Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%

  • Total voters
    578
Here's been my experience, outside of the RPF, with respect to people's reaction to the films.

I know a lot of Star Wars fans. Not all of them are as steeped in the culture as I am, but a lot of them are. Some are OT only, some are OT but don't mind the SEs, some like the OT and PT, some know the EU although many don't. One guy was a contributing author at West End Games and wrote one of the D6 RPG sourcebooks.

With one, maybe two exceptions, everyone really enjoyed the movie. Many rank it just behind Empire as their favorite Star Wars movie. None of them -- aside from the 1-2 exceptions I mentioned -- had a problem with how the characters were handled, what they did, how they were portrayed, etc. These are all people who are about my age -- ranging from mid-to-late 30s up to early-to-mid 40s.

Several of the female fans talked about how awesome it has been to see a character like Rey on the screen, because it let's them feel like Star Wars can truly be "theirs," too. That's something they said they didn't really feel when it was about Luke and Anakin, or at least didn't feel the same way. They loved Leia, thought Padme was ok, but there wasn't that central hero in whom they could see themselves. Now there is, and they love it.

Most of them loved the messages in the film.

Most of them have said that there were a few "WTF?!" moments in the movie, and everyone has their particular criticisms, but on the whole, it didn't diminish their enjoyment of the films.


I think they're a pretty representative cross-sample of Star Wars fandom, ranging from the OT purists to the EU creators to the more casual fans who know and love the films but haven't committed them completely to memory or who don't get bent out of shape by things like the awful color timing in the SE blu-rays and DVDs or whathaveyou. And as I said, they've almost all found the film to be good-to-great.

My point here is that, while there is certainly a vocal group within the fandom that dislikes this film, and while their opinions are valid and they're entitled to them (even if I disagree with them), the notion that this film is an objective failure for all fans is simply not the case. My anecdotal experience doesn't bear that out, and the numbers don't bear that out. I recognize that the intarwebz may make it seem like there's this huge uproar against the film, but I think it's more accurate to say that it has not been met with universal acclaim but has generally been well received. The film also clearly doesn't "betray the fandom," because a goodly portion of "the fandom" seems to like it just fine.

None of this is to say that people aren't entitled to find the film unsatisfying or wish it had been different. Nor is it to say that I have no sympathy for them. As I've said, I went through feeling like "Star Wars isn't for me anymore" after the PT. But that view (1) seems to be a minority view, and (2) it's a real shame because I think there's much that one could like in this new setting.

I'll say that even if you dislike what's currently happening with the films, wait to see what's going to happen with the additional material set in the Sequel Trilogy milieu. You may find things to enjoy the way I have with the PT era. I still don't "enjoy" those films, and view them as fundamentally flawed in many ways. But I've come to appreciate the setting itself and the stories that can be told within those settings. Also, remember that Star Wars has grown exponentially in recent years, and it's not like ALL we have are the tentpole movies anymore. I think we'll see good stuff come of the ST, even if the films themselves don't fully satisfy.

Anecdotedly I had a similar polling of local people, one out of ten didn't like it, the rest were very positive.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's been my experience, outside of the RPF, with respect to people's reaction to the films.

I know a lot of Star Wars fans. Not all of them are as steeped in the culture as I am, but a lot of them are. Some are OT only, some are OT but don't mind the SEs, some like the OT and PT, some know the EU although many don't. One guy was a contributing author at West End Games and wrote one of the D6 RPG sourcebooks.

With one, maybe two exceptions, everyone really enjoyed the movie. Many rank it just behind Empire as their favorite Star Wars movie. None of them -- aside from the 1-2 exceptions I mentioned -- had a problem with how the characters were handled, what they did, how they were portrayed, etc. These are all people who are about my age -- ranging from mid-to-late 30s up to early-to-mid 40s.

Several of the female fans talked about how awesome it has been to see a character like Rey on the screen, because it let's them feel like Star Wars can truly be "theirs," too. That's something they said they didn't really feel when it was about Luke and Anakin, or at least didn't feel the same way. They loved Leia, thought Padme was ok, but there wasn't that central hero in whom they could see themselves. Now there is, and they love it.

Most of them loved the messages in the film.

Most of them have said that there were a few "WTF?!" moments in the movie, and everyone has their particular criticisms, but on the whole, it didn't diminish their enjoyment of the films.


I think they're a pretty representative cross-sample of Star Wars fandom, ranging from the OT purists to the EU creators to the more casual fans who know and love the films but haven't committed them completely to memory or who don't get bent out of shape by things like the awful color timing in the SE blu-rays and DVDs or whathaveyou. And as I said, they've almost all found the film to be good-to-great.

My point here is that, while there is certainly a vocal group within the fandom that dislikes this film, and while their opinions are valid and they're entitled to them (even if I disagree with them), the notion that this film is an objective failure for all fans is simply not the case. My anecdotal experience doesn't bear that out, and the numbers don't bear that out. I recognize that the intarwebz may make it seem like there's this huge uproar against the film, but I think it's more accurate to say that it has not been met with universal acclaim but has generally been well received. The film also clearly doesn't "betray the fandom," because a goodly portion of "the fandom" seems to like it just fine.

None of this is to say that people aren't entitled to find the film unsatisfying or wish it had been different. Nor is it to say that I have no sympathy for them. As I've said, I went through feeling like "Star Wars isn't for me anymore" after the PT. But that view (1) seems to be a minority view, and (2) it's a real shame because I think there's much that one could like in this new setting.

I'll say that even if you dislike what's currently happening with the films, wait to see what's going to happen with the additional material set in the Sequel Trilogy milieu. You may find things to enjoy the way I have with the PT era. I still don't "enjoy" those films, and view them as fundamentally flawed in many ways. But I've come to appreciate the setting itself and the stories that can be told within those settings. Also, remember that Star Wars has grown exponentially in recent years, and it's not like ALL we have are the tentpole movies anymore. I think we'll see good stuff come of the ST, even if the films themselves don't fully satisfy.

Anecdotedly I had a similar polling of local people, one out of ten didn't like it, the rest were very positive.
 
Agreed. I was ready to walk long before they showed us just how much of wuss Luke had become.

I love Kevin Smith but you just can't take hi seriously with Star Wars. Every new Star Wars is the best Star Wars ever with him and it only got worse when JJ let him walk around the falcon set on TFA.
Maybe it's just me, but a "wuss" doesn't force project knowing he's going to die. It was a sacrifice ala what Ben Kenobi did in Star Wars. I understand that he could have been there in person (and should have, to many) - but, much like Obi Wan did on Tatooine, Luke was in seclusion (under different circumstances, obviously).

While I will agree about Kevin Smith for the most part. He did say there were a few things about TLJ that he would have done differently. He is far from solid critic - on just about anything. He also talked about how TLJ undid some things that TFA did (ironically, I mentioned something similar a ways back without knowing Smith talked about this). I do admire his passion as he did post as hour and thirty minute vlog review. He's kinda reflection of all the negative posting we see about the movie - there's plenty of positivity surrounding TLJ just as there is negative comments.

- - - Updated - - -

Anecdotedly I had a similar polling of local people, one out of ten didn't like it, the rest were very positive.

- - - Updated - - -



Anecdotedly I had a similar polling of local people, one out of ten didn't like it, the rest were very positive.
Everyone I've talked personally raved about TLJ. The one longtime fan - that wasn't too keen on TFA, liked TLJ a lot better, although he still had issues with the setup and premise ("...another evil empire?").
 
I heard Kevin say on one of his podcasts that he generally tries to give positive reviews of films or either he says nothing. He stated a reason which I don't really recall. But it seems like around the timeframe of Chasing Amy that he was being interviewed and the reporter asked him about another film. He says that he made some disparaging comments and then instantly regretted it. He says that since that incident, he decided to say positive things only. I think maybe it was Magnolia, but I'm not sure.
 
I heard Kevin say on one of his podcasts that he generally tries to give positive reviews of films or either he says nothing. He stated a reason which I don't really recall. But it seems like around the timeframe of Chasing Amy that he was being interviewed and the reporter asked him about another film. He says that he made some disparaging comments and then instantly regretted it. He says that since that incident, he decided to say positive things only. I think maybe it was Magnolia, but I'm not sure.
Well, his comments about Magnolia are somewhat infamous.

However, Kevin isn't (wasn't?) afraid to unleash a little fury about things here and there. He wasn't very kind with Batman vs Superman (although he loved Affleck). His Evening With Kevin Smith details the trials and tribulations with Superman (dissing a few bigwigs while doing so). He was also pretty vocal about working with Bruce Willis after directing him in Cop Out.
 
We are up at our cabin in the White Mountains of AZ. :)

(Sung to the tune of Rocky Raccoon)

Now somewhere in the White Mountain hills of Arizona lived a young man named Bryan CD.
One day his stock portfolio made a Star Wars film.
Paid no attention to the lore.
People didn't like that, they said #NotMyLuke.
 
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Re: the Kevin Smith thing.

I think there's fan expectations, and then there's fan expectations. I remember after the PT came out and people were dissatisfied, there was much discussion of "Oh, whatever, you just had a bunch of preconceived notions of how it should/would go." At the time, I rejected that notion. I didn't, because, in my mind, I didn't really have anything specific imagined. In other words, I hadn't thought "Ok, Anakin is gonna be like this, and then hes' gonna go and do that, and these other things will happen, and it's gonna be SO COOL!!!" Ergo, I had "no expectations."

But that wasn't really true. I did have expectations. Not expectations about characters or about the plot in terms of specifics, but I did have overarching expectations about the style of film I'd see, the general approach to characters and how they'd be portrayed, and the overall thrust of the plot in very broad strokes. I expected to see the actual Clone Wars, rather than the opening and closing battles thereof. I expected that Anakin would be a young man and not a 9-year-old boy, and he'd be met by an adult, full-fledged jedi version of Obi-Wan. I expected we'd see how the Emperor gradually gained control.

I also had plenty of stuff that I did NOT expect to see, like discussions of the finer points of trade disputes or parliamentary procedure. Or kiddie actors who yell "yippee!" with no sense of irony. Or the "Roger roger" droids. I expected that the film would have a general tone that was a lot more serious than what we saw, too. Less cartoon humor and fart jokes, and more menace to the droids. I expected we'd start in media res for the actual Clone Wars themselves in Episode I, and not 20 years prior to them.

So, it turned out, I did go in with expectations, and they were not met, which absolutely magnified my distaste for the prequels. I still think the prequels are failures in storytelling, and to the extent they succeeded at accomplishing the goal they set for themselves, I didn't find it very satisfactory to watch.

I think I probably would've been disappointed by the PT under any circumstances. But I think I would have felt a lot more satisfaction if I had been able to take them at face value, without having any expectations whatsoever. That's...really hard to do, though. I don't know how I've managed it for the sequel trilogy. Some of it is the media blackout thing, probably, but I did the same with AOTC and ROTS, and was still disappointed by them. Much of it, I think, is from taking a step back from my fandom and not consuming Star Wars with the same degree of intensity that I once did. I used to read a ton of the background stuff. I was deeply invested in the series. The disappointment of the PT gradually destroyed all of that for me, but on the other side of it, I'm now a lot more able to just...watch the movie for what it is and try to find enjoyment that way. They may still drop the ball. I expect to be disappointed by Solo (more because I find the concept itself uninspired, and because of the troubled production history), but in general, I think I am a lot more able to just walk into the theater and let the movie present itself to me on its own. Certainly I'm more able to do that than I used to be.
 
As if Kevin Smith would be be critical of The Last Jedi. A prime example of the old sincerity of self interest on steroids. The guy probably wants another minor role in Episode Nein after he got his dream fulfilled in TFA by his old buddy JJ. To expect anything else from him is a joke.

ADDITION. This will be an ever growing problem moving forward, as Planet Disney is going to be pretty much the only game in town with their
voracious appetite for all successful movie titles. Criticism of any of their work will be few and far between.
 
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(Sung to the tune of Rocky Raccoon)

Now somewhere in the White Mountain hills of Arizona lived a young man named Bryan CD.
One day his stock portfolio made a Star Wars film.
Paid no attention to the lore.
People didn't like that, they said #NotMyLuke.

All but the young part. :)
 
This will be an ever growing problem moving forward, as Planet Disney is going to be pretty much the only game in town with their
voracious appetite for all successful movie titles. Criticism of any of their work will be few and far between.

I think it's already a problem. You're only going to sing praises of an entity you hope to work for. And loudly.
 
I think there's fan expectations, and then there's fan expectations.
First off, your posts are generally well written and really well thought out. You could easily write for any number of publications with your thorough thoughtfulness. Kudos. You're absolutely correct. I think it's impossible to not have expectations when something that's been a huge part of many our lives.

re: Kevin Smith
While I think it might be fair to say that Kevin Smith's better days are behind him (at least moviewise - Tusk and Yoga Hosers?), it's ridiculous for some to dismiss him as they hail and post reviews and comments from others supporting their viewpoints. Kevin's a longtime fan - just like many of us. I don't agree with everything he says (he liked Justice League). Let's face it, he would be far more likely to work for DC than on a Star Wars film - and he's been shown to be critical of DC movies (notably BvS). (Despite his tell-all Superman Lives stories and his initial panning of BvS, he still got TV gigs directing both The Flash and Supergirl).

He's an unabashed, unapologetic fanboy and his view reflects the ideals of at least some of us. Again, it's just ridiculous how quickly some will attempt to dismiss him because he doesn't outright support their views. If we were to treat every video, review or critique posted here with the same sort standards and be more concerned with conspiracy theories (Kevin won't say anything negative because wants to work for Disney - or Bryan won't be negative because he has stock in Disney) - we'd spend more time talking about the people talking about the movies than the movies themselves.
 
First off, your posts are generally well written and really well thought out. You could easily write for any number of publications with your thorough thoughtfulness. Kudos. You're absolutely correct. I think it's impossible to not have expectations when something that's been a huge part of many our lives.

re: Kevin Smith
While I think it might be fair to say that Kevin Smith's better days are behind him (at least moviewise - Tusk and Yoga Hosers?), it's ridiculous for some to dismiss him as they hail and post reviews and comments from others supporting their viewpoints. Kevin's a longtime fan - just like many of us. I don't agree with everything he says (he liked Justice League). Let's face it, he would be far more likely to work for DC than on a Star Wars film - and he's been shown to be critical of DC movies (notably BvS). (Despite his tell-all Superman Lives stories and his initial panning of BvS, he still got TV gigs directing both The Flash and Supergirl).

He's an unabashed, unapologetic fanboy and his view reflects the ideals of at least some of us. Again, it's just ridiculous how quickly some will attempt to dismiss him because he doesn't outright support their views. If we were to treat every video, review or critique posted here with the same sort standards and be more concerned with conspiracy theories (Kevin won't say anything negative because wants to work for Disney - or Bryan won't be negative because he has stock in Disney) - we'd spend more time talking about the people talking about the movies than the movies themselves.

I'll say something negative about Disney! That mandatory multi-week TLJ run Disney forced on theater companies was ridiculous.
 
You just blew a few minds. I can almost smell the smoke coming from their ears. :lol

It was entirely unnecessary and doesn't reflect well on them, and to be sure Disney uses strong arm tactics often. Just look at their recent dust up with the City of Anaheim regarding some of their park expansion plans, the city was so sick of their demands they told them to basically F-off.
 
You just blew a few minds. I can almost smell the smoke coming from their ears. [emoji38]
That's not smoke, and it wasn't from my ears. Sorry about that. [emoji6]


It was entirely unnecessary and doesn't reflect well on them, and to be sure Disney uses strong arm tactics often. Just look at their recent dust up with the City of Anaheim regarding some of their park expansion plans, the city was so sick of their demands they told them to basically F-off.

It is nice to know that you feel that way, and that we agree on something Disney. Though, that I've been a passholder for 18 years now, should speak to my lifelong love of the park. It's one of the few places my brother and I spent a lot of time at, that's still there. The world has changed so much since he's been gone.

I do hate to see the strong arm tactics as well, because it just sounds bad to the general public, and can only create some ill-will in the long run.
 
But....

I liked Yoga Hosers!!

I won't let the door hit me on the ass on my way out.
:lol - I'm a Smith fan and couldn't make it through the movie, glad you liked it. I loved just about everything prior to Tusk (and even Tusk had some great moments for me). Maybe I need to give Yoga Hoser yet another chance.
 
As I have been indirectly accused of constantly coming into this thread trolling and antagonising people here who want to have a discussion about it in the Premium Members thread and asking why I have not been banned for such behaviour, I will refrain from commenting here moving forward. I will however reserve the right to respond to a pending individuals review of The Last Jedi.

My contribution to this forum is spread over the entire forum and to put that at risk over a small minority of people in this thread is absolutely not worth it. It will be interesting to see how this situation is handled by those same people. Many thanks to all who have posted likes to my comments. It is worth noting that I have never had to resort to personal attacks or insults at any time.
 
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