Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%

  • Total voters
    578
I’ve been watching lots of reviews online and on YouTube and the one thing I can’t figure out is the negative ‘Leia Poppins’ mentions’.

Last time I checked:
- Mary Poppins is awesome
- Everyone loves Mary Poppins
- Being compared to Mary Poppins is a compliment and an honor

Its just because of the angle in which she flys back to the ship. Its really similar to Mary Poppins. But you are correct and TLJ insulted Mary Poppins and should be sued. LOL


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As I was watching the movie I didn't really think too much about this, but after I got out of it and had time to go over everything in my head I was literally going "WTF, the First Order with all of their power and weaponry is now just waiting patiently for waiting for people to run out of gas?" That is beyond comprehension. :facepalm

I am sure JJ and Disney/Lucasfilm will fix this Rian plot hole in the next film by having gas stations manned by cool aliens popping up everywhere and ten minute scene showing the Falcon getting refueled.


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The Resistance had 18 hours to run while Rey trained with Luke on Achto while several days passed.... possible explanations:
- A day on Achto is something like 4 hours
- Non-linear storytelling, where Rey meets Luke several days ahead of the evacuation
- Time dilation (not very cannon)




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It's weird for me, the prequels let me down, so I've learned to be cautious. I didn't mind TFA (didn't blow me away by any means), really enjoyed Rogue One, but this, TLJ, it kinda hurts a little. I love SW, I was born in 74 and grew up on it. It's always been there for me, Star Wars owes me nothing, but I left the theater feeling empty. Not angry, but disappointed, sad, and just empty. I know that, for me, nothing will ever live up to the OT. I understand expectations are so high for this franchise they'll almost always be impossible to meet, but I genuinely felt sad after watching that.

I pretty much feel 100% exactly the same as you except for the fact that I really did like TFA quite a bit.
 
There Resistance had 18 hours to run while Rey trained with Luke on Achto while several days passed.... possible explanations:
- A day on Achto is something like 4 hours
- Non-linear storytelling, where Rey meets Luke several days ahead of the evacuation
- Time dilation (not very cannon)




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I'm sure someone will create some crazy retcon that's made canon in order to cover up the poor writing. That's the school of GL.

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Story is what happens to characters and what they do, plot is HOW they do it.

ANH story: Farmboy joins rebellion and begins his Jedi journey.
ANH plot: a battle results in a message that is picked up by a farmboy and he goes to a bar and meets a pilot and they go to the death star and rescue a princess but the old guy dies and they go to the rebel base and discover how to blow up the space station and they send 30 ships and blah blah blah.


Basically that. I actually loved what happened to the characters in this chapter of a space opera. I even loved that they killed Snoke. It was a game changer and means that we're in uncharted territory.

But how that all played out was pretty stupid.


Even with the TFA, I didn't mind the story at all. But I didn't like the plot. For instance, rather than the starkiller base thing, it could have been about hunting down a jedi holocron (needed to find luke) on First order-controlled coruscant. They could have had to retrieve it from the bowels of the burned down jedi Temple.

The story could have been the same, bu the plot could have been less derivative. And it could have tied the prequels into it, without being "like" the prequels.
 
Tracking for $215M open, which is about $45M more then Disney was suggesting in their public discussions of the film. Over a year ago they set expectations to be below TFA as they realize the demand for a new STAR WARS film was so massive. If the film does $700M domestic and $1.5B global they have a huge win. Disney loves the film, they love Rian, the box office will be strong, and he will make a new 3 film trilogy.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4353&p=.htm
 
Every thing happens in 18 hours as directly addressed in movie when FO and Resistance state they have 18 hours of fuel left. Poe reminds Finn the urgency of his mission and then a comment is made about 6 hours of fuel left.

When resistance abandons ship and escape to Crait then the 18 hours of fuel is exhausted and immediately afterwards the final battle starts. So basically everything including the events on Achto with Luke and Rey happen within 19 hours or less. This is the Canon made in the film. Yes, a major plot hole and WTF MOMENT!


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No, when it cut to Rey after the first scene, they must have popped back in time. And we have no idea how long it was between Rey leaving in TFA and the first scene of TLJ. Quite a bit transpired before the 18 hours was mentioned anyway.

Gave it a second watch today. Great movie. Liked it even more now that I was prepared for some of the glorious weirdness.

The compositing still looks like ass though. Yeesh Disney, hire more CG crew.
 
Also...how did benicio del Toronto spill the beans on Laura dern's plan when it wasn't developed until after they left for casino world? That also made no sense.

And how did the first order not see all those escape ships? They mentioned that they were cloaked, but clearly that just meant, not picked up on sensors. Even though they were clearly visible from snokes ship!

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Quantitative cheerleading has never really worked for me as a quality barometer - again, that's just me personally, ymmv. I get *why* it's important for success, but, I don't know - not that I *hated* it, I just didn't like it as much as I wanted to... The more I think about The Last Jedi:

C-ETiBkVwAA-AgE.jpg
 
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There's more emotional resonance in a close up of two fingers touching in TLJ than in the entire PT. Adam Driver is my god now.
I totally agree. That was the most uncomfortable star wars moment since Leia kissed luke.

But in a good way

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Aren't you neck deep in coal at this point?

Tracking for $215M open, which is about $45M more then Disney was suggesting in their public discussions of the film. Over a year ago they set expectations to be below TFA as they realize the demand for a new STAR WARS film was so massive. If the film does $700M domestic and $1.5B global they have a huge win. Disney loves the film, they love Rian, the box office will be strong, and he will make a new 3 film trilogy.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4353&p=.htm
 
First, I'm going to tackle a recent question in this thread:

so i want to know something canon wise.... i thought in TFA the republic signed a war treaty with the first order, making it so the first order cant make any military weapons... if the first order was secretly building star destroyers and planet size killer weapons

how does poe know of a dreadnought? did i miss a book where the republic knew of the first order building weapons?

The New Republic accepted the Empire's surrender a year after the Battle of Endor. This was right after the Battle of Jakku, that was pretty much the last stand of the Imperial Starfleet as a cohesive force -- and also a mask to let some of the seeds of what would become the First Order to escape to the Unknown Regions to rendezvous with hinted-at forces already in place.

Fast forward to about five years before TFA (Bloodline). Leia starts finding hints about a new power nibbling at the edges of known space. Her opponents in the Senate dismiss her concerns. Then her being Darth Vader's daughter goes public and her credibility goes out the window. So she rage-quits and starts the Resistance, 'cause she knows the First Order is coming (even though she doesn't yet know it's called that).

By TFA, the Resistance knows a lot more. Knows about the First Order, knows about Snoke, knows Ben Solo has become Kylo, leader of the Knights of Ren, knows about their ships and Stormtroopers and so on. The only thing that's a surprise is the Starkiller. The New Republic still refuses to do anything overt. They're pretty much as deadlocked as the Old Republic Senate had gotten, and the fleet is languishing at its base near the capitol. Those who still tacitly support Leia have been sending her funds and matèriel and intel. So the Resistance (including Poe) know about ships beyond the ones we saw in TFA -- even if not necessarily by name or full capability. The First Order was building and arming in secret out in uncharted space for the better part or three decades -- potentially even longer.

This gets me to my biggest criticism of the new movies -- and Star Wars in general. It needs more room to breathe. I really wish George hadn't started foreshortening things all the way back in the early '80s. What started as an outline for twelve episodes -- half covering Obi-Wan's exploits, and half Luke's -- got chopped to nine when George decided there wasn't enough material (ha) for six Obi-Wan episodes, then just three when he decided he was tired of Star Wars and crammed the last four Luke episodes into one and went off to make Howard the Duck. That got expanded again to six when Rick McCallum prevailed upon him to do the Obi-Wan episodes after all -- but re-contextualized the entire six-episode series as being about Anakin and his rise, fall, and redemption.

I was annoyed at JJ's "mystery box" meaning we went into TFA utterly clueless about what had transpired since the Ewok party. The whole point of serial storytelling is to link the episodes with cliffhangers. Any big time-jumps should happen -- and clearly -- within the episodes themselves, or be called out and explained in the first line of the opening crawl of the next.

After seeing TLJ, I like it but I feel more than ever these also need to be six films to allow the story enough room to breathe and unfold organically. A hasty "re-write", in the vein of my earlier ones uncollapsing the prior films back out to twelve episodes (including Rogue One) and taking the focus back off Anakin is approximately (spoiler tags are just to be safe):
Skip the low on gas thing. They realize they're being tracked. So Finn and Rose go to take care of that, while the fleet disperses, each ship following a crazy and pointless course to lead the First Order on a merry chase. I can think of several potential places to put a cliffhanger in there. I'll have to see it at least once more to nail down the best break-points. This would get resolved at the beginning of the following episode, which would see them hole up on Crait (which I enjoyed, as I saw it referenced in the Rogue One visual guide and in Leia: Princess of Alderaan). The next cliffhanger would be about where things are left before the coda with the stable-hands.
So yeah, I think there's a good two or so episodes worth of stuff in here.

All the actual story beats, though, I don't have a problem with. One I'll address here:
Yoda. Loved his scene. No issues with his capabilities. Wonderfully in line with what George had intended for Obi-Wan. Almost immediately after he was cut down, he manifested to Luke as a disembodied voice. When he next manifested, it was as an indistinct, distant figure. Then, some indeterminate time later, he was closer and clearer, but still pretty static. The next time he appeared, he was walking around trees and sat on a log next to Luke to talk about things. He was ultimately going to cross back over to corporeality to help Luke beat the Emperor, but George decided (correctly, IMO) that that would undercut Luke's victory. So I have no issue at all with Yoda, thirty years after merging with the Force, being able to bonk Luke on the head and call down lightning. "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." He also looks a bit younger than when last we encountered him. Maybe not young-adulthood, but still... Makes me hope we'll see more Force ghosts advising Rey in Episode IX. Maybe even Luke's.
Another one I'll touch on now is:
Leia's demonstration of Force ability. She had thirty years. Even if her ultimate focus was politics, she had to have trained with Luke somewhat, even if only to find out what she was capable of. She demonstrated a pretty strong awareness of remote goings-on when she felt Han die in TFA. This was... Actually, this was nothing. She didn't move. She didn't "fly". She was in space. She focused, she pulled on the ship, and because it was much more massive than she, she was the one who moved toward it, rather than vice versa. No need for anything fancier.
And lastly for now:
Poe's first scene. I'm seeing a lot of people balking at the humor here. Saying it's out of place and like that. I couldn't disagree more. Have y'all forgotten his meeting with Kylo? "...So who talks first? Do I talk first? Do you talk first?" He's a snarky, cocky hotshot. A bit like Han, who I could also see delivering his own version of that sort of dialogue, thirty years younger. He was stalling, buying time. Best way to do that is by distracting the commander of the First Order fleet by utterly winding him up.

A last not-very-spoiler-y thing. The "Casino planet". Canto Bight is the one terraformed city on Cantonica. It's in the Corporate Sector, and fits perfectly what we saw of the state of things there way back in Brian Daley's Han Solo novels. It's a sector out at the end of one of the GFFA's spiral arms where the Emperor gave corporate interests free reign to run things as they wanted, no oversight, their own security, government officials are Corporate Sector Authority execs, etc. It's been decades, and the Emperor's dead, so I don't expect thing to have remained completely unchanged, but it's a nice inclusion. As is one of the casino guests. The lady with the holographic head is Baroness Wayulia Tagge-Simoni, She's too old and frail to attend in person, so she's "there" via a droid body that projects a younger-looking version of her face.

And as a parting thought, I strongly recommend everyone read this review, whether you love TLJ or despise it. Seriously. Follow the link and read the whole thing. Please.

--Jonah
 
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I was upset and confused after seeing it the first time. After going a second, I feel better about it and the emotional stuff with Luke hit me a lot more, and his motives seemed to make more sense. Not sure why it felt better but it did.
 
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