Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

HanSolo2187 · Dec 18, 2017

I need to read all 32 pages of these comments to get the feel of the movie from everyone. From what I've seen everywhere else - its pretty divisive.

For me, I liked it, but it wasn't great or even epic (as I had wished). My biggest issues were:

- Made everything we were discussing/debating from TFA for the last 2 years a non-thing or didn't even address. Snoke's origin/backstory, Rey's parents, Luke's lightsaber, who created the map to Luke, Rey's vision, etc.

- There are no burning questions or moments to look forward to in Episode 9.

joeranger · Dec 18, 2017

Saw it last night. There were enough good parts for me to like it but it was a mess of a story. Like the above post, I need to read all 30+ pages.
It achieved it's two most important goals; money and in-your-face-diversity.

There were at least 4 or 5 parts I cheered outloud. Worth seeing in the theater.

Ollois · Dec 18, 2017

jusdrewit said:
That 5 mph chase scene did seem weird, what was stopping the First Order from launching their TIE fighters? I need to rewatch. Attack fighters are much faster than the big Destroyers, so I'm scratching my head as to why all those FO ships we're doing nothing but chasing

Bryancd said:
More seems to be coming to light regarding the RT audience score and a specific anti-Disney bot...

http://deadline.com/2017/12/star-wa...c-imdb-users-cinemascore-posttrak-1202228837/

And as I mentioned box office legs will tell the real story.

Box Office only tells you that everyone feels compelled to see it because it’s the latest Star Wars Movie and the RT scores seem to sum up what I’m seeing everywhere else.

Keiko · Dec 18, 2017

So true. The Phantom Menace took in over $1B in box office receipts. By that measure, people loved it and think it's a great film.

Bones_68 · Dec 18, 2017

Lots of interesting reactions here, as expected. I was really looking forward to TLJ but it struck me as pretty messy storytelling. As others have said, there's a little too much bait-and-switch to make for a satisfying arc between TFA and this episode. Jonah linked to a well written take on Johnson's "deconstruction" thinking but post-viewing rationalizations don't erase the awkwardness of how it all plays out. This was a script that was both unnecessarily convoluted and bloated. It's always a bad sign when you watch a movie and find yourself thinking, "when is this gonna wrap things up."

I'm also inclined to agree with those who feel like this was a misread of Luke's character. It would be one thing if he had gone off to search for answers and expand his knowledge of the force, or even if he just needed time to regroup after the loss of his training school. But to have him go into seclusion and completely call it quits while knowing his friends and sister are still out there fighting and need help...? Sorry, but I think Mark Hamill's first instincts were right — this felt like a severely wrong headed interpretation of the character on Johnson's part.

I really liked Rey's character in TFA even though they kinda rushed her development. So it's surprising to see that she doesn't seem to learn any significant lessons here beyond "your heroes aren't always what they're cracked up to be." For the up-and-coming hero of the new trilogy, that's a remarkably linear path.

Anyway, just my two cents. I'm happy for those who enjoyed it. And young people and kids, including some family friends — the intended audience — seem to love it and that's great. There's a lot of good stuff in it worth talking and thinking about. Maybe it is the kind of movie that needs a second viewing to let things sink in. I wonder how a shorter, tighter edit would play out.

karmajay · Dec 18, 2017

Luke says "Instinctively" he fires up his saber. He has known for some time that Ben has been getting darker and darker. He then sees Ben's future. Does he see him help build a group that kills millions (billions) of people? Does he see Ben personally kill thousands of innocents? How many people in this thread have probably joked that if they had a time machine they would go back and kill Hitler? This basically a moment like that.

What people (IMO) should be focusing on is he IMMEDIATELY discarded the thought and regretted it which shows the character people are clamoring for. Unfortunately it was too late.

crabra comander · Dec 18, 2017

I’m just going to have to watch it again and toss out all my preconceived notions about what Star Wars should be. Let the old Star Wars go and get ready for the new Star Wars!

I did did enjoy a few things. The bombing run, the throne rooms redness and the badass praetorian guards. The connection that Rey and Kylo feel. And I did like that even Yoda was wise enough to let things go!

I think there can be a huge payoff for some of these characters if they aren’t completely ignored, i.e., knights of Ren, Phasma, and, possibly, Snoke? Maybe Ren shows up at a remote location and informs his knights of their new leader or he simply hunts them down and destroys them! We could have a sort of Man with No Name anti hero crushing then while Rey searches for him. Snoke has less planned ahead than the Emperor unless he can pull a Houdini and show perhaps he was a stand in for Snoke a la Wizard of Oz! Perhaps Phasma demonstrates she is the toughest villain and makes a come back.

New possibilities certainly arise from what’s been established here, hopefully they don’t squander it

dascoyne · Dec 18, 2017

The reason why Snoke couldn't read Ren's betrayal is evident when you look at the big picture.

Snoke understands Ren as a morally conflicted individual. He's exploited this aspect to manipulate Ren. But Snoke made the mistake of assuming Ren's internal conflict was a struggle between Light and Dark sides of The Force. It wasn't.

If you consider Ren's history you'll see that his conflict was about trying shed/kill father figures in his life. Naturally a defining moment was as an apprentice seeing Luke hovering over him with lightsaber in hand. This is when he abandoned his teacher. In TFA he literally killed his father.

In TLJ when Ren is charged with killing Rey, Snoke can feel his conflict but thinks it's about Light vs. Dark when it's really about killing his next father figure/teacher, Snoke. That's why Ren uses the same words that he used before killing Han.

Ren pretty much explains his belief about the weakness of parental love/devotion when he offers to join forces with Rey.

Snoke who sees the universe through the lens of Light vs. Dark sides of The Force didn't see it coming.

karmajay · Dec 18, 2017

I'll also add that Snoke misunderstood who his "resolve" was about. Everything Snoke was saying about Kylo's intent was true but it was toward Snoke and not Rey.

ghostryder · Dec 18, 2017

http://collider.com/the-last-jedi-spoilers-questions-theories

tcsmit29 · Dec 18, 2017

I think that Lucasfilm has accomplished exactly what they wanted. In the trailer, two quotes that were heard "this isn't going to go the way you think" and "kill the past" seem to portray Lucasfilms intention with this film. Many members here have stated that this isn't our Star Wars anymore. I agree with that sentiment. They have demonstrated there intention of killing off everything that relates to the past (our Star Wars) while building the new. The treatment that was given to many things that fans hold dear (heroism of Luke, Anakin saber, ect) definitely didn't go the way that we were thought. They did all this and made money to boot. Someone likened these new movies to fast food. That is a great analogy imho.

I liked the film, I want to see it again. I was a little disappointed. I can't really explain what it is. I feel like Charlie Brown after Lucy snatched the football away. I guess its time to move on. I will still watch the movies but I'm not really looking forward to them like I used to. I guess I am officially "grown up" now.

I did like the turn of events with Luke at the end. Like most people, I would have loved to see his X-Wing swoop down and blow the siege cannon or something similar and a final saber fight with Kylo. But I think what we got was kind of genius in a way. Luke needed to confront Kylo and do what he could to save the resistance. He also needed to pass the torch along. He accomplished all of this. But he also did it in a way in which Kylo would not have the pleasure or bragging rights of saying "I killed Luke Skywalker". Luke didn't win but he did snatch victory away from the FO. And the dice disappearing was a nice touch. A last try to elicit some feelings of remorse from Kylo.

Porgs are awesome. Blue/green milk is not. Didn't need to see that.

kristen jones · Dec 18, 2017

Zuiun said:
So he did the only thing he could: He put every last ounce of energy he had into Force projecting exactly the Luke Skywalker that was needed.

I feel like you're projecting your own idea of what you wanted these characters to be. That's fine, but that also sets up this level of disappointment when they aren't what you expect.

Han never lead a life that was unquestionable. His entire persona was as a scoundrel at heart. Sure, he did the right thing now and again, but he was always still kind walking that line of only thinking for himself.

I'm totally fine with him trying to go back to the thing he was good at: Smuggling. If I have any complaints it's that I would have liked more insight into what drove him and Leia apart than we were given by just a couple of lines of dialog.

I don't think I could have come up with a better way to put both of these points if I'd tried rewriting over and over for three years consecutively.

Well said!

kristen jones · Dec 18, 2017

Panaflex said:
Luke's saber being tossed off a cliff is the perfect illustration of this. It was Johnson's way of saying "I'm throwing everything out the window, my movie."

Yes... and I think he has been saying that through the dialog and in the trailers as well... telling us all that it's time to stop holding on (as Kylo said), time to let old things die, time for the jedi to end, etc. He was very clear about it. I thought that was obvious.

Panaflex said:
Mark Hamill has been quoted as saying "I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you've made with this character... (Luke)

This PORTION of Mark's comments is continually quoted by those who have chosen to dislike the film as support for their view that Rian Johnson somehow crapped on the character. I find it strange that none of those people seem to quote the REST of that statement,

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/mark-h...fferent-opinions-on-lukes-future-in-last-jedi

Panaflex said:
In my opinion, it shows. Finally, Johnson has said that he thinks his SW movie is the penultimate of all the SW movies. Oh the hubris. Better than Empire? Please.

In your opinion.

And you're completely justified in holding that opinion. However, I (and lots of others) do not share it.

ghostryder · Dec 18, 2017

Rian talks subverting expectations:

http://www.slashfilm.com/subverting-snoke-expectations/

And deleted scenes:

http://collider.com/the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes-details

Jedi-72 · Dec 18, 2017

There's nothing wrong with moving beyond the original films. Cool. BUT....you damn well better be replacing it with something equally as great or better, and well....they're not. At all. There's nothing there. JJ planted some seeds. I don't know WTF Johnson did. And, not for nothing, but it's immeasurably arrogant to convey this message of letting the past die within a movie that's nothing but a sloppy blend of Empire and Jedi. They did nothing new. Nothing.

astroboy · Dec 18, 2017

You know, I just realize the point of the casino sublot. It wasn't to serve the story at all, it was merely a film contrivance.

After The force Awakens, one of the many niggly bits that people had was that Finn had a showdown with TR8R, rather than Phasma. Everyone called it a wasted opportunity.

So IMHO, the entire point to the casino subplot was simple: They needed to get Finn aboard the Star destroyer so that he could have a sword fight with Phasma.

That's it. That's all.

Which tells me that Finn should have died at the end of The Force Awakens. That would have completed his arc in a way that would have given Rey even more fire against Kylo ren

Zuiun · Dec 18, 2017

mkstewartesq said:
IIRC there was something (dubious) about the star destroyers not being able to support the smaller fighters if the fighters got too far away from the big ships. Yeah, I don't get it either. Didn't seem to be a problem in the asteroid field in ESB (we even saw TIE bombers making leisurely bombing runs on individual asteroids). Instead, in TLJ, we got some weird "OJ and the White Bronco" slow speed chase, except the police cars were also lobbing spitballs at the Bronco the whole time in this one.

M

There is a huge difference between TIE fighters looking for one small freighter, versus TIE fighters being unsupported against a fleet of armed cruisers. Being out of range of the Destroyers' heavy cannons, the TIE's would be sitting ducks against the Resistance ships cannons.

My take was that it wasn't fuel support. It was weapons support. (Admittedly, I haven't seen it a second time yet, so if they do specifically mention fuel for the TIEs, I'll walk back my words...)

Also, I didn't take it as slow speed chase. They could be going ANY sublight speed. The point was that both fleets matched max speeds, so unless one ran out of fuel, there was no way for the other to catch it. With the OJ chase, the police intentionally held back. In Last Jedi it would be like both fleets had their gas pedals floored -- of course without something close by as a frame of reference, that's still going to look like standing still in space.

Moviefreak · Dec 18, 2017

Keiko said:
So true. The Phantom Menace took in over $1B in box office receipts. By that measure, people loved it and think it's a great film.

I agree.... when it comes to a Star Wars film, you cannot judge it by the box office numbers. Some will like the film, some will not,. As you noted, the SW films people hate out of the series (like the Phantom Menace), are still HUGE box office wins. Everyone will go see a new SW film, even if they walk away hating it. And as huge SW fans, they will usually go back "HOPING" to like it the second time. So those die hard SW fans who are defending it solely based on "Well look at the ticket sales", are grasping at straws. :lol

dascoyne · Dec 18, 2017

blewis17 said:
While I can understand why holo-Luke appears young in the fight with Kylo, I can NOT understand why he is holding the ESB blue saber. Even in the flashback scenes, he had his ROTJ saber. Plus, since we had just seen the "real" ESB saber destroyed with Kylo/Rey.

Maybe it's because a green lightsaber would be thematically (with both Luke and director Rian) distasteful.

The last time Ren saw that green lightsaber was when Luke "betrayed" him during his apprenticeship. Luke drawing this in battle communicates "I'm here to finish the job" which is not the message Luke wanted to project (pun intended).

Zuiun · Dec 18, 2017

HanSolo2187 said:
- There are no burning questions or moments to look forward to in Episode 9.

But do we *need* burning questions going into the next one?

A New Hope ended as...well, as THE END.Until they announced the sequel, not one single person was wondering "gee, what happens next?" because the movie literally had a complete beginning, middle, and end. That didn't quell excitement for Empire one single bit. (In fact, Lucas had to introduce a whole slew of history rewrites and inconsistencies just to create a trilogy out of his initial one-film story.)

The problem, I think, is that the "burning questions" can get in the way of what Star Wars is, which is an adventure story. Diving too hard into the mythology, like who Snoke is, or who Rey's parents are, that just gets us something like the Prequels. The core adventure of the Prequels is great. It just gets bogged down and wasted by too much self importance.

As for what we have to look forward to, that's easy: An epic confrontation between Rey and Kylo.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

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