Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%

  • Total voters
    578
I'm not trying to convince anyone to hate the movie. I'm just baffled. And pissed off that they would allow this to happen.
Totally agree. You can see this sad, troubled, beaten down Mark Hamill, and it's heartbreaking. Right in the first sequence when they are rehearsing the fight, it just feels wrong as hell. Rey tracked him down... to belittle him? To hit an old man in the back and shout at him about how good Kylo is?

 
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Ryan discusses his feeling towards Snoke in a new interview with What Culture.

"You have to remember I wrote the movie before The Force Awakens came out, so I didn't write in the context of 'oh all these people on Reddit are writing their theories on how he's Darth Plagueis' or whatever. It's not like I read all those theories and decided to defy them,” Johnson says, defending himself against rabid fans hurt by the fact that the director didn’t go with any of their Snoke theories online.
Johnson just simply wasn’t as invested with Snoke as he was with Kylo Ren, seeing that the estranged son of Han Solo (Harrison Ford) would be perfect as one of the main points of interest in the film.
"To me, first of all, it just wasn't a question that I felt very interested in, mostly because I didn't feel like the character of Rey would be interested in it. It's not Snoke's story, I guess, so in that way he's very similar to the Emperor in the first trilogy, where we know exactly what we need to know about him. He's the powerful, shadowy emperor behind Vader in the first one, and now Kylo in this one.
Johnson of course makes sense. Though fans would have wanted to have Snoke last longer or to have some sort of long exposition explaining where Snoke came from, it just wouldn’t fit in The Last Jedi. If the original trilogy didn’t make room explaining Darth Sidous, then why should The Last Jedi?"
 
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Ryan discusses his feeling towards Snoke in a new interview with What Culture.

"You have to remember I wrote the movie before The Force Awakens came out, so I didn't write in the context of 'oh all these people on Reddit are writing their theories on how he's Darth Plagueis' or whatever. It's not like I read all those theories and decided to defy them,” Johnson says, defending himself against rabid fans hurt by the fact that the director didn’t go with any of their Snoke theories online.
Johnson just simply wasn’t as invested with Snoke as he was with Kylo Ren, seeing that the estranged son of Han Solo (Harrison Ford) would be perfect as one of the main points of interest in the film.
"To me, first of all, it just wasn't a question that I felt very interested in, mostly because I didn't feel like the character of Rey would be interested in it. It's not Snoke's story, I guess, so in that way he's very similar to the Emperor in the first trilogy, where we know exactly what we need to know about him. He's the powerful, shadowy emperor behind Vader in the first one, and now Kylo in this one.
Johnson of course makes sense. Though fans would have wanted to have Snoke last longer or to have some sort of long exposition explaining where Snoke came from, it just wouldn’t fit in The Last Jedi. If the original trilogy didn’t make room explaining Darth Sidous, then why should The Last Jedi?"
I actually agree with him there. But I really couldn't care less about Snoke to begin with.
 
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I think it's also worth noting that Rian wrote this story before TFA came out and so it is in no way a reflection on fan reaction to TFA, it wasn't an F-U to JJ.
 
It's not a reaction to fan theories, but he is saying that he wasn't personally interested in the main antagonist in TFA, and this obviously influenced his decision to kill him off. Which to me, is the problem... get someone who is interested in what JJ laid down to continue that story. Just because he didn't like Snoke is not a good reason for killing him off, it feels truncated and it feels disconnected from TFA, because JJ obviously didn't regard Snoke as some boring one-note villain.
 
It's not a reaction to fan theories, but he is saying that he wasn't personally interested in the main antagonist in TFA, and this obviously influenced his decision to kill him off. Which to me, is the problem... get someone who is interested in what JJ laid down to continue that story. Just because he didn't like Snoke is not a good reason for killing him off, it feels truncated and it feels disconnected from TFA, because JJ obviously didn't regard Snoke as some boring one-note villain.

But JJ also loved Rian's script, so it's a circle that can't be squared. I don't think JJ cared about Snoke or Rey's parents beyond what he set up. I don't think he had a plan, he simply tee'd up the ball.
 
:facepalmJust Do not see how anyone, yet alone a true Star Wars fan can possibly defend what Ruin Johnson gave us.
RianJohnsonSucks.jpg
 
Ryan discusses his feeling towards Snoke in a new interview with What Culture.

"You have to remember I wrote the movie before The Force Awakens came out, so I didn't write in the context of 'oh all these people on Reddit are writing their theories on how he's Darth Plagueis' or whatever. It's not like I read all those theories and decided to defy them,” Johnson says, defending himself against rabid fans hurt by the fact that the director didn’t go with any of their Snoke theories online.
Johnson just simply wasn’t as invested with Snoke as he was with Kylo Ren, seeing that the estranged son of Han Solo (Harrison Ford) would be perfect as one of the main points of interest in the film.
"To me, first of all, it just wasn't a question that I felt very interested in, mostly because I didn't feel like the character of Rey would be interested in it. It's not Snoke's story, I guess, so in that way he's very similar to the Emperor in the first trilogy, where we know exactly what we need to know about him. He's the powerful, shadowy emperor behind Vader in the first one, and now Kylo in this one.
Johnson of course makes sense. Though fans would have wanted to have Snoke last longer or to have some sort of long exposition explaining where Snoke came from, it just wouldn’t fit in The Last Jedi. If the original trilogy didn’t make room explaining Darth Sidous, then why should The Last Jedi?"

I don't know if that's really fair though. Snoke is the one who interjected himself into, manipulated, and destroyed the Solo family - Rian personally may not have "been invested" who Snoke was, but that doesn't mean who he actually is/was should be so casually distilled down to, "eh, not interested." A big enough deal about him was made about him in TFA that it makes perfect sense why some were disappointed with TLJ...

I just think dismissing it doesn't do him or the film any favors...
 
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I don't know if that's really fair though. Snoke is the one who interjected himself into, manipulated, and destroyed the Solo family - Rian personally may not have "been invested" who Snoke was, but that doesn't mean who he actually is/was should be so casually distilled down to, "eh, not interested." A big enough deal about him was made about him in TFA that I get why some were disappointed with TLJ...

Me too but it doesn't break the film for me.
 
But JJ also loved Rian's script, so it's a circle that can't be squared. I don't think JJ cared about Snoke or Rey's parents beyond what he set up. I don't think he had a plan, he simply tee'd up the ball.
So he wrote drafts for VIII and IX(according to Daisy) but he had no plan? I think JJ loved Rian's script just like Mark Hamill loves what he did to Luke, or like Lucas loved TFA. They are all working in this industry, it's best to just smile and move on and do your job.
 
Ryan discusses his feeling towards Snoke in a new interview with What Culture.

"You have to remember I wrote the movie before The Force Awakens came out, so I didn't write in the context of 'oh all these people on Reddit are writing their theories on how he's Darth Plagueis' or whatever. It's not like I read all those theories and decided to defy them,” Johnson says, defending himself against rabid fans hurt by the fact that the director didn’t go with any of their Snoke theories online.
Johnson just simply wasn’t as invested with Snoke as he was with Kylo Ren, seeing that the estranged son of Han Solo (Harrison Ford) would be perfect as one of the main points of interest in the film.
"To me, first of all, it just wasn't a question that I felt very interested in, mostly because I didn't feel like the character of Rey would be interested in it. It's not Snoke's story, I guess, so in that way he's very similar to the Emperor in the first trilogy, where we know exactly what we need to know about him. He's the powerful, shadowy emperor behind Vader in the first one, and now Kylo in this one.
Johnson of course makes sense. Though fans would have wanted to have Snoke last longer or to have some sort of long exposition explaining where Snoke came from, it just wouldn’t fit in The Last Jedi. If the original trilogy didn’t make room explaining Darth Sidous, then why should The Last Jedi?"

That's just bad storytelling. Not sure how anyone could see it any other way. The comparison to the Emperor makes it even worse.

It's one thing to have a movie where the villain has mysterious or unexplained origins. It's VERY different to have a film series where we've actually been following the major events of the setting for the last 60+ years and a NEW villain comes along and no explanation is given. You honestly have to be a special kind of obtuse not to see the HUGE difference between the two.

edit: I feel like maybe I need to clarify since I'm not disagreeing with a random fan, but the actual director of the film.

But this isn't part 1. (even though a New hope is called Episode 4 now, it was really part 1 at the time and is being treated as part 1 in this discussion by both sides)

When a story begins, some elements do not require backstory. Maybe they can hint at future backstory, but it's not needed up front. We didn't really need to know right away who Vader was. He was in black and choking people, we all knew he was the bad guy. Good enough. Same with the Emperor. It was an Empire. It was evil, it had an Emperor. He was evil. That's all we needed to know, move on.

But this is part EIGHT. We've been following the story for 40 years REAL TIME, and over 60+ story time. We still don't really need to know Qui Gonn's backstory...he was trained by Dooku wasn't he? Not important. Also don't really need to know where Yoda came from. Not really needed.

But a NEW major player on the same level as the Emperor or Luke? Yes, the story does need some explanation, even if the guy getting paid to write it is bored that afternoon.
 
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I'm almost in tears watching him kneel there and not getting up. It wouldn't surprise me if he was overcome with emotion for having to part with Luke after 40 years. So sad.
I mean, damn. Rian talks about being a fan, this being a dream come true, and how insecure he is about achieving his vision. And yet he has Mark Hamill telling him he fundamentally disagrees with his take, and his response is basically "This is my story. I will try to explain it to you again why it has to be this way." When 4 other directors have been tossed off the ship, scripts thrown out, Solo and R1 partially reshot, what harm is there in knocking on Kathy Kennedy's door and say, "Hey, this just doesn't feel right."? That's what Kasdan did to get Lord and Miller axed. Personally, I wouldn't have the heart to ignore Mark on this. I know it's a huge production and they are on a tight schedule, but it seems like Mark is the only person in the room who actually spoke up and voiced that it felt off. Everyone else was like, "Rian has delivered a new, bold vision!"
 
Though fans would have wanted to have Snoke last longer or to have some sort of long exposition explaining where Snoke came from, it just wouldn’t fit in The Last Jedi. If the original trilogy didn’t make room explaining Darth Sidous, then why should The Last Jedi?"

I also kinda disagree with this - doesn't have to be "some sort of long exposition" - coulda just been a single line of dialogue:

INT. SNOKE'S THRONE ROOM - CONT.

Kylo disengages his saber. Rey queries him with a look as they stand over Snoke's cleaved body.

REY​
Who was he?

KYLO​
The First Order tracked down a small group of Sith priests who thought they could clone the Emperor. No matter how close they came, cloning a Jedi or Sith is next to impossible - the force always pushes back.
(re: Snoke's remains)
Snoke was their most successful attempt.

I know it's cheesy and fan-fictiony - but just a counterargument that there always had to be some "long, drawn out exposition" - lots of ways to get around that.
 
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I also kinda disagree with this - doesn't have to be "some sort of long exposition" - coulda just been a single line of dialogue:

INT. SNOKE'S THRONE ROOM - CONT.

Kylo disengages his saber. Rey queries him with a look as they stand over Snoke's cleaved body.

REY​
Who was he?

KYLO​
The First Order tracked down a small group of Sith priests who thought they could clone the Emperor. No matter how close they came, cloning a Jedi or Sith is next to impossible - the force always pushes back.
(re: Snoke's remains)
Snoke was their most successful attempt.

I know it's cheesy and fan-fictiony - but just a counterargument that there always had to be some "long, drawn out exposition" - lots of ways to get around that.

I actually REALLY like this, it fits....it feels right...and it adds to the SW universe as a whole.

Rich
 
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I also kinda disagree with this - doesn't have to be "some sort of long exposition" - coulda just been a single line of dialogue:

INT. SNOKE'S THRONE ROOM - CONT.

Kylo disengages his saber. Rey queries him with a look as they stand over Snoke's cleaved body.

REY​
Who was he?

KYLO​
The First Order tracked down a small group of Sith priests who thought they could clone the Emperor. No matter how close they came, cloning a Jedi or Sith is next to impossible - the force always pushes back.
(re: Snoke's remains)
Snoke was their most successful attempt.

I know it's cheesy and fan-fictiony - but just a counterargument that there always had to be some "long, drawn out exposition" - lots of ways to get around that.


This is is spot on. It would also answer the obvious question of why Sidious didn’t clone himself or a brand new Vader or an army of force users.
Caring about the whole story rather than RJ’s selfish singular misguided ideas.
The guy is a ****.
 
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