member
Was Rogue One a Disney project or did they just finance it?
Addition : Killing off two characters in an anthology movie with zero possible chance of a continuation in the future is the very opposite of a "bold" choice.
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All these films are made by LucasFilm and distributed by Buena Vista, Disney's distribution company.
sztriki
Sr Member
I swear to god I didn't want to get into this again...I'l try to cut it short. I shall assume full responsibility for derailing the thread and apologise to everyone. Meanwhile continue the normal discussion...
I really don't want to hijack the thread more, so if you consider the answers you gave satisfactory then it's great I've got nothing against people liking this movie, good for them. I and a few others obviously have further issues and it's not just the ones I listed and not just plot-wise. If you check in the Kingdom of Crystal Skull thread there is a similar discussion about how much one can suspend disbelief in a movie. God knows I love BTTF trilogy or Indy movies and they do have quite a few plot holes in it, but the rest of the movie, characters, tone, ideas are strong enough to shrug those off. Unfortunately for me TLJ did not have much to offer me to gloss over plot contrivances and some of these plot points were really jarring in the overall story. That's pretty much it for me. If you'd like to discuss, I'm at your service via PM, but it's not the thread really.
The First Order reigns. This is the first sentence in the entire movie.
What's the imminent danger, 3 crippled ships on the run? Can they not let 2 star destroyers go ahead after the medical frigate ran out of fuel to cut the whole travesty short? Watch The Hunt for the Red October and see how a chase movie is done well.
I probably missed that where this was explicitly stated..?
They were pretty effective against the escape pods. I know, I know, shields, but the Falcon was losing its shields too after so many hits. Plus the TIEs seemed to damage the cruiser pretty well with tiny lasers instead of turbolasers so again, let 1 or 2 destroyers go ahead, release the TIEs and byebye?
Such as?
So again, the message of the movie is shut up and obey orders blindly. I thought the First Order was the fascist militaristic organization. Here's the thing, you're absolutely right that Holdo didn't need to explain. Vader also didn't need to throw Palps down the shaft. Luke didn't need to go with Obi-wan to Alderaan. When you tell a story you give motivation. Why did she? Why didn't she? "She didn't have to" is simply saying "just because". Example: Obi and Anakin chase an assassin in Clones through hell and high water and when said assassin is shot by Jango Fett they just look and are like ah well, sod it. They didn't need to chase Jango Fett. But the question is why didn't they, coz it would have made sense. I haven't been to the military but I doubt any competent commander would say "just hope for the best" when your soldiers are awaiting your orders. And the janitors were filled in when they were preparing the escape pods, if not fully at least more than Poe and friends who resorted to mutiny. There was absolutely no reason other than she didn't have to.
I probably missed this one. I remember him having a torch in hand, telling Yoda that he's gonna destroy the books then Yoda shrugs, tells him off and lightnings the cave to which Luke freaks out.
Which is underpinned by showing that Rey has the dusty old books.
So if nobody saw what happened then what's so inspiring in an old guy turning up, walking out and dying? For all they know he could have been blasted into smithereens for no good reason by the walkers or chopped down by Ren. And again, what was in Luke's head, like what was his plan, how was the entire move designed coz as far as he knew the friends were trapped there and he was gonna die at the end anyway? Like most things in this film the idea I get behind, execution, not so much.
I really don't want to hijack the thread more, so if you consider the answers you gave satisfactory then it's great I've got nothing against people liking this movie, good for them. I and a few others obviously have further issues and it's not just the ones I listed and not just plot-wise. If you check in the Kingdom of Crystal Skull thread there is a similar discussion about how much one can suspend disbelief in a movie. God knows I love BTTF trilogy or Indy movies and they do have quite a few plot holes in it, but the rest of the movie, characters, tone, ideas are strong enough to shrug those off. Unfortunately for me TLJ did not have much to offer me to gloss over plot contrivances and some of these plot points were really jarring in the overall story. That's pretty much it for me. If you'd like to discuss, I'm at your service via PM, but it's not the thread really.
That was done already in 1997, so not that much novelty there...:lol
Mr Webber
Master Member
Either way, to come in here and say that there is no derivative comments on the TLJ in that thread was a joke for a start and to then say this thread is irrelevant is a slap in the face to all who have contributed. Using Rogue is a bad example to use anyway as it made a ton more money that TLJ in China for a start.
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Really?
sztriki
Sr Member
I personally wasn't a fan of Rogue One because if you take away the Star Wars glaze there's very little left in terms of story and characters. That being said the direction in general is I think what could work in the longer run, where you bring in a story and put Star Wars gloss on it. It's not gonna change the Star Wars universe really, it's just gonna be something that moves within the narrow boundaries of the known sandbox, but as individual movies they might offer good entertainment.
What are you talking about? I said that TLJ is original and not derivative of previous films, as is R1. I’m responding to the question posed in your thread title.
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And again, the sole prose of this thread is to answer the question can Lucasfilm make original films. People may not enjoy them all but they are certainly original.
sztriki
Sr Member
Just a Cpt Needa misquote.
Mr Webber
Master Member
What? Look if you dont like the thread, dont give it any attention.
Im not clear if you are joking or drunk. Do you understand what the word "derivative" means as applied to your question about originality? People don't argue TLJ wasn't original, or derivative, they don't like the plot or the way characters were handled. That's a different criticism.
Mr Webber
Master Member
So you are telling me that people have not commented on how TLJ despite trying and failing to be different is not just leeching off the back of the past, you would be wrong. Very wrong.
Sure but that's not the major thrust of the criticism on that thread and is the least compelling argument. It really doesn't hold a lot of objective validity. If anything the film went in directions some found off putting but that's original even if the results are mixed.
Seriously, what are you taking about? I'm not killing a thread whatever, I don't even know what you mean.
Darth Lars
Master Member
Can't we have one thread for discussing Star Wars without this Lucasfilm marketdroid with his condescending attitude insulting people left and right?
In forums for other collecting hobbies I have (I know, weird, right...), there are special "Vendors' Subforums" where vendors have to keep to when they want to flaunt their wares. Then they keep out of the serious discussions where the wares are discussed with a critical mindset.
In forums for other collecting hobbies I have (I know, weird, right...), there are special "Vendors' Subforums" where vendors have to keep to when they want to flaunt their wares. Then they keep out of the serious discussions where the wares are discussed with a critical mindset.
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I heard they could've got this guy to do the Gonk voice that does a spot on impression of the original Gonk sound effect from ANH, but instead they went with some lame wannabe actor kid just because he was the producer's best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend instead.
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