Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
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laszlo
Sr Member
Yeah, me too! I mean I was in a pretty abusive relationship during the prequel era, I got knocked about emotionally and intellectually, patronised, force fed empty premises, but I knew we could still work something out together. George was at least gentle and commanding in his abusive stewardship. Rian's behaviour made me sit up and say out loud "NO MORE, I DON"T NEED TO BE TREATED LIKE THIS ANYMORE! I HAVE VALUE!
astroboy
Master Member
That was heartbreaking. I felt like mark wanted to pick him up and throw him down a reactor shaft
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Dontdissthefett
Well-Known Member
George Lucas had some silly ideas with the PT but he always respected the legacy of the universe he created. His continued story came from a place of love. RJ write his “movie”, if you want to call it that, with not love and respect for what had come before but rather contempt. He didn’t respect the lore, the history, or the legacy of the universe or characters. Mark Hamill was ashamed of what he was a part of, and I can see why
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Nitz146
Well-Known Member
I dont think RJ had this ST story at heart. I think he saw this as his opportunity for his big break and wanted to show the world what he could do. He probably felt that trying to answer all the questions set up by JJ would hold him down and hinder his creativity so he decided to just toss it out and run with his own story. Meanwhile, he divided the fan base and broke the heart of many fans who were expecting a great if not good sequel to TFA. This is what happens when you take a relatively unknown, small time writer/director and throw him up on the biggest stage in the world. It's himself first, SW second. If your going to hire these kind of people you NEED to have someone overseeing the project to make sure everything gels and follows the first movie like a 3 part series should. You dont just let him have free will.
You would think, but I believe Disney threw all that out when Lucas made his suggestions of where he had wanted the story to go, and they basically said “thanks but no thanks... we got things from here”.
sztriki
Sr Member
Mmm, this is where I tend to disagree with a lot of people, and it's probably me, but considering how the Special Editions (97, DVD, BluRay) came out and the fact that he personally made sure that the theatrical versions are not to be seen in HD ever does not prove too much love from Lucas. Not to mention that decisions in the PT (midichlorians, Vader building 3PO, Yoda flipping around) DID do a lot of disrespect to what the "lore, history and legacy" was..
This. After watching the Director and the Jedi twice it's apparent to me that the movie's producer was more in charge with logistics and the budget rather than anything creatively. He's always involved in discussions about "how much this set will cost", "can we afford this or should we reuse another set" or "how are we going to transport this there", whereas he keeps saying that he just left Rian write and direct whatever he wanted because Rian was under a lot of pressure so he needed encouragement and nothing but encouragement and support. I know moviemaking is business...but compare this to Gary Kurtz.
Greenie
Sr Member
Only, they haven’t. IMO, they should have graciously excepted George’s treatment for VII,VIII and IX and used it to complete the Skywalker saga as envisioned by its creator or just moved on without the OT heroes.
Maybe if they get a chance, they could complete Beethoven’s unfinished symphony with a drum machine and some vocals by Taylor Swift!
If Disney could make a buck off of it, they totally would.
Then they would release three film versions of the song.... one in traditional animation, one in computer animation and one in live action. Then let us not forget that there will be sequels to the symphony. :lol
Nitz146
Well-Known Member
I think the story group does still do this to a certain extent. To me, it seems that they are the damage control group now, where as they try to fix plot holes and fill in important missing information after the fact through supplemental material.
I've seen that video before. I almost want to cry. Mark is simply devastated and it's so obvious how arrogant Rian Johnson truly is. It's one thing to have a vision for a film but movie making is a collaboration, not a dictatorship. I haven't seen The Director and the Jedi in it's entirety, but from what I have seen of it and what I've read about it, it's clear that Mark was trying to sway Johnson's decisions while remaining professional and Johnson stuck to his "vision".
Mark has lived and breathed Star Wars and the character of Luke Skywalker for over 40 years but it's apparent that Johnson doesn't give a **** about that, or the fans and neither do the heads of Lucasfilm. You ****ed up Johnson. Bad. Like ruined the Saga bad. Own it. But no, we see interview after interview of him bragging about what a piece of **** movie he's made and how he's "changed the face of Star Wars."
The story group is no better than anyone else at Lucasfilm. They aren't at fault per se but they aren't helping matters either.
I can't stand the arrogance. That's why I refuse to buy the movie. I saw it once and that was enough. The Star Wars Saga began with A New Hope and ended with Return of the Jedi. Period.
Just when I think I can let this damn thing go, I see interviews like this and it just reopens the wound. I swear if I get to meet Mark Hamill in person again at a convention, I will ask him if it's alright if I give him a hug. I met him one time and I hope to meet him again. He's one of my heroes.
Mark has lived and breathed Star Wars and the character of Luke Skywalker for over 40 years but it's apparent that Johnson doesn't give a **** about that, or the fans and neither do the heads of Lucasfilm. You ****ed up Johnson. Bad. Like ruined the Saga bad. Own it. But no, we see interview after interview of him bragging about what a piece of **** movie he's made and how he's "changed the face of Star Wars."
The story group is no better than anyone else at Lucasfilm. They aren't at fault per se but they aren't helping matters either.
I can't stand the arrogance. That's why I refuse to buy the movie. I saw it once and that was enough. The Star Wars Saga began with A New Hope and ended with Return of the Jedi. Period.
Just when I think I can let this damn thing go, I see interviews like this and it just reopens the wound. I swear if I get to meet Mark Hamill in person again at a convention, I will ask him if it's alright if I give him a hug. I met him one time and I hope to meet him again. He's one of my heroes.
This.
Whenever I see a film that does not significantly match my expectations I sometimes end up thinking "Is it me? Have I just seen so many many films now that the whole experience has become jaded?"
My reaction to TLJ was so strongly negative at times I thought it was down to me, to my expectations being so incredibly high that they could never be matched ,or, that as a fan for so many decades I was simply stuck in my OT "phase". I saw it once and have almost entirely dismissed it from my mind. I saw the DVD for sale and have not had the slightest urge to buy and rewatch it. I've completely rejected it.
And I have to admit that worried me.
Then I watch a Marvel movie.
"The Black Panther" was a great fun,with strong interesting characters and an involving story,which at its very core was nothing new under the sun at all, but with an excellent cast and that Marvel scripting magic it made for a hugely entertaining cinema experience. It gave me a bounce in my step just to have watched it, left me happy to think about it and recall some of the scenes and lines and keen to watch it again.
"Infinity War" has affected me even more deeply. Sitting here typing this there are moments in this film, so many of them, where I just find myself wanting to replay them again and again like on a video loop . Not all of them are happy, but they have, at the very least, the quality of emotional weight and meaning that make them worth remembering.
And its not just the hugely impressive action set pieces , its very much about those quiet scenes with Thanos and Gamora, Vision and Wanda , Tony and Peter that I can't seem to shake. Then theres those flashes of humor between Thor , Quill and Rocket (Rabbit!) Dr Strange and Iron Man and so on. The echoes of those character moments, of their words, the lives they lived on the screen makes them utterly memorable.
They have an aspect of truth to them, that kind of heroic respect thats essentially to any movie, particularly one of this genre, where the audience wants to involve ourselves in their stories. Hell even the villianous Thanos manages to capture that interest in some heart breaking moments, so successfully that I actually had "Sympathy for the devil" for a moment.
Thats what Marvel does so well , thats what the new SW and DC movies mostly have missing (with the odd exception like R1 or Wonder Woman).They lack the respect in the written story that must be paid to the characters for the audience to like them and love it.
Its that factor which, if they get it right, the audience will entirely appreciate unreservedly and its that which gets them to automatically buy into it without even thinking, rather than instinctively reject it.
There were barely any moments in "Infinity War" that made me feel it was not "authentic" and plenty that dragged me in even deeper. I know many of the characters wil return for IWII but that in no way lessened the impact.
I spent most of TLJ just being taken out of the movie by character moments which felt utterly at odds with the people I'd known them to be, with duff lines, crass humour and juvernile plot decisions . It was like discovering the people you'd liked for years were just a bunch of jerks. So I don't want anything to do with it or them.
The MCU movies are often knocked for the fact they are "churned out by the Marvel Machine" on a regular basis with little variation. I find it a minor miracle that this huge series can be so fantastically consistent in the shear quality of the films that they make ,and yet also retain such a strong sense of individual character and story, time and time again.
Kevin Feige , his writing and directing teams and everyone involved achieve this by treating everybody as equals with people who want to share in their enjoyment of this universe, in its treatment of its heros and villians ,from every age and corner of this globe.
Its exact that which gives us a reason to sit ,enjoy and remember ,sometimes with pleasure, others with sadness the films that they make.
I do wish that the makers of the next SW movies manage to do that again.
Whenever I see a film that does not significantly match my expectations I sometimes end up thinking "Is it me? Have I just seen so many many films now that the whole experience has become jaded?"
My reaction to TLJ was so strongly negative at times I thought it was down to me, to my expectations being so incredibly high that they could never be matched ,or, that as a fan for so many decades I was simply stuck in my OT "phase". I saw it once and have almost entirely dismissed it from my mind. I saw the DVD for sale and have not had the slightest urge to buy and rewatch it. I've completely rejected it.
And I have to admit that worried me.
Then I watch a Marvel movie.
"The Black Panther" was a great fun,with strong interesting characters and an involving story,which at its very core was nothing new under the sun at all, but with an excellent cast and that Marvel scripting magic it made for a hugely entertaining cinema experience. It gave me a bounce in my step just to have watched it, left me happy to think about it and recall some of the scenes and lines and keen to watch it again.
"Infinity War" has affected me even more deeply. Sitting here typing this there are moments in this film, so many of them, where I just find myself wanting to replay them again and again like on a video loop . Not all of them are happy, but they have, at the very least, the quality of emotional weight and meaning that make them worth remembering.
And its not just the hugely impressive action set pieces , its very much about those quiet scenes with Thanos and Gamora, Vision and Wanda , Tony and Peter that I can't seem to shake. Then theres those flashes of humor between Thor , Quill and Rocket (Rabbit!) Dr Strange and Iron Man and so on. The echoes of those character moments, of their words, the lives they lived on the screen makes them utterly memorable.
They have an aspect of truth to them, that kind of heroic respect thats essentially to any movie, particularly one of this genre, where the audience wants to involve ourselves in their stories. Hell even the villianous Thanos manages to capture that interest in some heart breaking moments, so successfully that I actually had "Sympathy for the devil" for a moment.
Thats what Marvel does so well , thats what the new SW and DC movies mostly have missing (with the odd exception like R1 or Wonder Woman).They lack the respect in the written story that must be paid to the characters for the audience to like them and love it.
Its that factor which, if they get it right, the audience will entirely appreciate unreservedly and its that which gets them to automatically buy into it without even thinking, rather than instinctively reject it.
There were barely any moments in "Infinity War" that made me feel it was not "authentic" and plenty that dragged me in even deeper. I know many of the characters wil return for IWII but that in no way lessened the impact.
I spent most of TLJ just being taken out of the movie by character moments which felt utterly at odds with the people I'd known them to be, with duff lines, crass humour and juvernile plot decisions . It was like discovering the people you'd liked for years were just a bunch of jerks. So I don't want anything to do with it or them.
The MCU movies are often knocked for the fact they are "churned out by the Marvel Machine" on a regular basis with little variation. I find it a minor miracle that this huge series can be so fantastically consistent in the shear quality of the films that they make ,and yet also retain such a strong sense of individual character and story, time and time again.
Kevin Feige , his writing and directing teams and everyone involved achieve this by treating everybody as equals with people who want to share in their enjoyment of this universe, in its treatment of its heros and villians ,from every age and corner of this globe.
Its exact that which gives us a reason to sit ,enjoy and remember ,sometimes with pleasure, others with sadness the films that they make.
I do wish that the makers of the next SW movies manage to do that again.
Greenie
Sr Member
Well said. :cheers
OldKen
Master Member
Wow. So the TLJ supporters said that the same people voted over and over to make it seem like more people shared their hate. But the poll here can only be voted in once right?
those numbers are not good to be on this site... I think there are more people on the RPF that disliked this movie more than any prequel... and that says something...
those numbers are not good to be on this site... I think there are more people on the RPF that disliked this movie more than any prequel... and that says something...
Jaitea
Master Member
I agree entirely with this post.....& I'm glad it isn't "just me" either
Luke saying "This is not going to go the way you think" is very apt in the Infinity War film.....after seeing trailers & the locations, I had a mental image & expectation how the film would go.....but there were continuous jaw dropping unexpected events in the film
TLJ is honestly a very amateur attempt of a film.....much like the DC universe
J
Nitz146
Well-Known Member
Well i wish that i could take my vote back. I voted right after I saw it and I gave it a positive vote. Then once I had some time to digest what just happened, the movie started to fall apart. Strange how it had that effect.
I also learned today that Rotten Tomatoes doesn't count your vote if you rate it 1/2 stars. I was going through the reviews there and there are a ton of 1/2 star reviews. I also came across this guy who statistically included the 1/2 star reviews and it dropped the audiences score from 47% to 24%. Not sure if this video has been posted before so I apologize if it has. (Warning: There are some F bombs dropped at the end of the video)
https://youtu.be/CWPAbKEmd5M
d_jedi1
Sr Member
Agreed, if I could have changed my vote after reflecting on the film, it would not have been "It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.".
At the time, I was attempting to digest everything and I knew that I liked the way it looked, I liked the individual scenes on their own but as I reflected on it, my feelings towards it changed.
I still think that as disconnected scenes, they were ok but they didn't make a coherent story and NOBODY acted like themselves. It was like invasion of the body snatchers.. they looked like my "friends" but those were NOT my friends.
One example of this I noticed recently: in TLJ, Finn says "Impossible!" when hyperspace tracking is mentioned, but later on the Supremacy when Rose says they are running out of time, he says the tracker is located just ahead. Pretty cut and dried plot hole. In the novelization, it's changed so that Poe is the one who says "impossible". Hard to argue that they made an error, considering they had to change Poe's dialog to make the conversation flow with him taking Finn's line.
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