MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Merely putting a laugh track over a backwards recitation of the plot does not prove objectively bad writing.
"...and Holdo wouldn't tell Poe her plan because she hates men." <-- This isn't an example of objectively bad writing. It's an example of RLM inserting their own interpretation of the situation into their review, largely in a juvenile attempt at being funny. And that's what the majority of the video is: Them using stuff they didn't like or agree with as a platform for humor.
This doesn't invalidate their OPINIONS. Likewise, just because their opinions happen to align with your dislike of the film doesn't make their opinions objective facts about the film.
The problem here is that you and RLM are confusing comedy as a story structure, and comedy as a humorous event -- which are two very different things.
In classic writing, "comedy" refers to a basic plotting device of establishing characters "destined" to be together, but an event or events (external events beyond their control and internal events, such as miscommunication) continually prevent them from doing so until they overcome the obstacles and are together in the end.
Sound familiar? It's essentially the story structure of the entire Han and Leia relationship in the original trilogy. It's the story structure of all of ESB (Plinkett even acknowledged that ESB was essentially structured like a sitcom -- but was fine with that because it didn't support the narrative of blasting TLJ for the exact same thing.)
The thing about the comedy story structure is that it isn't about the humor. It's about the situations: events keeping the characters apart as long as possible. Making a comedy funny is one way to handle it. Another is to make it a tragedy (see: Titanic). So Star Wars has used the comedy story structure for at least aspects of its plotting since day one.
Coming to the conclusion that TLJ is objectively bad for doing the same is objectively wrong.
Again, disliking the film because of personal disagreements with the choices made is one thing. Trying to convince the world that the film is objectively bad because you don't like it is tilting at windmills. But then, I suppose, trying to convince you of that is just another windmill...
No, of course the laugh track doesn't prove anything. The point-by-point analysis proving that the characters are acting like foolish comedy types and large parts of the plot are driven by those decisions does.
The "Holdo hates men" line is just a joke that plays on the notion some have that SW is now feminist (Force is female, etc). You seriously did not understand that was humor? RLM also goes over Holdo refusing to tell Poe the plan because she is a higher rank and expects him to just follow orders. This is the real criticism and is factually what happens in the movie.
Her decision is akin to refusing to tell people the escape plan during a fire, which is a decision any reasonable person would find foolish. This feeds into the writing failures that have the plot moving forward mostly due to characters making objectively stupid decisions.....like a comedy.
You are using a single definition of comedy of unknown origin. I'd like to see your source on that, especially since there have been numerous definitions of comedy throughout the ages. I'd also point out that Star Wars is not a classical work, it is a modern work. And the modern definition of comedy is a work with humorous elements, like Yo Mama jokes, hot potato saber tosses, people running around in leaking bags of water, and putting a droid under a box to disguise it as another droid. Any subplot in any work of fiction is a B or C or D, etc plot. It is not confined to sitcoms. If anything he was probably just using that as a convenient point of comparison because Mike was thinking of comedic story structure while writing the review out.
If the same structure can be applied to two highly different stories (comedy/tragedy), then what your really describing is just a general story structure. But you call it "Classic comedy" to try and sell the notion that the OT is structured like a comedy too.
RLM concluded that TLJ is objectively bad because the plot is driven forth by characters making decisions that any reasonable person would find ill-thought. And for other reasons as discussed in the video, but that is a primary point.
Currently, I'm not trying to convince the world that TLJ is a bad movie. A highly exaggerated claim on your part. I'm discussing the Plinkett review of it.