Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
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sztriki
Sr Member
Beat me to it! :lol
Now only have to wait 3 hours til I get home from work...
Solo4114
Master Member
Wait, so, let me get this straight.
The Last Jedi's status as a "piece of ****" was in dispute UNTIL Plinkett spoke, and, having spoken, he's issued the final word on the subject?
Because that's what your "Suck it, TLJ defenders" statement certainly implies: that Plinkett's commentary bestows both an air of legitimacy and a final word on what essentially amounts to subjective opinions of a segment of the franchise's fan base.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
RLM made "Space Cop". While I might agree with their sentiments on TLJ, nonetheless, they made "Space Cop" and their opinions are invalid.
LordHorusNL
Well-Known Member
Why would it invalidate their opinion, they've always acknowledged Space Cops "crappiness":lol
Solo4114
Master Member
So, I skimmed the video in about...eh..10 min or so. I was...unimpressed. Most of the stuff the guy points out are just, you know, nitpicks. It's nothing that strikes me as objective criticism of how the film doesn't work as a film. It's more about "I wanted something different." That and the usual discussions like "The characters didn't act logically."
Look, back in the TPM days, this stuff was a lot less common. But now? Every ******* with a Youtube account can post a video offering their "incisive takedown" of XYZ film, and has basically made the same points over and over and over.
Also, I don't know if the quality of their criticism of TPM went downhill for this criticism video, or if it was never that good and I just viewed it differently, but I have to say I didn't see anything in my skim of the video that really explored anything other than surface level stuff. It's mostly "This wasn't logical" and "that isn't what you'd expect them to do" and "that decision was a dumb decision." I tend to think criticisms of this sort are what you hang your hat on when the film just doesn't work for you subjectively on a gut level, because it's not really about the film failing on an objective level. Like, saying "Why doesn't everyone just get in three ships and fly in three different directions? Their plan is dumb" doesn't really get at a fundamental flaw of the film; it points out a mistake that characters made. I think it's much more of a valid criticism to say that, for example, Finn's close friendship with Poe isn't really earned through the course of TFA, and therefore makes little sense in TLJ. For example, in TFA, Finn and Poe barely interact during the course of the film; they escape the First Order ship together, get shot down, you think Poe is dead, and then they meet up on the base at the end and act like they're best friends when they've basically known each other for all of 30 minutes or whatever, and then continue this behavior in TLJ. That's the film relying upon the positions the characters occupy to act as shortcuts for them actually building an emotional connection between each other. To me, that's much closer to an objective failure of the films than, say, the fact that their plan for escaping the FO fleet is crappy or that Holdo could've just told Poe "Here's my plan" instead of withholding it from him.
Look, back in the TPM days, this stuff was a lot less common. But now? Every ******* with a Youtube account can post a video offering their "incisive takedown" of XYZ film, and has basically made the same points over and over and over.
Also, I don't know if the quality of their criticism of TPM went downhill for this criticism video, or if it was never that good and I just viewed it differently, but I have to say I didn't see anything in my skim of the video that really explored anything other than surface level stuff. It's mostly "This wasn't logical" and "that isn't what you'd expect them to do" and "that decision was a dumb decision." I tend to think criticisms of this sort are what you hang your hat on when the film just doesn't work for you subjectively on a gut level, because it's not really about the film failing on an objective level. Like, saying "Why doesn't everyone just get in three ships and fly in three different directions? Their plan is dumb" doesn't really get at a fundamental flaw of the film; it points out a mistake that characters made. I think it's much more of a valid criticism to say that, for example, Finn's close friendship with Poe isn't really earned through the course of TFA, and therefore makes little sense in TLJ. For example, in TFA, Finn and Poe barely interact during the course of the film; they escape the First Order ship together, get shot down, you think Poe is dead, and then they meet up on the base at the end and act like they're best friends when they've basically known each other for all of 30 minutes or whatever, and then continue this behavior in TLJ. That's the film relying upon the positions the characters occupy to act as shortcuts for them actually building an emotional connection between each other. To me, that's much closer to an objective failure of the films than, say, the fact that their plan for escaping the FO fleet is crappy or that Holdo could've just told Poe "Here's my plan" instead of withholding it from him.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
I say it because first they crap on other directors' work, then make their own crap movie to make fun of those directors, but it comes out crappy in the opposite way they intended. All they did was prove the old adage about why there are dedicated critics in the first place.
I can laugh at them sometimes, sure. But I put no more stock in their analysis than any other halfway intelligent person really.
I can laugh at them sometimes, sure. But I put no more stock in their analysis than any other halfway intelligent person really.
sztriki
Sr Member
There is some legit criticism there, like the tone of the movie, how structurally it’s built up more as a comedy movie than anything serious, how the characters’ state of mind is completely against the events that just transpired...guess a quick skim won’t really reveal any lengthier stream of thought.
But as a footnote I agree that the intensity, depth and quality is nowhere the old ones. The prequels/Indy4/Titanic reviews took them years to make instead of “finish this reltively shortly after the Dvd comes out”. I did feel that the old fire was not there, probably because most of the stuff has been said and done by mny others, as you say every other guy on youtube. Guess there’s a reason why the title is The Last Plinkett Review.
Quick thought, you seem to deflect most of the criticism towards TLJ back to TFA but here's what I don't get: who threw out any previously outlined plot treatments, wrote and directed therefore made the decisions in TLJ at the end of the day?
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Solo4114
Master Member
I guess I'd have to look at those bits more closely (the tone of the film). I get the "madcap comedy" critique, but again, I'd have to review that more closely to refute it. Based on my recollection of the film, I don't see it as actually being that. I mean, I get the notion of "plans go awry and the characters have to go to great lengths to make it work," but...so what? Like, that doesn't make it a bad film in an objective sense. It makes it a film that's incongruous with fan expectations/desires, sure, but that doesn't make it bad in an objective sense. The fact that the film is structured like a madcap comedy, where you end up with a series of mishaps that push the characters into a range of different situations, and where there's a lot of movement and transition between characters...doesn't really matter. (I also dispute the "four C stories" notion -- it's more like an A story between Rey, Luke, and Kylo/Ben; and a B story between Poe, Finn, Rose, and -- to a much lesser extent -- Holdo and Leia. The storylines on the Resistance fleet/Finn and Rose's mission thing are fundamentally connected to the point that I see them as different aspects of the same story.) I dunno. Maybe the video complains about how the humor is misplaced and undercuts the darkness. I think that's more a matter of taste, like how much salt do you want in your meal.
Where's the bit about characters' states of mind not matching what just happened? The thing about the ship exploding and people talking in the background? That strikes me as extreme nitpicking and can be just as easily applied to the OT (e.g. the "cheer" when the first transport escapes Hoth).
Axlotl
Master Member
I was a bit disappointed with this critique, as well.
I was really looking forward to it, too...
Definitely didn't live up to my expectations.
Hey... wait a minute!...
Plinkett subverted my expectations!!
Curse you, Plinkett!!
Could this critique actually be a masterpiece and I'm too misogynistic to realize it?
I was really looking forward to it, too...
Definitely didn't live up to my expectations.
Hey... wait a minute!...
Plinkett subverted my expectations!!
Curse you, Plinkett!!
Could this critique actually be a masterpiece and I'm too misogynistic to realize it?
Space Cop is purposefully schlock. It's an hour version of the moronic crap they do on Half in the Bag.
Zuiun
Sr Member
As with literally *ALL* criticism, the opinions of the critic has to be filtered through their own bias. For example, I disagreed with Roger Ebert on a great many reviews, despite him being my all time favorite film critic. The thing is, I knew what his biases were -- and he was consistent with them -- so I could appreciate his reviews.
The guys behind the Plinket reviews are heavily biased toward Star Trek over Star Wars, and that bias tends to influence their opinions of the Star Wars films. This isn't to say that they are "wrong." They are expressing their own opinions. But their bias is strong.
So yeah... I can agree with you about not being overly impressed with their take on the film. And the notion that some others have expressed that this is somehow the "definitive" take on TLJ is pretty ridiculous. These are just a group of guys who have built their fame on the popularity of a vulgar, horrible, character. Entertaining? Sure. Definitive? Not so fast...
DARKSIDE72
Sr Member
Nailed MOST of it. TLJ is a garbage film any way you look at it...........IMO.
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