Poll: What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

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  1. Jaitea's Avatar
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    3 Days Ago  May 17, 2018, 5:11 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4451

    Bryancd said: View Post
    Yes, hiding behind fake names and avatars with pure anoynmity to tell people you don't know they have no taste is brave.
    Thanks Bryan

    But listening to the main criticism of the film, as far as you see it,....what do you think is great about the film,....why do you think people are divided?

    What do you think of those who are unhappy?

    I asked Solo4114 a while ago something similar,..I really would like to know what you think of the issues that people find with the movie

    J
  2. Bryancd's Avatar
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    3 Days Ago  May 17, 2018, 5:33 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4452

    Jaitea said: View Post
    Thanks Bryan

    But listening to the main criticism of the film, as far as you see it,....what do you think is great about the film,....why do you think people are divided?

    What do you think of those who are unhappy?

    I asked Solo4114 a while ago something similar,..I really would like to know what you think of the issues that people find with the movie

    J
    I completely understand why people are upset regarding Luke. I found it very challenging to pivot so much from what I thought Luke would be so many years post ROTJ. I was always willing to accept a Luke who didn't do what was shown in the old EU but certainly never imagined the he could become so removed from everything. Luke considering killing Ben is both in and out of character for him, that's a tough point of contention where I can see both sides.

    I mentioned recently, TLJ is a chore to watch in many respects. It has a lot of heavy moments that are dark and not a lot fun sometimes.

    The stuff with Snoke, yes, it did turn out to be a whole lot to do about nothing and again I can see people feeling short changed regarding that. I was never very invested in his mystery myself. Now we start to get into the weeds of things like Canto Bite, space Leia, Holdo, etc. and again, all these aspects of the film are fair for critique.

    So I don't brook argument with anyone being critical of all of the above. FYI, I do not like the Force projecting thing at all, that was a convenient contrivance.

    I did like the film very much because I am very invested in the new characters and for me, the movie moved them forward into interesting areas I want to see more of. I really like Rey and Po in this movie and feel invested in their character journeys. I'm excited about where they can take this in IX.

    My biggest issue with people who don't like the film has nothing to do with their criticism of the film itself, it's this spill over into claims that Rian Johnson hates Star Wars or doesn't understand it. That Disney and Lucasfilm is simply trying to wring money out of the franchise with no care or consideration for the content. The people who are making these films care very deeply for what they are doing. We can debate how effective they have been but any failures have been due to choices made with the best intentions. Fandom toxicity somehow moved beyond the film and is now targeting it's creators in a way I think is often unfair and sometimes very cruel.
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    3 Days Ago  May 17, 2018, 5:49 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4453

    And KK's attitude regarding the very people who have supported this franchise for 40 plus years.
    That's ok ?. The issue in my perspective can be as simple as looking within Disney's own brands.

    For example, Marvel under Feige. Clear direction geared toward future growth. Give the audience some of what they need sprinkled
    with the unexpected. Satisfies old fans and creates new ones.

    Lucas film under KK. I'm running the show, now and we're gonna do what I say. Not sure where we're going, but the people
    who got us here aren't who these movies are for.

    That's not the way you run a successful prosperous business, in any environment.
  4. Jaitea's Avatar
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    3 Days Ago  May 17, 2018, 5:59 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4454

    Thanks Bryan,...you tend to come across that you love everything SW, so I am very happy that you have issues with most of the things I do too,....it's a fine balance,...when I was watching the film the first time, the little negative niggles I had were swaying my enjoyment until probably 3/4 of the way through,...up until then I was willing to forgive & move on

    The Luke thing bothered me a bit,...but I'm not as upset as the majority of hurt fans are,....It's mainly the tone of the film I don't like & I feel its a miss-step

    I feel no connection to any of the characters now,...I thought they were introduced really well in TFA,...but I thought they were poorly developed & portrayed in this last film

    J
  5. Bryancd's Avatar
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    3 Days Ago  May 17, 2018, 6:07 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4455

    Cappy said: View Post
    And KK's attitude regarding the very people who have supported this franchise for 40 plus years.
    That's ok ?. The issue in my perspective can be as simple as looking within Disney's own brands.

    For example, Marvel under Feige. Clear direction geared toward future growth. Give the audience some of what they need sprinkled
    with the unexpected. Satisfies old fans and creates new ones.

    Lucas film under KK. I'm running the show, now and we're gonna do what I say. Not sure where we're going, but the people
    who got us here aren't who these movies are for.

    That's not the way you run a successful prosperous business, in any environment.
    Again, I don't see her management style from the same perspective as you. Her career resume alone tells a far different story. George picked her to run his company for a reason. If you don't like any of the new films and look through that prism I can understand how it might seem that way, but I don't think that's the case. Also I have mentioned before, the Feige analogy doesn't really work, he's working with a very different franchise, one with decades of volumes material and storylines to pull from. The ST era of SW is being crafted from whole cloth, its harder to do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Jaitea said: View Post
    Thanks Bryan,...you tend to come across that you love everything SW, so I am very happy that you have issues with most of the things I do too,....it's a fine balance,...when I was watching the film the first time, the little negative niggles I had were swaying my enjoyment until probably 3/4 of the way through,...up until then I was willing to forgive & move on

    The Luke thing bothered me a bit,...but I'm not as upset as the majority of hurt fans are,....It's mainly the tone of the film I don't like & I feel its a miss-step

    I feel no connection to any of the characters now,...I thought they were introduced really well in TFA,...but I thought they were poorly developed & portrayed in this last film

    J
    I do love everything SW, likely to a fault. I even like the prequels very much. I approach my fandom as being a fan first and foremost, I want to have fun, enjoy the films I am given (as I have no control over them), share it with my boy, ect. I can critique them but tearing them apart is not something Im interested in.They won't all be perfect but for me they will be a chance to revisit old friends and places for a bit.
  6. RPF Premium Member Psab keel's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  May 19, 2018, 11:23 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4456

    [QUOTE=Bryancd;4463231

    Also I have mentioned before, the Feige analogy doesn't really work, he's working with a very different franchise, one with decades of volumes material and storylines to pull from. The ST era of SW is being crafted from whole cloth, its harder to do.

    My biggest issue with people who don't like the film has nothing to do with their criticism of the film itself, it's this spill over into claims that Rian Johnson hates Star Wars or doesn't understand it. That Disney and Lucasfilm is simply trying to wring money out of the franchise with no care or consideration for the content. The people who are making these films care very deeply for what they are doing. We can debate how effective they have been but any failures have been due to choices made with the best intentions. Fandom toxicity somehow moved beyond the film and is now targeting it's creators in a way I think is often unfair and sometimes very cruel.[/QUOTE]

    To your first point about the rich history that Feige draws material and ideas from regarding the Marvel movies, the same could be said of the Expanded Universe (Legends) which has been in existence for 40 years between the novels, comics, video games, cartoons, etc. There is a wealth of material that they could have adapted or borrowed from rather than have to craft everything "from scratch" with a single writer/ director. The stories didn't even have to be copied exactly but used as a starting point to develop into something new and exciting. I would have taken some of those stories over what we got and would have gladly seen some of the new characters in Rey, Poe and Finn but with different motivations and arcs.

    As far as your biggest issue with the criticisms against the heads of Lucasfilm, that is actually my biggest criticism of the new Star Wars. Despite the fact that I hate the new movies, it's actually the way Kathleen Kennedy, J.J. Abrams, and Rian Johnson have handled the critics/ unhappy fans that I have despised the most. It doesn't matter what their credentials are in Hollywood either. If you openly insult your customers you will ultimately lose their business. It doesn't matter how powerful you are as a business person and it doesn't matter how wealthy you are. You treat people with respect. Especially people who are keeping you employed.

    I found this video articulated a lot of what I have been saying too:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFaSUn9bHVw

    (some NSFW material)
  7. Sluis Van Shipyards's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  May 20, 2018, 12:39 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4457

    I saw this poster that Lucasfilm licensed for sale at Hobby Lobby and it's interesting they would make this after what they did to Luke in TLJ. Maybe that "Luke" should have had this poster?

  8. spacebob's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  May 20, 2018, 3:47 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4458

    Sluis Van Shipyards said: View Post
    I saw this poster that Lucasfilm licensed for sale at Hobby Lobby and it's interesting they would make this after what they did to Luke in TLJ. Maybe that "Luke" should have had this poster?

    https://i.imgur.com/YC8dO1L.jpg
    "They" didn't do anything to Luke in TLJ

    JJ Abrams put luke on that island.

    JJ Abrams made his character a man who had given up because the Jedi failed.

    JJ wrote that.
  9. mattycsi's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  May 20, 2018, 4:58 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4459

    spacebob said: View Post
    "They" didn't do anything to Luke in TLJ

    JJ Abrams put luke on that island.

    JJ Abrams made his character a man who had given up because the Jedi failed.

    JJ wrote that.
    No. JJ set that up. How it was handled afterwards was all Johnson.
    They could have gone a million different ways witht that. But chose the limpest route possible.
  10. spacebob's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  May 20, 2018, 5:07 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4460

    JJ put Luke on that island, yes or no?

    JJ made his character a man who had given up because the Jedi had failed, yes or no?

    These are the events of a film call the force awakens.
  11. mattycsi's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  May 20, 2018, 5:12 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4461

    JJ put him on the island after he was betrayed and attacked by Ben. Nothing in TFA said he became a whiny useless bitch. Johnson did that.

    TLJ could easily have had him be there to commune with the force and come back stronger. But he didnt, he moped and whined. All Johnson.
  12. sztriki's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  May 20, 2018, 7:05 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4462

    spacebob said: View Post
    JJ put Luke on that island, yes or no?

    JJ made his character a man who had given up because the Jedi had failed, yes or no?

    These are the events of a film call the force awakens.
    I used this example before but in a cooking contest show, MasterChef Australia there's a mystery box challenge where contestants get a box with random ingredients and other than a few staples (flour, cream, milk, eggs, vinegar) they can only use ingredients from the mystery box. The winner is the one who puts the best dish together from the secret ingredients. The best chef is the one who can adapt the setup to a good dish.
    Not to mention it is on record that JJ wanted Rey to find Luke sitting a foot above the ground in meditation and levitating huge boulders and rocks. This was changed at Rian's request after he read the script.
  13. spacebob's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  May 20, 2018, 8:10 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4463

    Believe me I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

    JJ had Luke hiding on that island for... Years and Years (important) specifically because his attempts to train Jedi, had resulted in death and destruction and the end of the Jedi.
    This is the Force Awakens yes? this is JJs film yes?

    Rian Had him there simply doing the same thing for I think...just 2 more days?

    If you problems with whiney luke started at TFA I totally get the anguish that you feel.
  14. sztriki's Avatar
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    1 Day Ago  May 20, 2018, 8:27 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4464

    spacebob said: View Post
    Believe me I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

    JJ had Luke hiding on that island for... Years and Years (important) specifically because his attempts to train Jedi, had resulted in death and destruction and the end of the Jedi.
    This is the Force Awakens yes? this is JJs film yes?

    Rian Had him there simply doing the same thing for I think...just 2 more days?

    If you problems with whiney luke started at TFA I totally get the anguish that you feel.
    Where was Luke established as whiny in TFA?
    Here's the excerpt:

    He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible... He walked away from everything. [...] The people who knew him the best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.

    That was the framework. How it was realized, played off, what actual motivations Luke's character was given is all Rian Johnson's decision. It could have been developed into a myriad of directions from that basic setup.
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    1 Day Ago  May 20, 2018, 12:29 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4465

    TFA:- JJ put Luke on that island he was looking for the first Jedi temple and was powerful in the force.
    TLJ:- RJ suppressed his abilities and made him a coward.

    The change from TFA to TLJ was at RJ's request. It is documented.

    It is not stated how long Luke was on the island. He went looking for it. It may have taken years to find. Either way, it is not known.
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    22 Hours Ago  May 20, 2018, 2:56 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4466

    spacebob said: View Post
    Believe me I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

    JJ had Luke hiding on that island for... Years and Years (important) specifically because his attempts to train Jedi, had resulted in death and destruction and the end of the Jedi.
    This is the Force Awakens yes? this is JJs film yes?

    Rian Had him there simply doing the same thing for I think...just 2 more days?
    JJ had a completely different vision for Luke than Rian did. I timestamped the video below, relevant comment is at 20:44:



    I mean, Luke is only wearing Jedi robes because TFA locked Rian into that. The very first thing Luke does is change into his potato sack hobo gear.
  17. Greenie's Avatar
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    21 Hours Ago  May 20, 2018, 3:49 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4467

    And he changes back as soon as Rey leaves(?)

    He likes to cosplay in private. ..........till Yoda catches him.
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    20 Hours Ago  May 20, 2018, 5:16 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4468

    Greenie said: View Post
    And he changes back as soon as Rey leaves(?)

    He likes to cosplay in private. ..........till Yoda catches him.
    I'm the same way.
  19. Sluis Van Shipyards's Avatar
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    17 Hours Ago  May 20, 2018, 8:10 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4469

    Actually Lucas put Luke on an island. That's one of the only details we have from what Lucas intended to do in the movie. Luke would be on an island and train a female student. So far I think that's all we know.
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    16 Hours Ago  May 20, 2018, 9:03 PM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4470

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    5 Hours Ago  May 21, 2018, 8:09 AM - Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release) #4471

    Bryancd said: View Post
    They won't all be perfect but for me they will be a chance to revisit old friends and places for a bit.
    Our old friends ain't doing so well.

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