Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
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The same goes for Rambo: First Bloof Pt.1 and a ton of other movies.
Hey Gang,
OK... I've had time to digest Ep VIII and I think I've finally come to a conclusion. I liked the movie a lot but it fell short in one key area. Using the "American Football" analogy I felt that TLJ successfully moved the ball down the field, fumbled but recovered in a few scenes, made the final touchdown but missed the field goal. Why?
TFA did several things. It established a new set of characters, how they will play out in the films to come and, more important, we got to say goodbye to our favorite scoundrel. HS appeared on screen one more time and we got to see everything! We got to see him home in the MF, point his finger at Chewie, fire his blaster, visit an old watering hole, complain about hyperdrive, etc etc etc... he got to do all the things we loved when we were kids. We all enjoyed one last adventure before saying goodbye. It was a fitting end to a classic character.
I understand that we have to transition and "pass the torch" to a new generation of characters and in essence a new fan base. I get it and I totally accept that. But this was NOT the way I wanted to say goodbye to Luke. I felt VERY uncomfortable when he simply tossed his fathers Lightsaber over his shoulder. The very saber that seemed to find its way back to Luke after 30+ years. The expression on Luke's face at the end of TFA was not one of "eh". IMO, the saber signified the entire Skywalker timeline. To have it tossed over a shoulder then smashed/crushed into two was a real let down considering how treasured the saber was to Maz since it was established as an important plot device in Ep VII. Didn't the saber call out to Rey? Compound that with the idea of simply burning down the entire history of the Jedi? Did I miss something between 7 & 8? I feel a huge disconnect between the two films.
I could go on and on and on but... I understand the need to turn the page but, like the saber, I personally felt tossed aside to make way for something new. When compared to how the Solo character was treated in TFA, the Luke Skywalker timeline was tossed aside and fell flat. I totally understand the anger and frustration with some fans... but it is what it is.
Again, I enjoyed the movie! I hope Luke does come back in the next film and we're able to close loop and finally get some questions answered. Anywho, that's my two cents.
OK... I've had time to digest Ep VIII and I think I've finally come to a conclusion. I liked the movie a lot but it fell short in one key area. Using the "American Football" analogy I felt that TLJ successfully moved the ball down the field, fumbled but recovered in a few scenes, made the final touchdown but missed the field goal. Why?
TFA did several things. It established a new set of characters, how they will play out in the films to come and, more important, we got to say goodbye to our favorite scoundrel. HS appeared on screen one more time and we got to see everything! We got to see him home in the MF, point his finger at Chewie, fire his blaster, visit an old watering hole, complain about hyperdrive, etc etc etc... he got to do all the things we loved when we were kids. We all enjoyed one last adventure before saying goodbye. It was a fitting end to a classic character.
I understand that we have to transition and "pass the torch" to a new generation of characters and in essence a new fan base. I get it and I totally accept that. But this was NOT the way I wanted to say goodbye to Luke. I felt VERY uncomfortable when he simply tossed his fathers Lightsaber over his shoulder. The very saber that seemed to find its way back to Luke after 30+ years. The expression on Luke's face at the end of TFA was not one of "eh". IMO, the saber signified the entire Skywalker timeline. To have it tossed over a shoulder then smashed/crushed into two was a real let down considering how treasured the saber was to Maz since it was established as an important plot device in Ep VII. Didn't the saber call out to Rey? Compound that with the idea of simply burning down the entire history of the Jedi? Did I miss something between 7 & 8? I feel a huge disconnect between the two films.
I could go on and on and on but... I understand the need to turn the page but, like the saber, I personally felt tossed aside to make way for something new. When compared to how the Solo character was treated in TFA, the Luke Skywalker timeline was tossed aside and fell flat. I totally understand the anger and frustration with some fans... but it is what it is.
Again, I enjoyed the movie! I hope Luke does come back in the next film and we're able to close loop and finally get some questions answered. Anywho, that's my two cents.
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<br>Excellent choices. Almost all of them are IMO character driven movies with a huge amount of story telling layers that you can peel away to find depth in. Some are great examples for a wholesome movie art work such as "The Big Lebowski", where the amount of semiotic information conveyed by the grandiose art direction does not stand out on first viewing, or Seven Samurai for its impeccable story telling against Good, Bad, Ugly as genre movies across two continents and cultures. I love seeing Robocop in there for its reimagination of the Frankenstein topic and what makes a man a man in contrast to Iron Giant, Dancer in the Dark as a disturbing character piece by the complex and complicated Lars von Trier (who is a REALLY complicated man), Run Lola Run because of its fresh style and narrative (and some distant personal work relations to that movie because Tykwer is one German director right out of my german neighbourhood).<br>Those movies are IMO quite flawless. They are all master pieces, although I for example do not like Jackie Brown too much or Three Kings, but I can still acknowledge the craftsmanship.<br><br>But especially if I take all of the aforementioned movies and look back at how they were crafted and all the important ingredients were woven together, there is nothing that seems to be left to chance, especially that look onto TLJ makes it so clear that it is NOT a well-crated movie.<br><br>Can TLJ
HanSolo2187
Active Member
Agreed. The biggest knock on this film (IMO) is not where they had Luke end up, but how they threw away all of the questions and mysteries from TFA:I understand that we have to transition and "pass the torch" to a new generation of characters and in essence a new fan base. I get it and I totally accept that. But this was NOT the way I wanted to say goodbye to Luke. I felt VERY uncomfortable when he simply tossed his fathers Lightsaber over his shoulder. The very saber that seemed to find its way back to Luke after 30+ years. The expression on Luke's face at the end of TFA was not one of "eh". IMO, the saber signified the entire Skywalker timeline. To have it tossed over a shoulder then smashed/crushed into two was a real let down considering how treasured the saber was to Maz since it was established as an important plot device in Ep VII. Didn't the saber call out to Rey? Compound that with the idea of simply burning down the entire history of the Jedi? Did I miss something between 7 & 8? I feel a huge disconnect between the two films.
I could go on and on and on but... I understand the need to turn the page but, like the saber, I personally felt tossed aside to make way for something new. When compared to how the Solo character was treated in TFA, the Luke Skywalker timeline was tossed aside and fell flat. I totally understand the anger and frustration with some fans... but it is what it is.
Again, I enjoyed the movie! I hope Luke does come back in the next film and we're able to close loop and finally get some questions answered. Anywho, that's my two cents.
- The lightsaber.
- The map to Luke.
- Rey's parents.
- Snoke's backstory.
- The Knights of Ren.
- Rey's vision (with a heavy dose of Obi Wan in it).
- Kylo talking to Vader (show me, again, Grandfather).
- Maz
- Why Rey can speak Wookie, droid, etc.
Its almost as if there is NO overarching story arc that Kathleen Kennedy and Co. have outlined for these movies. Its like - here you go Rian, do whatever you want - we don't care. I have a BIG problem with that. From the interviews I've heard from Rian, he didn't have any guidance or restrictions on where he could go with the script.
DarthLee
Sr Member
I agree,
And thats perfectly fine if you want to go out and do your own thing. Just make it a stand alone movie.
The Great Pyramids of Egypt. Who every made the third pyramid, did not make it a square and called it a pyramid.
Rogue1Luvr
Active Member
The best Star Wars movies are Rogue One, Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back. I don't get all of the hate surrounding Rogue One at all. It's a film made out of a LOT of love and care. It has a terrific cast and a great story.
ower
Active Member
I'd argue because GL was trying to build a world and tell a story, the current Directors of R1, TFA and TLJ are SW fanboys who grew up and are now making a studio backed fanfilms. They're not interested in really telling a thought out story, they want to re-create all the action and cool **** they use to dream up when they were playing with their SW toys and running around outside playing make believe. It's why you have giant plot holes, revisionism and poor narratives. They need just enough story, flimsy as it is to get form one action scene to the next.
Greenie
Sr Member
We we used to play that game at school . Write a few narrative sentences, fold the page over and pass it to the next kid. By the time it gets round the whole class, we've written a story, disjointed and incoherent.
HanSolo2187
Active Member
Pretty sad that this game is now between JJ and Rian with Kathleen looking over their shoulders saying "whatcha got there?" Not what I expected for this franchise. Does anyone think Bob Eiger knows this is how they are handling their $4B investment?
The Brahma Bull
Sr Member
Which is funny because most people, in fact I don't know anyone who disagrees, say that ESB is the best episode. ESB was the most story driven movie of all of Star Wars. It really shaped the characters and moved the story further on. Not even Lucas seemed to understand that if we take a look back at the PT. Nowadays there are plot holes and poor narrative. It's just about an investment in moments not in an arc for a trilogy.
Lucas wanted the PT looking and being different. Which is absolutely OK with me and like I said earlier in this thread I now can kinda enjoy them a bit (atleast till I saw PLinketts reviews earlier today), but the story telling suffers under his overuse of technics. The story telling in the OT was quite different and in some kind JJ Abrams got this. There was action, but it told a story, it enabled character developement on a visual level. See what's happening to them rather than talk about it.
TLJ is the opposite. Lot's of talking, less showing. Something happens on screen, but they'll have to many conversations about everything which have often no point and take anything away from the visuals.
TFA, like I said before, was a remake of ANH, but it got stuff done, introduced characters and was setting up plots. TLJ did not understand it's own predecessor. It explained things away from the plot of TFA and gave answers to questions nobody asks instead of continue or even build up a story.
Mr Webber
Master Member
Couldnt agree more. A famous and very successful Director recently stated that its a mistake to hand the keys to a movie with such a huge budget and legacy over to someone who has only two, much smaller scale productions under their belt. To then leave this Director and writer basically unsupervised through the whole process falls straight at the feet of those claiming to be in charge. But, its making money so who cares right.
astroboy
Master Member
The thing is, Disney is trying, desperately, to put lighting back in a bottle.Couldnt agree more. A famous and very successful Director recently stated that its a mistake to hand the keys to a movie with such a huge budget and legacy over to someone who has only two, much smaller scale productions under their belt. To then leave this Director and writer basically unsupervised through the whole process falls straight at the feet of those claiming to be in charge. But, its making money so who cares right.
They realize how independent and brave Lucas was, so they think that's the approach they need to take. But they still can't really admit that it was from the mind of Lucas.
No one else is George lucas
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Mr Webber
Master Member
Maybe they could at least bring him back as a Producer. That is if he even wants to be involved at all with this.
Yes, he knows exactly what's going on and that there result is three films that have earned back that $4B investment and that's not counting merchandise, licensing, anilRry media, etc. Bob Igor is one of the most respected CEO's in the world and for good reason. Kathleen Kennedy runs LucasFilm and has a huge amount of autonomous and Iger's faith in her is unshakable after how strong these films have performed right out of the box.
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Not a single word of this is true.
No, not necessarily. Make money? Yes. But the financial success of TFA, R1, and now TLJ is in excess of what Disney told shareholders when they mafde the acquisition. Why? Because the product is great and resonating with audiences. I understand if you don't like these new films that fact causes some cognitive dissonance with one's worldview of the franchise but it was entirely possible to screw this up. They haven't.
Greenie
Sr Member
Is someone else George Lucus?
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