Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%

  • Total voters
    578
I took it as a positive thing. I wouldn't waste my time trying to fix Star Wars with my own crap fan version. To my mind, it's beyond fixing. I just took it as a way to say use my frustration to work on my own original content that has nothing to do with Star Wars.

Star Wars has been a vehicle of inspiration since it's inception. While the OT was a means of positive inspiration, there's no reason why everything else since can't be inspiring in a way too, even if that inspiration is to make something better than what has come from Lucasfilm of late.

Just look at Red Letter Media. Whether you love them or hate them, their Prequel reviews were so impactful that they make film reviews full time now. They took what they didn't like about those movies and used it as a vehicle to build something out of it.
 
What a load of crap. If we don't like their SW films we should make our own? Maybe the makers of these films should be making their own original stuff instead of ****ing on someone else's work.
I suggest looking up Ivan Ortega’s YT channel with his upcoming fan-edit. If for nothing else to see 1, that some people took up on the suggestion 2, to see how an editor should really think about a movie.
 
I suggest looking up Ivan Ortega’s YT channel with his upcoming fan-edit. If for nothing else to see 1, that some people took up on the suggestion 2, to see how an editor should really think about a movie.

What do you mean "to see how an editor should really think about a movie"?
 
206 out of 967 isn't even close to half... so there goes the "most people hated it" claim. And this is just within his tweet mentions.

Exactly, it's just within his mentions. When's the last time you disliked a movie and headed straight to twitter to tell the director directly? You would have to analyze all the tweets covering TLJ to get an accurate picture, and even then it would just be twitter.

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I suggest looking up Ivan Ortega’s YT channel with his upcoming fan-edit. If for nothing else to see 1, that some people took up on the suggestion 2, to see how an editor should really think about a movie.

If you haven't seen it, check out The Fallen Knight fanedit. It's pretty great.
 
Make our own Star Wars films? That'd be copyright infringement. Yes fanfilms in general get a pass. But if we would "get serious" with it, manage to get some actual actors involved and so on, then they would go after it like AXANAR. Even if unlike the AXANAR idiot, people wouldn't do it for money. No crowdfunding and so on... just for the love of Star Wars.
 
I don't think he was talking about making your own Star Wars movie. I think what he was saying to write your own stories. Rather than try and "fix" the TLJ, why not turn that frustration into writing a wholly original story?
 
I don't think he was talking about making your own Star Wars movie. I think what he was saying to write your own stories. Rather than try and "fix" the TLJ, why not turn that frustration into writing a wholly original story?

In a way, it's not dissimilar to that usual retort of "Oh, you think you can do better? Go right ahead and make a better one and we'll see how that turns out!!"
 
I suppose that's one way to see it. Given that this was written we don't have the context of tone. Had it been in video or in audio his tone in saying this could imply a different meaning altogether. I will say that it certainly doesn't come across quote as confrontational as some of the other cast/ crew responses have been.
 
Hang on a second.
Has LFL actually dismissed or insulted fans like you specifically? Have they actually called fans like you names?
While that's true and a fair point they're still driving the narrative and public opinion.
I remember when TFA came out and everyone was enamored with it I was kind of disappointed a bit. Everyone was reciting the "well, everything's changed but nothing has changed and that's where you want to be" and "real practical effects done with a lot of heart" mantras from the short featurette. Then I slowly warmed up to it because my mindset was "okay, it's a rehash of ANH, but there are some interesting characters and a promise that it would be developed somewhere interesting".
Then when Rogue One came out the narrative was that "this is a very different Star Wars movie, it's gritty, it has an original approach" and people who previously loved TFA turned against it instantly saying "it was a remake of the original BUT BOOOOOOY R1 is a real original thing you should go and see it again and again!" (cue cash register ringing). Literally had this conversation with a guy I know from my old bar. When TFA came out he was raving how great it was and I was like meh. Later when we met and R1 was out I said I didn't like it and I actually very much preferred TFA and he just waved "naah, it's a remake of Ep4, this is much more original".
There's always an official narrative that is aimed to sell the product. It's no different to any other product.
With TLJ the official narrative is that "this is a very unexpected but a very right story direction". Plus tidbits with name-calling for racist fans and the like. So people follow this narrative. I swear it was extremely jarring to see countless comments under anything TLJ saying "aaaah, manbabies can't accept that their fan-theory didn't work?" and "3-2-1 incoming whiny fanboys" and "what's up fanboys, still salty?" and "pathetic people crying over not getting a movie they imagined". All those are standalone comments, not replies to anyone complaining. People were flat out provoking people who were unhappy about the movie and saying that THEY were toxic.
So when you have that sort of environment and the director tweets what he tweeted day in and out and releases a "your Snoke theory sucks" photo or someone directly associated with Lucasfilm tweeting that "you have no ownership over this property and you're not even a customer of ours if you buy a Star Wars product" then yea I kinda put some of the blame on the company for this environment.
I don't think it's an apology or an admission that anyone is looking for, it's simply not fanning the flames. A simple statement "we took a risk because we felt the franchise needs to go in a particular direction and we appreciate that this is divisive and we can assure fans of the old that there's plenty of material coming for them as well" would be all most people are looking for. Why do you think fans run to Mark Hamill like a kid runs to mum after dad slaps their butt? He's the only one who can and will speak for them and actually consider them.
 
Make our own Star Wars films? That'd be copyright infringement. Yes fanfilms in general get a pass. But if we would "get serious" with it, manage to get some actual actors involved and so on, then they would go after it like AXANAR. Even if unlike the AXANAR idiot, people wouldn't do it for money. No crowdfunding and so on... just for the love of Star Wars.

You really need to check out the Star Wars Fan Awards. I can't remember if which of these two won, but they're some of my favorite films.


And this one is currently my favorite Star Wars fan film ever

 
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While that's true and a fair point they're still driving the narrative and public opinion.

I remember when TFA came out and everyone was enamored with it I was kind of disappointed a bit. Everyone was reciting the "well, everything's changed but nothing has changed and that's where you want to be" and "real practical effects done with a lot of heart" mantras from the short featurette. Then I slowly warmed up to it because my mindset was "okay, it's a rehash of ANH, but there are some interesting characters and a promise that it would be developed somewhere interesting".

Then when Rogue One came out the narrative was that "this is a very different Star Wars movie, it's gritty, it has an original approach" and people who previously loved TFA turned against it instantly saying "it was a remake of the original BUT BOOOOOOY R1 is a real original thing you should go and see it again and again!" (cue cash register ringing). Literally had this conversation with a guy I know from my old bar. When TFA came out he was raving how great it was and I was like meh. Later when we met and R1 was out I said I didn't like it and I actually very much preferred TFA and he just waved "naah, it's a remake of Ep4, this is much more original".

There's always an official narrative that is aimed to sell the product. It's no different to any other product.

With TLJ the official narrative is that "this is a very unexpected but a very right story direction". Plus tidbits with name-calling for racist fans and the like. So people follow this narrative. I swear it was extremely jarring to see countless comments under anything TLJ saying "aaaah, manbabies can't accept that their fan-theory didn't work?" and "3-2-1 incoming whiny fanboys" and "what's up fanboys, still salty?" and "pathetic people crying over not getting a movie they imagined". All those are standalone comments, not replies to anyone complaining. People were flat out provoking people who were unhappy about the movie and saying that THEY were toxic.

So when you have that sort of environment and the director tweets what he tweeted day in and out and releases a "your Snoke theory sucks" photo or someone directly associated with Lucasfilm tweeting that "you have no ownership over this property and you're not even a customer of ours if you buy a Star Wars product" then yea I kinda put some of the blame on the company for this environment.

I don't think it's an apology or an admission that anyone is looking for, it's simply not fanning the flames. A simple statement "we took a risk because we felt the franchise needs to go in a particular direction and we appreciate that this is divisive and we can assure fans of the old that there's plenty of material coming for them as well" would be all most people are looking for. Why do you think fans run to Mark Hamill like a kid runs to mum after dad slaps their butt? He's the only one who can and will speak for them and actually consider them.

The thing is, most of what you're discussing came not from Disney or LFL, but from other fans who extrapolated from posts which legitimately criticized actual toxic behavior to all fans who were disappointed with the film. And yet, Disney gets the blame. I think it's fair to say that people who try to lump all dissatisfied fans in with the toxic ones are wrong, and shouldn't be doing that, but Disney isn't to blame, nor do they owe anyone a public statement of "#NotAllFans."

Hamill has also castigated the toxic fans, especially the likes of those who drove Kelly Marie Tran off of social media. He has no love for those people. I think the reason folks flock to him is his early comments about Johnson's story not sitting well with him initially, so folks who dislike the film assume he's an "ally" of theirs. Surely you've seen the stuff floating around about how we know that deep down Mark really hates the film, but he HAS to say he likes it because it's his job, but WE know better, don't we, nudge nudge wink wink.


I guess I look at it this way. A lot of the dissatisfied fans have taken to focusing their anger on Disney/LFL/Johnson, claiming that those entities have lumped all disgruntled fans in together with the most toxic of the lot. Except, that's not true. They've called out bad behavior -- rightly so, I might add -- and that's it. Other fans may have taken that and run with it, unfairly describing everyone who dislikes the film as a "manbaby," but that's not Disney or LFL or Rian Johnson's fault.

Look, I get the anger, and the sense that how could anyone view this as anything other than an abject failure if only because the film so divided the fans. I was a long-time fan of How I Met Your Mother. The finale of that show basically split the fandom in two. Many who liked the finale dismissed those who didn't as people who just wanted some dumb Disney ending, and claimed that the actual ending was "more realistic." Also, that ending sought to "subvert expectations" and (in my opinion) attempted that in an extremely ham-handed manner. Not only was it disappointing, it was poorly executed. I hated it. I still do. Even though I understand what the goal was, how the show was structured, etc., I still just think it was really poorly done, separate from and in addition to my baseline dislike of the end result. And yeah, it pissed me off when people would dismiss what I thought were substantive criticisms of the way the show was handled at the end by just saying "Whatever. You just wanted a Disney ending." What I didn't do, though, is blame CBS for not coming out and saying "We know not every fan wanted a Disney ending." Likewise, if there'd been disgruntled fans who just wanted to insult Cobie Smulders, and CBS and the show runners had decided to call out their bad behavior, I would not have assumed that they were talking about me, nor that their dismissal of fans who crapped on Cobie in any way was a dismissal of my dissatisfaction. I'd still get mad if other fans did that, but I wouldn't blame CBS. That's what I see happening here: people blaming Disney for not issuing some statement that's a caveat about their criticism of people who fully deserve to be criticized and how that doesn't apply to people who don't deserve to be criticized and aren't actually being criticized.
 
Watch it. Particularly the one about the "mama joke fixed". If you get it great, if not, no point in another 4 pages of moot discussion.

I think this is another one of those subjective things. I didn't like his edit at all. I much prefer Bob Ducsay's original edit.
 
Not LFL officially, but from those associated with LFL, from JJ to Ruin to Chuck Wendig and Andi Guitierrez etc. This article sets out the examples: https://www.google.com/amp/s/disney...ucasfilms-treatment-of-fans-under-disney/amp/

I want to share some thoughts on the whole black stormtrooper drama that happened with TFA. And why it is that people like John and others immediately said it was racist thing.

Firstly, people in Hollywood are ingrained to think that way. Some from practically from birth. They look at everything with the mindset of this person is racist that person isn't.

Secondly they assume that the fans know that the Jango Clones are all dead. And the sequel trilogy is some 60ish years after the battle of Geonosis. They assume that they know that kind of info. So when people start complaining about a black stormtrooper. Immediately their minds are thinking that these people are racist trolls.
 
This just occurred to me... This film was so incompatible that they didn’t even have a Lego video game made


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