Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%

  • Total voters
    578
So I take issue with Rian Johnson wanting to "make Star Wars his own vision" and the arguments for that. I think there is a responsibility to the fans of a franchise when you are expanding on that, and sometimes you have to put your own ideas aside to create a film that fits squarely into what has already been established. If you want to create something that is "your own vision" then you make a standalone movie. I love indie movies, but I don't want that sort of art style in Star Wars. If I recall correctly, John Boyega equated TLJ to an indie movie... and that actually makes sense. I can appreciate vision. I just don't think vision should trump what is established in Star Wars.

*Also, and always, sloppy writing. I think trying to meld the two creates sloppy disjointed scenes and characters because the two film styles are so dramatically different.
 
I don't necessarily have a problem with Snoke being dispensed so quickly and easily, as I've seen other people of the same mindset. I have a problem with it from a storytelling standpoint, and here's why...

The story is about Rey and Kylo, which was made even more evident with the release of TLJ. We are following Kylo, who is incredibly conflicted and in a state of flux throughout both movies. We know little bits of his background, but we don't ultimately have the pieces to tie the story together. We are told that Snoke had the ability to turn Ben into Kylo. We have that given to us on a platter in TFA. TLJ undermines that with the flashbacks, basically placing the blame on Luke. So not only are we left with conflicting accounts of why Kylo is Kylo, but we never got any explanation into Snoke's ability to control Kylo.
 
Rian: "[Snoke's origin] just wasn't a question that I felt very interested in, mostly because I didn't feel like the character of Rey would be interested in it. It's not Snoke's story..."

Also Rian: "[Rose] felt like a character who didn’t belong in a Star Wars movie. And it appealed to me.”
That bit about Rose stuck out to me as well.
But at the end of the day it was Mark again who captured it: "If it turns out great it's only because of him. If it doesn't it's also his fault :)".


I don't necessarily have a problem with Snoke being dispensed so quickly and easily, as I've seen other people of the same mindset. I have a problem with it from a storytelling standpoint, and here's why...

The story is about Rey and Kylo, which was made even more evident with the release of TLJ. We are following Kylo, who is incredibly conflicted and in a state of flux throughout both movies. We know little bits of his background, but we don't ultimately have the pieces to tie the story together. We are told that Snoke had the ability to turn Ben into Kylo. We have that given to us on a platter in TFA. TLJ undermines that with the flashbacks, basically placing the blame on Luke. So not only are we left with conflicting accounts of why Kylo is Kylo, but we never got any explanation into Snoke's ability to control Kylo.

That's a good point and I agree. I absolutely didn't mind Snoke going, but I rolled my eyes when it came around to "well, it really was a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiig misunderstanding between them two...". I liked the way it was presented though, the three different versions but the idea again was like, why...?

Also worth noting Rian wrote Snoke’s story for TLJ based entirely on JJ’s script, not the finished film.

That's a fair point. And this is exactly why a script revision would have been a good idea instead of running with a first draft.
 
I find it ridiculous that if Snoke was powerful enough to bridge Ben and Rey's minds together then why the hell couldn't he see that Ben was about to cut him in half?

Kylo was thinking “turn the saber” and he turned his own to prepare to strike down Rey but at the same time was turning the Graflex on the throne. He obfuscated his true intention that way.
 
I find it ridiculous that if Snoke was powerful enough to bridge Ben and Rey's minds together then why the hell couldn't he see that Ben was about to cut him in half?

To be fair the same applies to Palps...

Kylo was thinking “turn the saber” and he turned his own to prepare to strike down Rey but at the same time was turning the Graflex on the throne. He obfuscated his true intention that way.

yeo, that’s true. To the point where this double-cross/play on words was so obvious I expected something else to happen. He was basically spelling it out.
 
I understand that but if he could see directly into Ben's mind could he not see that it was Ben's intention to betray him? I mean all Snoke did was belittle him at the beginning of the movie and abuse him. It would stand to reason that Snoke would suspect Kylo's attempt on his life at some point. All other Sith/ Dark side users before had the knowledge that their apprentices intended to take the leadership position by killing their master. Snoke's tirade about not being able to be betrayed and then immediately getting killed made him look like such an amateur.

If you had the ability to look directly into someone's mind and could reach across the galaxy to connect Ben's mind with Rey's then it wouldn't be far fetched to think that hey, maybe I should watch out because this kid is going to try and kill me. Regardless of whether Ben was turning his own weapon on Rey and the Graflex at the same time, it just seems like a waste of what could have potentially been a more interesting confrontation. Nope, lets just kill this guy off and get that out of the way.

Which also begs the question, what the hell is so appealing about the dark side anyway? What could Snoke have possibly tempted Ben with to make him want to switch sides in the first place? I hoped this new trilogy might actually explore that a bit so we could understand it better but alas it was another missed opportunity. Lucas tried in the prequels, albeit poor execution, but at least he gave reason as to why Anakin turned.

Death toll of major players in the the ST:

Han Solo
Luke Skywalker
Carrie Fisher is gone so that means no General Leia anymore.
Admiral Ackbar -which was completely pointless because it happened off screen and if they were going to bother even doing that, at least show it or better yet just let his character live and help lead the attack on the First Order along with the new heroes.
Admiral Holdo
Supreme Leader Snoke
Captain Phasma

R2-D2 is relegated to being stuffed in the corner and covered with rag
C-3PO has no more than a truncated cameo or two for no reason at all
Chewbacca is only there to pilot the Falcon when Rey can't (and to eat Porgs)

Lando and Mon Mothma are nowhere to be found. I would have expected to see them at some point considering that they were both instrumental in the destruction of the Empire.

Is the Original Trilogy so bad in Rian Johnson's mind that he had to do away with nearly all of it?

It's just sad. All of it. Sad. I really wanted to love the new character and was excited to get to know them better after TFA but I just don't care about them anymore. Not after what happened in TLJ.
 
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Johnson was all about "subverting expectations" and by having Snoke die in the most obvious way that was spelled out for the audience just seemed silly to me. Again, it's not like it really matters anyway given how the rest of the movie turned out. It's just all stupid.

No we didn't have a total back story for the Emperor, but at least he wasn't bragging about how he couldn't be betrayed before Vader threw him down the pit.

Again, none of this matters. The movie sucked overall.
 
I find it ridiculous that if Snoke was powerful enough to bridge Ben and Rey's minds together then why the hell couldn't he see that Ben was about to cut him in half?
More than just predicting it, if Snoke can lift people like ragdolls a mile away with a mere thought, why not hold down the live saber on your armrest with a few thousand pounds of Force pressure?

It does remind me of the scene in ROTJ, except if Rian had directed that, Luke would have just killed the Emperor. No!!! The Emperor is a badass because he knows he has nothing to fear by leaving the saber there. That's where the excitement and tension is. He's not an idiot, he's already calculated the outcomes in his mind. Instead of giving us some real dramatic tension with the best villain we have seen in two movies, Rian makes him an idiot and we are left wondering how Snoke controlled the FO all this time if he's such a chump. Serkis is an actor that could have chewed a lot of scenery with the right dialog but Rian was more fascinated with exploring the implications of ForceFacetime™© than playing with his big bad.
 
I have posted this information before but I think it bears repeating in he light that some still are posting YouTube commentary videos about the financial returns of this film as well as the debate. Also, I have had opened a very quality Merlot and feel sporty...

ESB's box office was 68% of ANH's.

AOTC's was 70% of TPM's.


TLJ's was 66% of TFA's.


So that's the simple math, not adjusted for inflation. Regarding ESB, my own experience was the film was very divisive, I recall at the age 12-13 a lot of debate with my friends as to what this film meant to the overall Saga. Personally I didn't like the Han/Leia match up and Luke's failure at the end. He was my hero and it broke my young heart he didn't get the girl and was beaten down at the end. If I had the internet in 1981, no doubt I would have had issues. Maybe we should all just let this play out and see what comes. We can all like or dislike the result but let's all accept the SW isn't dead, it's just different.
 
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